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Jacinda Ardern to step down as New Zealand PM

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,582 ✭✭✭quokula


    She was about to be trashed because some lunatic wants to put their child's life at risk and ignore the advice of health professionals?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,397 ✭✭✭✭road_high




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    If there is one thing Jacinda is absolutely world class at, it is looking sad. There have been a few times where these "skills" have been required over her time as prime minister, the Christchurch attack, the earth quake and Covid.

    There was a lot of hubris in New Zealand regarding their Covid strategy, but basically it was possible due to being an extremely remote island nation. Fiji had a similar experience. Ultimately the strategy relied on other countries developing and manufacturing vaccines as an exit plan. I thought they could have pared the self congratulations back a bit given that. For me, Germany managed the pandemic much better, remained open throughout, open borders and a German company, BioNTech developed the Pfizer vaccine.

    I am not an expert on domestic NZ politics, but it seems her government is presiding over a similar housing situation to here. I would imagine she is viewed differently at home. I am not sure what the fascination is with her abroad. For strong, young, female leadership, I would have thought Sanna Marin or Kaja Kallas would be more impressive on the international stage (standing up to Putin while governing small neighbouring countries).



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,849 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    How? if this is the kid transfusion case, arent they trying to lower the risk

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,270 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I disagree. A real leader knows when it's time to pass the baton too. Holding onto power too long when you know you can not turn it around is usually a result hubris and is poor leadership.

    She wanted to get out on her own terms, which however shows a streak of personal preservation also.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,301 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/20/jacinda-ardern-speculation-that-abuse-and-threats-contributed-to-resignation


    In 2022, New Zealand police reported that threats against the prime minister had nearly tripled over three years. While police could not determine motives for every individual threat, documents they released showed anti-vaccination sentiment was a driving force of a number of threats, and opposition to legislation to regulate firearms after the 15 March mass shooting in Christchurch was another factor.

    From stardust to an empty tank: one-of-a-kind leader Jacinda Ardern knew her time was up

    Read more

    A weeks-long anti-vaccine-mandate occupation of parliament’s lawns descended into a violent riot in early 2022, with protesters calling for the prime minister’s execution. The protests, coupled with increased threats and abuse against the prime minister and other MPs, prompted New Zealand’s typically open and accessible parliament to up security measures.

    Over the past year, a number of men have been arrested, formally warned or faced criminal charges for threatening to assassinate Ardern, with one found guilty of sabotage in an attempt to destroy the country’s power grid connections. Public appearances by the prime minister increasingly attracted small, at times abusive groups of protesters.

    In one ugly incident, protesters in a car chased the prime minister’s van, shouting obscenities and screaming that she was “a Nazi”, at one point forcing it on to the footpath, and in February 2022, shouting protesters again chased the prime minister’s van down a driveway as she visited a primary school.

    Kate Hannah, director of the Disinformation Project which monitors online extremism at research centre Te Pūnaha Matatini, said the program had seen a significant increase in abusive, threatening material directed at Ardern, and believed it had likely contributed to her leaving the role.

    “The scope of what we’ve observed over the last three years is such that there’s no way it could not have been a contributing factor – for any person,” she said.

    “What we see now is absolutely normative, extremely vulgar and violent slurs … incredibly violent use of imagery around death threats.”


    THIS THREAD, FOR THE MOST PART, IT NOT MUCH BETTER.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    THIS THREAD, FOR THE MOST PART, IT NOT MUCH BETTER.

    The vast majority of insults/slurs on this thread have came from fans of hers and not the other side. That's the great irony.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭growleaves


    'THIS THREAD, FOR THE MOST PART, IT NOT MUCH BETTER.'

    Criticism is not much better than violent death threats?



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    It’s their standard tactic. Any criticism must be called sexist. Respond to posts with things no one ever said to try and paint it that way. Then move on to try to associate you with violent nutters.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    But surely you see that if a woman has a child they require more time off than the male involved in the reproduction, sometimes for practical physical reasons. Six weeks is reasonable to me, I do not see that as a lack of dedication. Given that most people will take 4 weeks per year for vacation anyway. You are right that there is contraception but I do not believe that any job should be so overreaching into ones personal life as to dictate their right to reproduce.

