Is Elon Musk hurting Tesla? (Mod Note Post #1)

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123696419#Comment_123696419

You are crazy.

https://www.tiktok.com/@millennialmenmovement/video/7187374991208353067

yagan

I remember a few years ago Musk touted a underground road around LA but hadn't realised he'd actually created one in Vegas until this video by an urbanist I follow on Youtube popped up. You don't have to watch too much before you ask how the hell is this thing ever going to make a return?

It's simply bonkers but he seems to like money pits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPjODKUxV5g&t=349s&ab_channel=RayDelahanty%7CCityNerd

kanuseeme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123703738#Comment_123703738

The thing I really really do not understand is , Why is it not automated? I mean every one harps on about FSD and billions and trillions when its working, and they cannot have a simple loop automated, its a loop in an under ground tunnel, how hard can it be to stop it hitting the walls, one person at the pickup/drop off with a kill switch could monitor it, instead every car has a driver, its the main reason why I think musk is full of sh1te.

yagan

^^^^

I agree. A train carrying hundreds of people in one trip makes economic sense, and maybe in the long if the loop needs to be sold off then Vegas could potentially adapt it for mass transit.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123703921#Comment_123703921

Is it still using drivers? I remember it was when they launched but they were hoping to go driverless within a few months

I believe they're using FSD, they still need a driver at the wheel for safety reasons. Whether that's purely due to regulators, I don't know, but you'd imagine Tesla would pick somewhere with friendly rules for their loop concept

I agree, the whole FSD thing is just a scam at this point. I'm sure it'll work under specific circumstances in some well known and defined areas, but the idea that you can just hop in a Tesla and drive from anywhere to anywhere without ever touching the wheel is ridiculous

What's particularly frustrating is that it takes away from the resources for better drivers aids which would be more useful in the near

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123703921#Comment_123703921

Very obvious reason why you don't automate it. Once it's automated you very quickly realise that it makes sense to make pods instead of a car like vehicle. Once you've got pods it's an obvious next step to link multiple pods together if they are going in the same direction.

Dang, you've accidentally invented the train again.

reaction238

Its all about Mars really.

DrPsychia

https://youtu.be/W8HEjee20V0?si=E1EbXNaqnUv6ZGuV

Great analysis by Patrick Boyle

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123713724#Comment_123713724

it’s a great line in fairness - that Musk’s reduced $29bn pay award represents 80% of Tesla’s lifetime net profit since it became a public company

DrPsychia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123714863#Comment_123714863

It is.

It's unbelievable is that the only requirement for his $30 billion pay package is simply to remain at Tesla for another 2 years. There’s no condition to increase sales, or expectation to dedicate his full attention to Tesla rather than his other companies, no stipulation to launch new models, and no push to roll out the next generation of the current lineup.

A 2 person special board committee approved the payout. The whole thing is beyond corrupt.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123715495#Comment_123715495

The whole thing is beyond corrupt.

Is it really?

It might be an obscene amount of money and unjustified based on current sales etc, but corrupt is a stretch?

I know the shareholders would prefer the money be divied up to them but he hit his targets to get the payout and those targets seemed somewhat unreachable at the time they were put in place, so a devils advocate view of it is that he is getting what he earned and was agreed a long time ago? Or am I missing some key point?

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123715595#Comment_123715595

I'm not 100% up to speed but I believe the case against his previous pay package was that the board is supposed to negotiate in favour of the shareholders, but because they're all buddies with Elon they basically gave him whatever they wanted

It'd be like selling a house and the estate agent selling it to a buddy of theirs for €10k instead of the market price. They're supposed to work for the seller, not the buyers

I'm not at all surprised that the current package is simply to keep Elon around with no real strings attached, the shareholders only care about the stock price. It's been clear for a while that the stock price has no relation to actual company performance and is purely dependent on what Elon has said today

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123715595#Comment_123715595

there are no targets associated with this new pay award whatsoever, he only needs to be ‘engaged’ with the company for the next 24 months - indeed he doesn’t actually have to be in the office, nor even be the CEO - he just needs to be an employee/not resign. It really is that flimsy.

