Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123617166#Comment_123617166

exactly. Musk will realise really quickly that money can’t simply create a democratic movement - it’s emotion and principles based, not money.
Once that happens, he either goes quietly into the night, or realigns himself on the Blue or the Red side.

Don’t rule out him giving the Dems money purely to pi$$ off the GOP.

And if the Dems have any sense they’ll do what Trump did - take the money and deal with musk after they achieve what they set out to do.

IsaacWunder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123616927#Comment_123616927

You might not be interested in politics, but politics is interested in you.

JOL1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123617432#Comment_123617432

Of course I am in politics, merely making the point that choosing to buy a specific car does not always imply support for any political or personal endorsement.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123617483#Comment_123617483

this thread relates to wether or not the CEO of Tesla is damaging Tesla. I dont see a reasonable argument to suggest that answer isn’t still a resounding ‘yes’.

Simply reminding us in every thread that owners of new Tesla cars aren’t political (and I don’t believe they are either, but I’m all for free will), doesn’t change the focus of this thread.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123617166#Comment_123617166

They could do. They fell out during Trump 1.0 and he came back for Trump 2.0 so who knows.
Although I think they might have gone too far this time unless Trump does a u-turn.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123617305#Comment_123617305

Musk will realise really quickly that money can’t simply create a democratic movement

He has no intention of creating a democratic movement. He might say that in his tweets but all he really wants to do is stick the knife into Donald now by threatening to split the vote or get him to u-turn.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123618097#Comment_123618097

again, I agree - but a vote for Trump is not just a vote for the man, he’s the face of the whole MAGA movement - those voters consider themselves ‘MAGA Republican’. Musk has no movement.

He’s has the cult of personality- it’s a totally different thing.

His remarkable lack of self-awareness is incredible. I think all that awkwardness is real btw - he doesn’t like public speaking, but really believes that people want to hear what he has to say, based on the foolish assumption that if someone is wealthy from one area, that they are experts on all other areas too.

sk8board

Last week it was his defacto Tesla ceo Omead Afshar who left, and today it’s Yaccarino at Twitter.

Yet another distraction for musk from the business of being Tesla ceo

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx2gy3j9xq6o

considering the hours spent tweeting and on political stuff, you’d genuinely have to wonder how his calendar is structured for each of the multi-billion companies he’s supposed to be fully in charge of

IsaacWunder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123617483#Comment_123617483

Absolutely, buying a car doesn’t automatically signal political allegiance, except when the car brand itself has been politicised.

A new car is the second biggest purchase most people make after buying a home. It’s not a decision made lightly, like buying a toaster. People spend time thinking about the choice.

So saying that buying a Tesla in 2025 doesn’t imply any political posture is like claiming you can wear Yeezys “because they’re more comfortable than Reeboks or whatever”, or a chinchilla coat because “it’s warmer than a parka”, or a kilt because “it’s less restrictive than trousers”. All of those things might be true, but they ignore a massive cultural context and how others will read that choice.

MojoMaker

FotCT.

Fear of the Curtain Twitchers.

Tutting away.

That driver is a MAGA Supporter 😱

toolshead

Tesla cars are getting Grok as their AI.
We would be much better off having a choice of what AI we wish to use. Elon complained of AI’s trained on the whole internet of being too woke. Instead, there is evidence now that Grok is biased towards his personal Twitter posts on controversial subjects. https://techcrunch.com/2025/07/10/grok-4-seems-to-consult-elon-musk-to-answer-controversial-questions/

Fingers crossed anti-monopoly legislation in the EU allow other AIs into our cars.

Royale with Cheese

Dafuq, I don't want any AI in my car.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123622880#Comment_123622880

Supposedly he was annoyed by Grok giving woke answers so they had to train it to be more right wing

Let's just keep in mind that this is a person who regards woke as refraining from using words to describe people that they would prefer you didn't use

It really isn't difficult to show a basic level of respect for other people and yet the world's smartest man apparently struggles with even such a low bar

Anyway, regarding EU anti competition laws, I'm not sure it'll count as you have consumer choice regarding what car you buy and the AI chatbot is just a feature of that car. I could similarly object to VW using ChatGPT for their voice assistant and just be told to not buy a VW

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123622884#Comment_123622884

AI and Machine Learning are already being used to some degree in many cars.

You can probably turn off the voice assistant however there's nothing stopping any manufacturer from linking the voice assistant to some other feature

Like disabling the voice assistant could disable Autopilot as well or some BS

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623098#Comment_123623098

That's not true there isn't any AI in any cars currently. The voice assistants that exist in auto today are the original ones related to Google assistant or other voice based response software.

I'd chuck my tesla immediately if Grok was introduced.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623141#Comment_123623141

ChatGPT is used by VW in ID's, the Tiguan and new Passat. Their model attempts to first action a user prompt using the local prompt / response, if a local response can't be found it's then forward to ChatGPT and the answer read back in the same VW voice. It's been available since last year.

I'd imagine Grok on Tesla will work much the same.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623206#Comment_123623206

Ouch, this is awful awful stuff. Without being obtuse these companies are selling this stuff to the likes of palintir for example.

