UK state pension

greengirl1968

Hi there

I have worked in the UK 15 years and have the opportunity to buy pension contributions for some of the years I have missed. Is this a good idea? It will cost me £20,000 approx.

I have also worked in Ireland for 10 years approx. Can I receive both pensions at age 66 and will I be taxed on them

Thanks

mct1

It's almost always worth buying voluntary contributions. But check with UK Pensions whether you would qualify for Class 2 rather than Class 3 contributions. Class 2 are much cheaper - that's what myself and husband both paid - and if you qualify it would cost you considerably less than £20,000.

If they want Class 3 then you'd have to do your sums. Uk Pensions office originally sent us separate quotes for Class 3 but corrected them when we queried.

You can receive both state pensions at pension age - currently 66 in both countries. And once you are resident here you pay tax in Ireland on all your pensions and income, including that from the UK.

Hope this helps.

greengirl1968

Thanks so much mct1

I hadn't heard of class 2 / class 3 - I will look at my letter from them again - I presume Class 2 would give you your proper pension amount but is dependent on how many NI contributions you made etc

mct1

Have you seen this?

https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions

According to the table entry "Living and working abroad" if you worked in the UK "immediately before leaving" (as we both did) you should be eligible for Class 2.

greengirl1968

Thanks so much - I'll have a read. It's great to be informed on these things - its good to make sure you have some sort of decent income when retirement comes 😀

FernandoTorres

To qualify for the full UK pension you need 30 years contributions and it's about 40 for Ireland. So unless you worked for over 70 years you wouldn't be getting the full pension from both. Sounds like in your position you'd be best getting the max possible UK pension then getting a reduced Irish one.

Calahonda52

I understand Clare Byrne today on radio 1 has segment on UK pensions so maybe check to see it there are any material adverse changes mooted by the descendants of Cromwell.

I get c.70 euros month, they do the exchange rate conversion each time so it varies a little

JoChervil

OP, it all depends on your age. If you are close to retirement age, so very likely you will get Irish pension, if you worked full time for minimum 10 years here. So try to up it to that amount, if you did not.

greengirl1968

Thanks for that - I got a pension forecast which says I would get £149.10 per week of UK pension, I presume this is a partial rate

greengirl1968

Thanks for that - I'll give it a listen 😊

greengirl1968

Thanks, yes, I've worked in UK about 15 years, and here about the same amount- and counting.. I'm hoping that topping up my UK NI contributions I might get a half decent amount when I retire

mct1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120103651#Comment_120103651

That's not the full 'new' pension rate of £185=but it's virtually the same as I get on the full old 'basic' (pre 2016) UK pension, so not bad at all, and regular increases too.. Mine started when I was 61 so can't complain.

I also topped up my Irish State contributory pension to a full one with voluntary contributions. You should look into that too if you stop PRSI payments before pension age.

onrail

Pardon my ignorance here, but I thought on moving back to Ireland, UK national insurance contributions were simply recognised under a recipriocal agreement, and then you would simply claim a full Irish pension (the greater of the 2) assuming you worked until normal retirement age?

I've 12 years of NI contributions and recently moved back to Ireland - unfortunately, I think I only qualify for Class 3 contributions.

Edit: Not sure whether Class 2 or Class 3. I worked for an Irish based company while residing in the UK for a year before I left...

mct1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120104907#Comment_120104907

You can definitely claim both according to your level of NI/PRSA contributions in each country. I have mine a few years now and it's still the case. I believe if your contribution years don't entitle you to a state pension in one or both countries it's possible to combine them for an Irish contributory pension so you don't lose out. It's worth making early enquiries and doing your calculations because UK voluntary contributions have a deadline.

Berberis

Have a few years worked there in the 80's and sent an enquiry from this link given out on the Claire Byrne radio show from last week.

https://secure.dwp.gov.uk/ipc/personal-details

Be great if the process of be eligible for it can be done before the closing date of April this year.