    I don't want to be accused of putting words in your mouth by asking you a question again but to summarize is it fair to say that either she should not get pregnant or she should not take so long to recover, if she were truly dedicated?

    I would submit that it is her right to reproduce when and how she chooses and ultimately it is the electorate that reviews her performance and have decided that childbirth is not a sufficiently undedicated act for a prime minister. If you can point to shortcomings in performance directly related to the six week period she required to recover from childbirth, that would be something but even then I would argue that no job should require such commitment as to prevent someone from their right to reproductive freedom as enshrined by the united nations.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    More questions about things I didn’t say.

    I didn’t say a woman wouldn’t need more time than a man after they have a child.

    I didn’t say she shouldn’t have the right to reproduction.

    I didn’t say everyone should think the same way I do. The electorate can all have their own opinions.

    I’m done answering you as you will just come back with more questions implying things I never said. No one can fail to understand what I said so badly so I can only assume it’s intentional.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,702 ✭✭✭donaghs


    As every sensible person predicted, NZ had to open up to the world eventually, and COVID spread rapidly throughout the population, just like the rest of the world.

    They delayed the inevitable. This wasn't "flattening the curve" to prevent the health services being overwhelmed, this was a Zero Covid strategy.


    New Zealand faces new Covid wave as experts say moving on from pandemic is ‘wishful thinking’ | New Zealand | The Guardian



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,999 ✭✭✭✭rob316


    Meh never got the clamour about her, just seems like another average prime minister who was held up as a beacon due to her zero covid policy on an island where the nearest land was 2000km away.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,110 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    And, as expected, not even slightly true, but you anti-vaxx sheep just lap it up and regurgitate. No critical thinking skills whatsoever. I know you don't have a lot of critical thinking skills, but do you really think a high court would rule a vaccine mandate 'a gross violation of human rights?'

    "WHAT WAS CLAIMED

    The New Zealand High Court ruled a vaccine mandate was a gross violation of human rights.

    OUR VERDICT

    Mostly False. A judge ruled the mandate unjustifiably limited some human rights of around 300 people, but he did not declare it a gross violation of human rights."





  • Registered Users Posts: 13,153 ✭✭✭✭jmayo



    Actually there doesn't appear to be the love in for say Sanna Marin in Finland.

    She is even younger and is head of an EU state, has stepped out to challenge her much more powerful neighbour and state Finland has right to join NATO if it wanted.

    Hell being vegetarian and being raised by two women doesn't seem to get her above Arden in the pecking order.

    Anyway I would rather go to her parties any day of the week, 😉

    Kaja Kallas even moreso than her Finnish colleague has very much stood against Russia.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    This..


    You are now suggesting others said stuff to deflect from your misogynistic posts which says that she should not have been a PM if she had to take time off to have a baby. There is no other way to describe them

    Sounds like some of the oul fellas that used to be on interview panels back in the last century, discussing the female candidates for a job with the parish priest!

    I asked what you meant by that post as did others but you could not justify this misogynistic response, without making it worse.

    So you deflects and accuse others.

    Standard debating skills it appears (or sub?)

    Nobody suggested abortion or contraception.. That was you.

    Spinning it that you say the same about a man is frankly just bs.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Until the population were mostly vaccinated and Omicron had been shown to be less severe than Delta.

    Just about 10 months before China...

    And their deaths are so much lower because they missed Alpha and Delta.

    Post edited by Goldengirl on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,023 ✭✭✭applehunter


    Sharan Keogan is routinely treated with contempt in the Seanad but is that is ok because her arguments don’t agree with him the liberal agenda.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    So many posts to argue that she was an unimportant, unpopular woman who did nothing of any significance?

    And this is Ireland.

