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America executes trans inmate

  • 07-01-2023 11:41pm
    Registered Users Posts: 12,069 ✭✭✭✭

    America has administered its first Lethal injection of 2023 to a transgender woman.

    Why is a first world country still putting its citizens to death, particularly using a one drug method



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭phonypony

    A barbaric, cruel, outdated and frankly pointless mode of punishment. But USA has always been the land of contradiction. Land of the free, home of the electric chair.

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,513 ✭✭✭✭Strumms

    he stalked, harassed tortured and killed, took the body and dumped it….

    very much pre meditated and organised from what I read. Completely evil.

    he and his legal team then decided to use the mental health angle as a get out of dodge card….

    id agree that a shot of Midazolam or similar sedative preceding the lethal shot of whatever might be appropriate …but so it goes.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭AyeGer

    He was legally a man when he committed the crime and was sentenced.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,997 ✭✭✭jmreire

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,031 ✭✭✭MrMusician18

    Can't see the relevance of the individuals gender here.

    Should the person be treated differently because they transitioned? No.

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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha

    It's a truly disgusting country in some regards. Slash funding to poorer areas, turn the police into cosplaying mercenaries, incarcerate more people per capita than anywhere else in the world and then spend more executing prisoners than it would cost to send them to Harvard.

    There is no justification for the death penalty. Not one. Utterly vile.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,107 ✭✭✭T-Maxx

    Bring back the guillotine I say.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭AyeGer

    I think a worse punishment would be to spend the rest of your life in an American prison.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭Greyfox

    Id be in favour of the death penalty in extreme cases if it saved the taxpayer a lot of money but it doesn't even do that so the death penalty seems a bit pointless when a criminal could be given multiple life sentences instead

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    If you want to discuss the death penalty and specifically the humanity of using lethal injection, why not lead why not lead with the fact that the US have botched 35% of execution attempts this year.

    if you want to discuss the plainly inadequate care given to inmates including transgender inmates leading to record levels of suicide then fair enough.

    But the OP has two statements that are in no way connected.

    Finally anyone who is in favour of the death penalty can never back their opinion up with facts or statistics other than a macabre want to kill another person.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,666 ✭✭✭✭Panthro

    They should be subjected to a lifetime in solitary with the Crazy Frog song on repeat until the day they die.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    Pretty much perfectly describes the life of a death row inmate. What do you think they endure?

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,513 ✭✭✭✭Strumms

    no stats can back it up because if a person is dead, recidivism can’t be measured….. Recidivism is measured by criminal acts that resulted in rearrest, re-convictions or return to prison with or without a new sentence during a period following the person's release.

    Botched executions ? Bizarre… every day in every country doctors and dentists administer drugs like Propofol before invasive procedures….that knock the recipient the hell out, for hours in some cases….so why not inject a 3 hour dose of Propofol or similar, followed by whatever drug induces end of life… if after an hour the individual is alive…. Double it. Witnesses can be two medical professionals, the judges themselves, a member of the public and senior Gardai…

    not in favour of the death penalty aside from in the most heinous crimes.

    Life, humanity is something that each and everyone is entitled to. So is freedom. Freedoms are removed when we jail people, life could be removed from someone if they are proven to have committed terrible crimes and will be a tangible danger. The likes of Malcolm McArthur, John Shaw and Geoffrey Evans…. We know about McArthur but Shaw and Evans came to Ireland to commit one murder a week….

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    In most of the cases punishment fits the crime. (Botched executions included)

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭sniperman

    an eye for an eye

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    What I mean by stats is states in the US with the death penalty have higher numbers of heinous crimes than states without. That can’t be argued with.

    Taking that as fact, are people promoting the death penalty as an eye for an eye or a means of torture. If that’s the case then Let’s discuss that need in the person.

    there is no situation that the death penalty works. Especially with flawed legal systems that can convict innocent people.