So flimsy in fact, that the Tesla CFO wants to account for this pay award as having zero value (as if to suggest that it won’t ever get paid), while any normal GAAP accountancy rules would account for this as being a potential cost to the business of $29 - $50bn - the latter being because they are still actively pushing for the original pay award to take effect.

It’s all a bit mad and unusual really. Zero shareholder protection whatsoever. It’s a fiefdom, and if you want to be a shareholder you need to be happy with that

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123716042#Comment_123716042

fair enough on the flimsy bit but the point i made is that it’s a stretch to say it’s corrupt?

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123716305#Comment_123716305

not at all corrupt - it’s more a case of there being no corporate governance whatsoever, and no minority shareholder protections.

Remember that the role of the CEO of a public company is to delivery shareholder returns. Musk has never performed that fiduciary duty - the shareholders have got their return by ‘myth over management’.

KCross

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123716617#Comment_123716617

Remember that the role of the CEO of a public company is to delivery shareholder returns. Musk has never performed that fiduciary duty - the shareholders have got their return by ‘myth over management’.

There is somewhat of a conflict in your statement there. You rightly say he has a duty to the shareholders but go on to say he hasnt done that and in the same sentence say they got a return!! 🤷… and boy have they got a return over the years! You could argue (im not) that he has fulfilled his fiduciary duty as evidenced in the SP.

The 1922 Committee

Tesla sold only 637 model y in Germany in July 2025. 25th place with VAG product in 7 of the top 10 spots. Sales have imploded. Grünheide can supposedly produce 5000 units per week but they don't have buyers for them.

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123716727#Comment_123716727

you’re absolutely right - there’s a total conflict in the statement. Tesla shareholders have got a return from musks words, not his actions. It’s still a company that derives 90% of its revenue from (effectively) 2 aging car models, and 10% from energy generation.

What does ‘success’ look like for Tesla in 5 years time? Finding a huge source of new revenue is top of that list surely?

Who knows, he might succeed with a massive revenue generator from one of the side projects, but it’s hard to see which one:

Semi (big no)

Roadster (big no)

Optimus (in industry perhaps, definitely not in the home)

Ai (big maybe)

Solar tiles/powerwall (cost prohibitive still)

FSD (highly unlikely - the Chinese include it in the car price)

Robotaxi (in the distant future perhaps)

Cybertruck (big no)

another car? (Unlikely)

So if you’re investing in Tesla today - what’s your investment thesis for revenue growth 5 years from now - it’s incredibly hard to see.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123716863#Comment_123716863

You don't buy Tesla shares to invest in the company's future, you buy them because Elon posts some video of Optimus beatboxing with fart noises and the share price goes up by $300 in the next 10 mins

The majority of the shareholders don't care about the company at this point, it's just a money making game

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123717048#Comment_123717048

it’s a meme stonk

yagan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123716768#Comment_123716768

Even if someone was apathetic about Musk's antics and just appreciated the car for what it is there will now be an extra consideration of more expensive and slow parts supply if the EU factory gets shuttered.

the_amazing_raisin

https://www.electrive.com/2025/08/12/tesla-loses-customer-loyalty-due-to-musk-support-for-trump/

Apparently customers in the US who would remain loyal (bought another Tesla) dropped from 73% to 50% during Musk's public support for Trump and time at DOGE

Its recovered somewhat since then to be on par with Toyota and other traditional automakers

Not exactly earth shattering news but it is interesting to see the effect in numbers

sk8board

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123717561#Comment_123717561

well it’s always been the case that the most likely customer for a new Tesla is an existing Tesla owner - but some of the reasons for that drop might also be down to the lack of choice. I guess you could see the Highland or juniper as being a whole new car, but from there where do you go?

There isn’t the same golf-Passat-Tiguan, or 3 series, 5 series, X5 customer that an OEM would have