    No wonder people think that she was bullied and trolled out of it in New Zealand.

    Whatever about this woman, people need to stand up to this malicious bashing that incessant on social media as it is an attempt by certain groups to pervert democracy.

    She became known BECAUSE of her very human response to the Christchurch Attack not only because she was young or female. But there are some who cannot give her an ounce of credit... Is that because she is young and female then too?

    I am hearing voices from posters who have denied Covid and all its seriousness all along, have been very antivax and antiscience and pro some very dodgy conspiracies, who all seem to be of the one opinion here.. Why do I not believe it what they are saying about this lady is true?



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl




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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    What are you putting this down to?

    Margaret Thatcher was abused all the time (bit*h and wicked witch of the west and all that) and survived an assassination attempt via the Brighton hotel bombing.

    She never resigned (edit: well she did but was really ousted).



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,535 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    @AllForIt No social media in Maggie's time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,321 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    I've said it before but I don't really care about what anyone says to anyone via the internet, particularly on social media, rather than if one has a direct line to someone via the internet or mobile, that's different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭xxxxxxl




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Let’s start with the biggest lie. I didn’t bring up abortion first. Joseywhale did as you can see and pretended that I had said it. Why do you continue with this tactic?

    I didn’t stay she can’t be PM if she takes time off to have a baby. I said it makes her a bad PM as it shows a lack of commitment and prioritising her personal life over the country in my opinion. How is that not clear?

    You talk about debating skills and then make up things to argue with. I don’t think you have the calibre for this discussion.

    whenever I reply to you or joseywhale the other one jumps in with a very similar, almost identical posting style and tactics. It’s suspicious.

    I deal with your types all the time. Can’t handle the reason behind someone’s point of view so you make up things to hit them with.

    Post edited by [Deleted User] on


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,110 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    No, lack of critical thinking and personal character are the issues. Social media is just the lazy way characterless use to get reinforcements for their hatefilled opinions. See the post above where @growleaves posted a debunked lie about the NZ supreme court decision on vaccine mandates. Do you think that poster spends his/her time looking at NZ news? Or its court decisions? No, they're tied into crazy right-wing social media sites and gobble it up without thinking and regurgitate it. Several posters thank that post and one goes as far as quoting it and saying it was great.

    Since it was debunked, have any of them shown up and said, "Hey, I was wrong." No. That's the lack of character, which drives them and their postings.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    So there we have it, a pretty anodyne middle-of-the road prime minister of a sleepy and pretty well-governed country country is a hate figure for anti-vaxxer headbanders and assorted cranks with anger issues.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,110 ✭✭✭✭Igotadose


    Well, people lacking in character feeding their grifters on social media get fed treats to stir them up and post sh1te. It's a vicious circle with the idiot sheep in the center screeching online. Heck, there's a new poster today posting sh1te on the 'right wing threat' and 'refugees' thread. It's like clockwork. Be on the Russia thread in a bit I'm sure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭growleaves


    I thanked a post by Witcher that pointed out the story was wrong.

    'Do you think that poster spends his/her time looking at NZ news? Or its court decisions?'

    I've already said on this thread I don't know anything about Arden except her support for the so-called "mandate". Her stance on this was widely reported by BBC, Irish Times etc.

    Haven't I already told you once to stop making assumptions about me on the 'Dangers of the right' thread? You don't know me. Stop getting so personal.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Btw regarding the use of the word 'hatefilled'. I think that some of you are hate-filled against people who disagree with vaccines, disagree with politicians you admire and disagree with policies you support.

    I don't have to throw out insults but @Igotadose , @pjohnson and @Yurt2 do have to throw out insults, and let everyone know that people they oppose, with the 'wrong' opinions, are, angry, cranks, pathetic, have no integrity etc., etc.

    Where's the control of your emotions and being the bigger man? Where's the detachment and just addressing the issues? No you're just hoping that your insults stick. And so you pile-on with invective.

    Transparent is what I'd call that. You haven't got a leg to stand on.



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