Wife has a few years also, so she put in an enquiry too.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120101968#Comment_120101968

Hi I seen that you got your pension contributions changed from Class 3 to Class 2. How did you go about doing that? I am on gov.uk and its Class 3 about £5000 for the past 6 years. But could be so much less if it was Class 2. What is the criteria for class 2, I did read it but it's a bit confusing as the class 3 has the same criteria. If you could shed some light on your process, that would be great.

mct1

Criteria are here on the gov.uk website https://www.gov.uk/voluntary-national-insurance-contributions/who-can-pay-voluntary-contributions under the heading "Living and working abroad"

"You can pay Class 2 or Class 3 voluntary contributions if you had either:

• previously lived in the UK for 3 years in a row
• paid at least 3 years of contributions

To pay Class 2 voluntary contributions you must also have worked in the UK immediately before leaving."

If you qualify just phone or write to them, say you should be Class 2. They can easily check that from your past work NI payments. If it turns out you've overpaid and you applied correctly you could be due a refund..

Mary34

Hi all, my husband worked in the UK in late 80s early 90s, we have rang the UK Pensions department and they advised us to ring the number for him to see how many national insurance contributions he has made we have been ringing but a wait time of 40mins plus so we give up each time, has anyone got a more direct contact or do we just keep trying?

Colm Cummins

Hi Mary,

In the same boat myself. My wife is on the case and managed to get through after waiting a long time, 0044 191 2037010 is the National Insurance helpline number. Keep trying, they are accommodating when you do eventually get through.

You can also write to the following address,

PT Operations North East England,

HM Revenue and Customs,

BX9 1AN,

United Kingdom.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192123#Comment_120192123

The class 2 criteria is a little confusing. I worked for 3.5 years in a row and have 4 years of full contributions. So that's covered.

Has anybody been able to find out what they clarify as immediately before leaving. I finished my job and left a week after packing and sorting out the removal van and bills etc.

Also is there another criteria about having to work when I came back to Ireland?

Can someone paying class 2 explain their situation and if it was similar to mine.

Thanks in advance.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120103068#Comment_120103068

Note that it is possible to buy voluntary NIC to enhance a UK state Pension, and so get a full UK, and a full IE state pension.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417389#Comment_120417389

Class 2 = left UK and now working abroad

Class 3 = left UK and not working abroad

Geuze

Read this:

https://www.askaboutmoney.com/threads/uk-state-pension-am-i-class-2-or-class-3.230656/

How much does it cost to make a voluntary contribution?

Most common is either Class 2 or Class 3 contributions: Class 2 will be cheaper, but even if you are assessed as Class 3 it's still worth doing.

Class 2 Annually: £163.80 (GBP) - £3.15 per week

Class 3 Annually: £824.20 (GBP) - £15.85 per week

Which will I pay: Class 2 or Class 3?

Living and working abroad: Class 2 - but only if you worked in the UK immediately before leaving, and you’ve previously lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions

Living abroad but not working: Class 3 - but only if at some point you’ve lived in the UK for at least 3 years in a row or paid at least 3 years of contributions

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120417881#Comment_120417881

Ok brilliant, thank you for the link and information.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120103068#Comment_120103068

You sure about that?

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120424196#Comment_120424196

You can have max on both as you can be working in Ireland and paying voluntary contributions for UK pension or vice versa, dependent on age and when you started contributing. Or you could be paying both country's voluntary contributions and sitting at home taking it easy. That's once you paid enough prsi and NI in order to be eligible for voluntary contributions. :)

FernandoTorres

My original comment was about the OPs situation, not a generic comment. Yes it's possible to qualify fully for both through voluntary contributions but you'd need to have been planning a lot earlier than the OP who is at least in their 50s given the info provided.

Saudades

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120424228#Comment_120424228

I'm not sure if Ireland' DSP would let you pay voluntary contributions if you're already paying UK VC's.

One of the conditions are [quote]Are no longer covered by PRSI on a compulsory or voluntary basis in another EU country[/quote].