  • Registered Users Posts: 13,235 ✭✭✭✭kowloon

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,182 ✭✭✭cgcsb

    Interesting, I don't agree with the death penalty myself but also wouldn't be overly critical of those that support it. In the context of America, its just such a violent place with so much racial and class division, so much drug addiction, so much dead end poverty and the violence is gratuitous and extreme. I don't think I could propose anything to really fix it. It's not like in Europe where we have a gripe about x and think y should be done. It's that the USA, like much of the developing world, is completely broken from top to bottom and there is no real answer. I've read about todlers being shot in their parent's cars by other car drivers because someone didn't like their driving. I've read about todlers shooting other todlers and they're completely desensitised to it as a country. They see this on the news and think it's all fine or make some crass comment about the area it happened in as if they're remote from the fact. It's a bonkers place.

  • Registered Users Posts: 35,163 ✭✭✭✭BorneTobyWilde

    Firing squad would be easier, in the wilderness

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    The United States is the first world and to them the beacon of the best legal system in the world. It’s not Belize or war torn Africa. The examples you have given as reasons not to be overly critical of the death penalty are the epitome of examples where the death penalty is the worst solution possible. A bonkers place is not an appropriate reason for taking a life because of a crime.

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,513 ✭✭✭✭Strumms

    But if they hadn’t got the death penalty a certain logic might be promoted that it could be worse again.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    But they did get the death penalty and the crime rates for the same offences are higher than the states with no death penalty. It’s that black and white. The simple fact is that when a person is about to commit a crime that is punishable by death they don’t stop and go ‘hold on a second, if I become a serial killer, is the death penalty on the table’. Equally they don’t stop and say ‘I better become a serial killer in California rather than Texas because I will evade the death sentence’.

    criminals rarely think about the punishment before they commit the crime.

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran

    There is certainly a bit more of "vengeance" in the death penalty than there is 'deterrence", but it's not as if it gets handed out for every offense either. The argument is that the crimes are so heinous that the offender loses his or her right to life.

    Questions of cost are a political choice. The last time California had a referendum on abolishing the death penalty, "keep" won and the same referendum "change the process to make it faster to reduce the cost" won.

    The question on the matter of false conviction is a far more powerful one, albeit one which can perhaps be mitigated with a higher standard of evidence.

    The transgender status of the offender is irrelevant. I doubt Beverly Guenther much cared at least.

  • Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭GSBellew

    Are trans people exempt from sentencing?

    I don't agree with the death sentence as such, but should a Trans person be more protected than a non trans, nope, or its another avenue to get out of **** that you did.

  • Registered Users Posts: 623 ✭✭✭GSBellew

    You're free if you don't go, oh you know killing people and such.

    The "land of the free" was never meant to mean free to do whatever you want, it's supposed to be free of the tyranny of the brits basically.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    I agree with everything you said.

    As a criminal barrister I never cease to be moved when every murder case I have been on the senior counsel in his/her closing argument always discusses the Birmingham 6/Guildford 4 and word for word quotes the judge when convicting them for a crime they didn’t commit using words along the lines of’if I could put you to death I would’.

  • Posts: 17,381 [Deleted User]

    I don't think punishment comes into for things like murder and rape, which are primal sort of things I guess.

    But I do think it comes into it for most other crimes. Ireland has a problem with youth violence and drugs because those things aren't punished. Where I live has a problem with dangerous driving because it's never punished.

    There should be normal prisons for non-violent offenders, and horrific shltholes that are cheap to run for violent offenders. Punching someone on a night out should be a life-ruining decision.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,911 ✭✭✭joeguevara

    As a civilised society we can never be happy with a situation where torture or inhumane conditions for convicted people can be tolerated. For one it ensures a huge demographic with disdain for authority and exacerbates crime.

    as for one punch life ruining…seriously?

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  • Posts: 17,381 [Deleted User]

    Yeah, I think anyone who uses any violence isn't fit for society. That's hardly a controversial opinion.