John Lennon

MOR316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994379#Comment_119994379

Revolution 9 is what I said.

Should be banged up for recording that

Arghus

I'm not going to defend Revolution #9 from a musical point of view, because, well, it isn't really music, and it if I'm ever listening to The White Album - which is my favourite Beatles album - can I truthfully say that I don't skip that track at least half of the time?

But, I kinda still like the idea of it. To place this completely whacked out bit of avant-garde noise in an album that was going to go into millions of homes. To bring a totally left-field piece of musicque-concrete right into the mainstream: I still think that's essentially a cool thing to have done. Whether 99.9% of the people thought it was high-falutin' shyte is almost irrelevant.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994866#Comment_119994866

Had a listen to it there .Yup pure shyte

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119980460#Comment_119980460

Name me a song that’s worse.

buried

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994283#Comment_119994283

I'm talking about The Beatles. Which Lennon was an intrinsic part of. The Beatles basically created the template for pop music as everybody knows it today. You have 4 lads basically dressed the same, look the same, preened the same, you (the audience) call these strangers by their first names as if you intimately know them, the media follow them around to the showcase of thousands of screaming fans, mainly young people, the media and the record company give a nickname to this hype, record companies demand a certain amount of recorded output released etc. That was literally the genesis of "the beatles". That's the genesis for pop music as it exists today, now, these lads from Liverpool may not have known what they would spawn at that time, but spawn it they did.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997743#Comment_119997743

Peter Andre - Mysterious Girl

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119994468#Comment_119994468

Aye, it's an odd one all right. Though I agree with Arghus above in that I like the idea of it. They were experimenting near constantly with sounds and song forms and quite a lot of these experiments sounded "wrong" to people around them when they first heard them, including the studio techs, but then they came to see what these guys were doing, so figured let these guys run with it.

Sometimes that took years to sink in with some songs. Tomorrow Never Knows an example of that. Here was the runout track on their album Revolver(IMHO if you only have or listen to one of their albums, this is the one) and it lands like a UFO from nowhere, the song before it being a Motown type vibe. Lennon inspired by the Tibetan book of the dead riffs on that, set in a soundscape made up of tape loops played live as they and others in the studio on the day recorded the backing on different tape machines playing loops they had found interesting like seagulls and the like, most played backwards, holding the loops against the tape heads with pencils. While Lennon wanted to sound like he was standing on the top of a mountain, so they put his voice through the rotating speaker of a Leslie organ to get a phasing effect(which they also pioneered. And direct injection for bass). The only recognisable "instrument" being the drums, which provide their own "drone" and in a way very few drummers of their generation would have even thought of*

One of the best uses of music in recentish TV IMHO was this; from Mad Men, using this very song. It illustrates that the Cool Guy of the 50's was ageing, becoming passe and a new generation were listening to and thinking things he just didn't and couldn't understand anymore and he couldn't come to terms with that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ftzx1RtInw4

I gather the production paid hundreds of thousands of dollars for the rights. Worth it IMHO

And this is the non crap Revolution in case of confusion. 😁 Only a couple of years previously to this they were the moptops in suits singing about love. Here they stood in the same old positions as they had on stuff like She Loves You, but everything else had shifted gears(though they threw in doo wop backing vocals on a protest song). And for the craic, the other side of this single was Hey Jude for feck's sake. As you do. Two radically different songs on the same single. That's a major part of what made them special. Speaking of shifting gears and Hey Jude. Simple song, goes along merrily enough until he sings ..."and any time you feel the pain"... and it really shifts gears and then they're able to shift gears again later on. From the bones of a uing McCartney had sung to Lennon's son Julian as he was driving him around one day(apparently McCartney was far more of a dad to him than Lennon and that continued throughout his childhood and beyond).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGLGzRXY5Bw

* I might sound like I was dissing Charlie Watts earlier. I wasn't, he was bloody brilliant and perfect for the Stones, a swing jazz drummer who redefined rock and roll, but Ringo could have played everything Charlie did, but not nearly the other way around.

