TD's.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120248328#Comment_120248328

That's not quite the slam dunk that you think it is. You've chosen a bunch of countries that have populations multiples of times larger than our own. These things don't scale in a linear manner.

How about you check out countries with small populations than ours? For example, Malta has 10% of our population but 79 members of in its national parliament (compared to our 160). Estonia has less than a third of our population but has 101 members of their parliament.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249337#Comment_120249337

He would pay the same as any other tenant who was in receipt of the same household income.

Another aspect of this is that his employment is not permanent.

The Dail could be dissolved at any time and he may not be re-elected.

If he was forced to vacate his home and it was given to someone else he couldn't move back.

I have known a few TDs who lived in modest houses despite sitting in the Dail for many years.

They were happy to remain in the communities they knew and had no desire to move.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249937#Comment_120249937

Yes, the idea that they should move out is a little weird. By continuing to live in the social housing, Brady remains in contact with his neighbours and their lives. Unlike some ex-Labour TD who lives not a million miles away from him.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120250578#Comment_120250578

Seems we have the whole spectrum of opinion on TDs salaries and benefits. From they should work as volunteers to its fine for them to be earning large salaries and availing of subsidised housing meant for low income workers in the middle of a housing crisis! I don't find them overpaid, particularly in government, it is a tough job (people like Boyd Barrett are stealing a living IMO though). I would find the idea that they continue to avail of social housing a bit nuts. He has been there since 2016, so 2 full terms nearly. He should get voted in again. In the 2 terms he will have been paid over a million euro, not including expenses. He can afford to house himself, there are families nearby, living with their parents who can't. I find it an extremely selfish decision to be honest.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251464#Comment_120251464

You are looking at this through a lens of what you would do in this situation. RBB may think that everyone e should live in a social house provided by the State and is therefore staying true to his principles. If he moved to a well to do area he would get more criticism.

Politicians like him are idealists and zealots so you need to adjust your world view to unserstand their mindset

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251562#Comment_120251562

It is SF's John Brady, not RBB. Maybe in the future social housing will be so plentiful that we can provide subsidised housing to those on very large salaries, but I would assume JB would admit that it looks like being some way off at the moment. So in the meantime it should be allocated to those who need it most.

Pawwed Rig

So abandon his beliefs until then? Zealots don't think like that

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120251606#Comment_120251606

I don't think he is a zealot, he is just selfish and looking after #1.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120249897#Comment_120249897

Not really; Belgium and Holland and Portuhgal for example have roughly only twice or 3 times our populations, not 5 or 10 times more, yet have less members of their parliaments than we have.

Even in New Zealand, a democratic country roughly the population of Ireland, their House of Representatives normally consists of 120 members of Parliament (MPs). There are 72 MPs elected directly in electorates while the remainder of seats are assigned to list MPs based on each party's share of the total party vote.

Here we have 160 and increasing. Plus we have a Senate and a President to pay for, and ex-Presidents to pay for ( all on 6 figure pensions), plus their hangers on. Oh, and we have MEPs to pay for too, and all the hangers on in Brussels, like the (16?) or so people on big money translating EU documents in to Irish which nobody will ever read. No wonder we have a housing and cost of living crises.

dxhound2005

We have our MEP's, TD's, Senators and County Councillors, totalling around 1,150. In recent times that used to be over 1,600 before Town Councils were abolished. The people rejected the referendum to abolish the Seanad. Pretending that Ireland is overrun with politicians is a nonsense. Holland has plenty more apart from the national parliament.

Elections in the Netherlands are held for five territorial levels of government: the European Union, the state, the twelve Provinces, the 21 water boards and the 344 municipalities (and the three public bodies in the Caribbean Netherlands).

As has been stated, the number of seats in national parliaments does not scale according to population. The Isle of Man has 35 members of their parliament for a population of 84,000. At a basic salary of £71,160 that is not as good value as we get for our TD's.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252354#Comment_120252354

Netherlands has a population of 18 million and only 150 MPs. Out of that is elected a Prime Minister. It does not elect a President or pay for Presidents / ex presidents.

Ireland has a population of 5 million and has 160 TDs, and I think they are adding 20 more. Plus we have a President, and all the ex Presidents on 6 figure pensions.

Pawwed Rig

Netherlands has monarch so of course they don't have a president.

I wonder how much a monarch costs compared to Michael D???

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252515#Comment_120252515

Just repeating your headline figures for national parliaments while ignoring the other levels doesn't add to your case. If you want to make it a value for money exercise, work it out on a fair basis.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252576#Comment_120252576

Work out the county councilors yourself in each jurisdiction, I am talking about the national parliament. Netherlands has a population of 18 million and only 150 MPs. Ireland has a population of 5 million and has 160 TDs. Mind you, when you look at the Dail on tv, you would not think there are 160, there are usually only half a dozen or a dozen there. And that is when it is sitting, I think they jast came back from their Xmas holidays a few weeks ago.;)

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252657#Comment_120252657

You are being very selective about it as was pointed out. Why are you comparing us with Holland and not with Latvia or Sweden for instance if you want to make it representation per head?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252720#Comment_120252720

It was you who looked in to Holland in detail, see post 161. Anyway, feel free to add Latvia or Sweden to the list below if you want.

As of 2015, Per million people, Spain had 13 seats in its national parliament.

Germany had 8

France had 14

Portugal had 22

Belgium had 13

Holland had 19

Italy had 16

UK had 23

Ireland - as of 2015 - had 49.

And the taxpayer pays for them of course.

dxhound2005

How did you arrive at that 49 figure? If it is of any comfort to you, the current number is around 31 TD's per million people. We had two general elections since 2015, so why use that year?

You could recalculate for the UK by including the national parliaments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland please.

deirdremf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120252026#Comment_120252026

Belgium has three regions - Brussels, Walloons and Flanders, and three communities - French, Dutch and German. Each of these has its own assembly, IIRC. Below that, they have provinces, and municipalities. I might have missed out something there.

Germany has national parliament, 18 Land parliaments, provincial assemblies, counties and municipalities. Spain is similar. I think Italy also has five levels of government.

Population-wise, Ireland (rep thereof) would be in line with a German Land, Italian Region or Spanish Autonomous Region. So we should probably have 4 levels of government, but we only have central government and counties/cities. Comparitively, we are missing two levels - provinces and municipalities.