No one should be pro 'ai' in their vehicles.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623230#Comment_123623230

Online voice assistants are just another software feature. If you don't want to use them then don't. I think it's hyperbole to call it awful awful stuff when a large part of the population is walking around with the exact same thing on them 24 hours a day via their mobile device.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623230#Comment_123623230

Your car is already gathering a large amount of data which is being sent back to the vendor and used for machine learning and training AI models

Things from navigation to predictive maintenance and self driving systems, not just chatbots

And it isn't just the manufacturer, I know of several parts vendors who have data sharing agreements and gather parts from multiple brands of car

AI is a useful tool when used correctly. The problem is the majority of interest seems to be in the propaganda generators or selling CEOs on the idea that they can fire 75% of their staff and use AI agents instead

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623469#Comment_123623469

Theses arent online voice assistants , these are inputs to large scale LLMs that are more invasive and being shared beyond their source companies into military contracts and surveillance organisations. We are right now actually in a real time frame of destroying privacy laws worldwide. Its not hyperbolic if anyone does a modicum of research. Its beyond tesla and more associated to the likes of openAI and cohorts.

Personally I think privacy groups , governments and citizens need to start getting informed more quickly.

Your in an age where people will know your political choices before you get to the polling booths.

Is that cool?...

toolshead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623098#Comment_123623098

I could similarly object to VW using ChatGPT for their voice assistant and just be told to not buy a VW

But you couldn't similarly object. VW's system uses a back-end that is AI model agnostic. It so happens that ChatGPT was the first integrated. From their press release: "[VW's] Cerence Chat Pro is the fastest and simplest way for OEMs to integrate LLM capabilities, including ChatGPT"https://www.cerence.com/news-releases/news-release-details/get-chatty-volkswagen-cerence-chat-pro-now-available-us-drivers There are no signs that Elon will enable the use of other AI's in Tesla other than one from a company he owns. He similarly disallowed Googles Android Auto or Apple Airplay in his cars. Historically, VW have integrated Amazons Alexa. They have also used Android Auto, which, with its app store, enables developers to make apps with Claude or Grok or whatever AI functionality they want.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623098#Comment_123623098

That's an interesting way to define woke people. I just think of the opposite, which is asleep

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123623589#Comment_123623589

Think that goes well beyond the use case of online voice assistant being made available to you in your car.

I know myself I'm not likely to have a detailed discussion about the ethical considerations of the supermarket industry whilst pressing the voice button and saying drive me to the local Supervalu.

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123624297#Comment_123624297

Here's the problem. The mics are always on. The buttons are to make you feel like you're sending a command and it opens a whole 'this discussion is only starting' on the screen.

We are in an new landscape of invasion of privacy and too many people arent aware. Theres a massive push to undermine existing privacy legislation and IP rights.

MojoMaker

Noooo

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123624400#Comment_123624400

Given how many privacy and security researchers are out their who are very keen to highlight GDPR breaches in circumstances I presume you have some resources citing evidence of this accusation?

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123624737#Comment_123624737

Stolen IP or MICs always on ?

Lads seriously, open AI built their empire on theft of IP. They've scraped books,art, music ,videos and every website that's ever existed including forums like this very one.

Have you not read up on this all ? I've someone above calling me thin foil hat! This is so ubiquitously avaliable on any search that I won't dignify gathering sources.

As for mics always on.. here's a 6 year old article warning about this Smart talking: are our devices threatening our privacy? | Technology | The Guardian https://share.google/2jvw9StpZZHGj0F83

There's are hundreds of articles on this from reputable sources.

There is nothing worse than someone saying 'source' when something that is so widely known and available on the Internet. Its really a poor put down exercise tbh.

Anyone who assume your car isn't listening to you had their head in the clouds at this point. Thin foil hat ? Talk about ignorance.

And Musks tech is no better of course he'll use it to listen in via his Grok. An AI which he controls and has proven to manipulate.

There's a great thread to be made on potential for people to move backwards into old cars. For this purpose. We could see price increase on old vehicles.... who knows

For sake of balance. I certainly do not trust the Chinese either. There may be something to be made about the cost of their vehicle and the push into europe. Can track and listen to everyone.

listermint

Just an addition to above. The Irish GDPR office and officials are not staffed or geared up for any of this. Its no wonder the EU is disappointed in how poorly they enforce meta for example.

Under resourced, lack of expertise. A government fault.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123624867#Comment_123624867

FWIW I agree that AI chatbots are pretty pointless and the companies that create them have engaged in widespread IP theft

I also agree that a lot of voice assistants are very privacy invasive and more difficult to turn off thabthan they need to be

I don't agree about the idea that AI companies are engaging in theft by scraping sites like Facebook, X, Reddit or even Boards. The posts on those sites can be found via an internet search and everything on them is public domain

I'm also slightly surprised that an AI chatbot is the final straw that would cause you to sell your car. As I mentioned there is already a lot of data being collected which is likely more invasive

Personally I'd have more concerns about my car sending my location info than a recording of me singing along to KMFDM

listermint

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123624940#Comment_123624940

Well my concern is and very recently that rather than that data being used by example Facebook or Google for targeted ads. Which for me personally is 'so', 'whatever' I might actually buy some of the product that pops up...

Into the current environment where it's used to listen and decipher your political leanings your thought speech . Cambridge analytica was a mark in time to demonstrate the power of targeted data. This amped up on steroids with LLMs and integrated microphones into everything you do. Seems a reasonable concern.

It timely.

And I think people are entitled to change their attitudes to certain tech as information about its usage comes along.

Open AI are actively stealing from small authors, writers, movie makers , traditional movie studios, YouTube, small musicians, large music studios. Basically anyone with anything that's been digitised. It is theft.

The same laws that were propped up when the individuals were using napster are now roughshod over when wall street money is stealing IP. Amazing? Or just example of money and power.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123624867#Comment_123624867

OpenAI using dodgy sources to train their model is a very different conversation (more suited to CA) than an unfounded claim that vehicle manufacturers are using hot mics to sell them conversational data.