I distinctly remember the morning in Ireland after John Lennon was shot dead. I was about 18/19, kind of more a childhood memory of Beatles more than anything. I was due to go to work on late shift & attend Christmas party late. My mother stirred me “did you hear John Lennon’s DEAD, SHOT dead?! “ it stuck me I’d heard the name before, probably many times, and indeed I most certainly grew up early screaming out Beatles tunes until I learned to be more tuneful. That night in the Christmas celebration venue all that was played nonstop was “So this is Christmas (War is Over)”, sadly a lack of such sentiment this year to be merited or found.

Strumms

Watts gets a star more then Ringo as a drummer for me . Tumbling Dice and Loving Cup are just two tracks id proffer as evidence as I listened to Exile on Main St last night and just , class drumming.. proper Rock n Roll, swing, jazz, flashy yet superlatively understated when required.

Maybe it was just Ringo was not required to be as ‘good’.. his drumming on Helter Skelter I love… that’s impressive.. but a lot of the Beatles it’s more the song that.. is the star…

Lennon solo had Jim Keltner, one of the best session musicians going and Alan White too play drums on his solo stuff…Ringo wouldn’t be in the same league as either..…

Look at Ringo play, in any Beatles live footage… he’s just keeping time, not a hell of a lot of improvisation or flamboyance… rudimentary really, reliable yes but…

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997996#Comment_119997996

Mysterious Girl gives me warm summer holiday vibes🤣

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998077#Comment_119998077

I was 15 and it was the second in a series of incidents of my mother waking me to tell me that a celebrity had a died. The previous one was Elvis in 77 and the next was Marvin Gaye. My mother was the Breaking Sky News of her day!

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998460#Comment_119998460

Well live he literally was just keeping time for the most part. It's one reason why they gave up touring, they could barely hear themselves play so had to simplify it. Anything fancy like fills would be lost. No foldback speakers, their amps miked to the house PA and thousands of teenagers screaming.

Actually Jim Keltner rates him very highly and considers him one of the best "feel" drummers in the business(Keltner also finds it funny that Ringo never practices drumming and never really has). The song like you say was the star and he played each one as a part of a standalone and rarely repeated himself. Something we can't say to nearly the same degree about Charlie. Helter Skelter couldn't be more different than Help, or Rain, or Let it be. Their musical range was much wider than the Stones so he had to go along with that and as they got weirder he had to keep up, and did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTnxmn2jWjo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998689#Comment_119998689

I was two and a half when Lennon was murdered. Don't remember that obviously but I do remember hearing Imagine constantly. It's my earliest musical memory. I'm assuming it was when the song was re-released because of his death. Early '81.

Barcley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998689#Comment_119998689

That's interesting, if someone were to ask me, who were the first singers whose deaths you distinctly remember and that had an impact on you? I would have said Elvis, Lennon and Marvin Gaye. Since then the only other person would be Kurt Cobain.

Sardonicat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999510#Comment_119999510

You should look up his quote for when George asked him what he wanted for "Here Comes the Sun". Can't search at minute myself as in A&E but it's very funny. Anyone listening to the drumming on that saying Ringo could only keeps time needs their ears syringed.

Graces7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997749#Comment_119997749

I was a teenager at the height of all this. Not interested in pop music etc but a friend at school roped me in to to go a live concert in Liverpool ( Lancashire lass here). Never seen so many folk crammed into the city .. Scary at times and someone put a high heel into my foot.. and in the theatre all you could hear was the screaming! They were beyond any ... Carried away.... We all bought the LPs and some of the songs stay with me to this day. Better than the Rolling Stones in all ways..I did not follow them onwards. But at that early time in Liverpool they were local lads made good..

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976687#Comment_119976687

I'm sure McCarthy feels a little better when he realizes it's probably because Lennon first disappeared up his own hole then got shot.

Ide say Paul feels like he drew the long straw.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119997996#Comment_119997996

Ohwoooooo !

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999775#Comment_119999775

Shít, hope everything turns out well for you S.

Sardonicat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120000525#Comment_120000525

I'm grand, it's my 91 yo Dad, again. Thanks Wibbs.

TooTired123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999627#Comment_119999627

Marc Bolan also died in 77, his star was starting to fade.