Of course that rule has been in place since before Brexit....

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120428521#Comment_120428521

That's an interesting one, so technically if the UK had this as a condition we would not be having this conversation. As in most people are paying compulsory Prsi in ireland so we wouldn't be able to pay the voluntary NI for the UK (if this condition was on the UK side of things).

I find this strange that UK wouldn't have this condition. I have a feeling it could be wrong on the Irish side.

Maybe someone could clarify??

Brenny123

Hey all, great thread. I worked in the UK 2023-2011 before moved back to Ireland. Not sure if anyone saw the recent article in the Irish Times but posting here in case anyone is in the same situation. Its worth a read. https://www.irishtimes.com/your-money/2023/07/04/worked-in-the-uk-top-up-your-pension-and-benefit-by-as-much-as-180000/.

I have 7-8 years contributions (I think I need a min of 10 years contributions) so I am going to complete and post off the CF83 form with a cover letter and see what the next steps should be. However the CF83 form also request bank details etc. Has anyone completed it and if so what did you do. ATM I just want to see what "Class" I should be entitled to and find out the next steps. Appreciate any info on experiences etc.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825782#Comment_120825782

Hi,

I ticked the annual payment option so didn't provide bank details. The bank details are for a direct debit option. I would rather find out which class I am entitled to pay and then provide bank details. Also I wrote the cover letter and the filled the application form to request that I wanted to pay class 2, as I fulfill the requirements. So if you feel you fulfill the requirements request class 2.

Bojill

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120825782#Comment_120825782

I just do a bank transfer in April, their bank details are on the website.

BlazingSaddler

Hi all. I have 10 years contributions and would like to pay contributions for the gap years 2006 to 2018. I haven’t yet done so as it has me down for £824.20 (Class 3) per year but I believe it should be Class 2. I sent the form in mid January but still nothing back! Any idea when I may find out if my application for class 2 payments has been accepted?!! Surely 6 months is enough time although they must have a mighty backlog!

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901935#Comment_120901935

Deleted

onrail

Does anyone know exactly how exactly 'working in the UK' is defined for Class 2? About a year before returning to Ireland, I worked for an Irish company, paid prsi etc, but predominantly while WFH (in the UK)

Jakey Rolling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120901935#Comment_120901935

Ditto - waiting since April. I'm used to waiting - Revenue took 6 years to correct an error in my 04/05 record.

A quick calc shows that paying a year at Class 2 is recouped if you live to collect pension for 8 months (buy an extra year for £160, payout increases by £250/year). Even paying Class 3 rates, you would need to collect for just 3.5 years before you "break even".

Schorpio

Posted my form in mid-January. Got a reply last week, so seems to be about a 9 month wait.

BlazingSaddler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121135866#Comment_121135866

Did you get the answer you were looking for? I called last week and they said my application should be reviewed within a week, could take 4 weeks though to get the letter from them!

funnyname

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136353#Comment_121136353

What no did you call them on?

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121136353#Comment_121136353

No. They said I wasn't eligible for Class 2 payments because I'm not working in Ireland. Except this isn't true - I've never not worked since the day I moved back. I had submitted information regarding my current employment status. Very, very annoying.

The cynic in me thniks that they are trying to push people into Class 3 (much more expensive) and hope they just accept it. I had to sent a reply letter this week pointing out their mistake. Will probably be another 9 months waiting!

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137247#Comment_121137247

If you are entitled to class 2 then by all means don't let them say otherwise. They will definitely try to push class 3 on everyone. It's up to you to prove you are entitled to it and sounds like you have done that. Also there must be a complaints procedure or an appeals process, if they continue to not grant you class 2, once you provide proof and documentation they request.

Just frustrating it all takes soo long. I am still waiting for a reply, and don't even know if they received the application 😅

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121137755#Comment_121137755

Thanks, i know that. I re-submitted the application form with an updated cover letter, where I politely said that I am (and always have been employed), please reconsider the enclosed application. Not going to take it lying down.

What really irked me was the tone of the letter. It was basically - Class 3, thanks and goodbye. There was a section for the HMRC phone number, which was blank. There was no 'if you are working then contact us....' etc.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142690#Comment_121142690

Did they give any kind of explanation as to why you didn't get class 2. There are a few conditions for class 2 isn't there. The main one being working here in ireland but what about the other one, you had to have been working immediately before leaving the UK. Did you meet that condition. The Uk pensions office doesn't have access to employment records that I know of. So I would have presumed they should have an explanation as why they don't think you are entitled to pay class 2.

I stupidly didn't fill in the working section as when I read it at the time, it sounded more for a UK citizen. "UK employers details for outside UK.

So a month or so later, I resent my application with a cover letter explaining why I didn't fill it in. I also sent a letter from revenue stating I was self employed from the date I returned to Ireland. And I also sent them a letter from the employer in the UK stating I left my job due to relocation.

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143387#Comment_121143387

I did work immediately before leaving the UK - but the letter was clear. They stated that I was ineligible for Class 2 as I'm not currently employed (which is not true).

I had only partially filled out the working section - just like you, it seemed like it would be for a situation whereby a person is employed by a UK company but stationed (and paid) overseas, which I believe is also covered by the same form. I had included a cover letter detailing my Irish employment.

The guidance for the application form literally states to include a separate sheet detailing your overseas employment if you have had more than one employer, so I had thought that I was covered on that front. it looks like the person in HMRC completely ignored it.

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121143523#Comment_121143523

Ah ok, that's a bit mad that literally you supply them with all your employment details and they decide you are not working. They should at least ask for more proof if they weren't satisfied. Fingers crossed they come back with better news, for both of us.

Charles Babbage

One imagines that the main determinant in their decisions about whether you were working in the UK before leaving was whether you were paying social insurance contributions.

Delboy5

Any ideas on the following scenario, worked and lived in northern Ireland, approx. 1998 to 2007, got married, relocated to Ireland but kept same job from 2007 to 2013. Have 15 full years on my NI record.

Unemployed since then other than a period from 2020-2021 when i was employed in Ireland.

Should i be Class 2 ?

System is showing Class 3.

BlazingSaddler

Just received my letter from HMRC after 10 months saying they’ve accepted my application to pay Class 2 contributions. Delighted with that. So currently (after the 10 qualifying years) is £61 per week pension. If I pay approx £164 per year from now until 2040 that increases to £162 per week and if I pay 8 years shortfall (approx £164 per year) This will give me the max 35 years and will give me approx £204 per week pension. I think it’s a no brainer. Does this 100% not affect the Irish state pension that I would also get? Thank you!

RCSATELLITES

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309991#Comment_121309991

Did you have to provide any information to prove you are working in Ireland?

It doesn't affect the Irish pension. My mam and dad are currently getting Full irish, half English and my dad also some Italian and some Dutch. So definitely is fine. I hit 40 last week so hoping to pay another 25 years and it should get me the full pension. Just waiting on the letter for now.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121309991#Comment_121309991

No, according to the EU rules and the Post BREXIT agreement, you are entitled to receive as many pensions as you are entitled to. And if you fail to qualify for a full pension in any state, then you are entitled to have the pension entitlements combined to maximize the total payout.

The only thing to keep in mind is that the state paying the largest portion of your pensions is responsible for your healthcare as well, unless you qualify independently for healthcare services in the state in which you reside. So for example in my case, my total state pension is paid by Switzerland and therefore I'm not covered by HSE if I was to return to Ireland. If I did decide to move the Swiss Authorities would issue me with a private health insurance card that would be billed for all my medical expenses in Ireland.

BlazingSaddler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121310201#Comment_121310201

In section 4 of the application form it asks about Employment abroad. Here I added a separate sheet where I put the names and addresses, dates of any employers that I had since I moved to Ireland in 2002. I didn’t provide any more than that.