Karen Carpenter was the early 80s. It was the first I’d heard of eating disorders and it was very misunderstood at the time. Poor Karen. What a voice.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119999775#Comment_119999775

Classy.

you can maybe get me an appointment seeing as you are traipsing through various hospital departments ;)

Sardonicat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120001712#Comment_120001712

Just the one department, and still here over 12 hours later. 91 yo patient on trolley in corridor by a window. Classy is not a word that springs to mind.

NewbridgeIR

Elvis and Marc Bolan - they're the first two musician deaths I remember. Both became musical heroes of mine.

From Elvis In Memphis and The Slider - two of the greatest albums ever

interlocked

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119976918#Comment_119976918

Wait, how the hell, did Harrison end up in a position in the 70's, whereby he had to re-mortgage his house to fund a film?

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119998077#Comment_119998077

Tomorrow never Knows.

I never heard of it until you mentioned it, so i went and listened to it.. WOW !!!..... Its been on repeat .....

That is a kicker of a song! Songs like something Fatboy Slim or Chemical Bros. would come up with.

Really really different to what the Beatles were producing, and what anyone else was really recording at the time!

(really great song for that piece in Mad Men also ....)

EmmetSpiceland

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003157#Comment_120003157

If you get a chance give the anthology version a go as well. It’s an early take that’s a bit slower, not as good as the final version, in my opinion, but still worth a listen.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120003157#Comment_120003157

It's a bit Chemical Brothers alright. IIRC they used to play it before their gigs.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120002006#Comment_120002006

They had a famously crappy record deal and an even worse merchandising deal. They only got 10% on that one, never mind all the bootleg stuff they couldn't get a handle on. It's estimated they lost tens of (1960's)millions on that alone. On top of that they're were crucified by the British tax system at the time. Harrison even wrote his song Taxman about it. They were paying over 90% of their earnings in tax. 😲 When he wrote that song their accountant had just informed them that even though they overall had big earnings, because of tax, bad deals and expenses George and Ringo were in a vulnerable position financially not far off bankruptcy and Paul and John soon would be. And this was halfway through their time as a band and after all the world tours, films etc.

One reason they set up their own label Apple was to try and wrest control back and about the biggest external factor in their breakup was three of them wanted "supermanager" Allen Klein to manage them, but McCartney trusted him as far as he could throw him and wasn't willing to sign with him. He was dead right as he screwed over them and the Stones and others(the reason the Stones legged it to France to record in the early 70's was because he hadn't paid their UK back taxes. Instead it was resting in his account). In that Let it be documentary you can hear some talk about him where one of their guys says to John he's sus about Klein and to be wary. At another point the guy who managed Lennon & McCartney's publishing shows up talking about business matters and they're clearly and obviously frosty towards him.

When they split they weren't in the best shape financially at all. John and Paul could cruise way more because of the earnings from their back catalogue, Ringo and George couldn't. Plus they earned a fair chunk from touring and hadn't been on the road in five years. Paul got himself a much better deal as a solo artist, Lennon too and were producing hits and McCartney was doing big world tours after a couple of years so the money really started to roll in for him. Yoko turned out to be a canny money manager and that helped. Got into real estate and the like. Ringo did a few flics, had a couple of singles hits, even got into backing and designing for a hip furniture company. Yep. Here he is pimping his wares on the BBC's Blue Peter kids show just 18 months after their split. A member of a band so big and so world famous it's nearly incomprensible to us today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvM5XL5xAts

George had a hit with his first solo album and other singles then kinda faded out. If they had been around from say the 90's onwards when this stuff was much more professional, controlled and far more protective of acts they'd have been near billionaires.

So yeah with the exception of Paul who was making serious bank within a few years of the split and was one of the biggest music earners of all, the others weren't nearly so rich. Their real money from being Beatles really only started to kick in by the 80's and CD's and far better contracts and their 90's Anthology series and CD's books etc really made them properly rich and they've been earning bazillions ever since.

So by the time of Life of Brian, no George wasn't poor and had money coming in, but he wasn't rich the way we would expect someone from the "biggest band ever" might or should be and certainly didn't have a spare million pounds to dip into. His biggest asset by far was his gaff, so that's what he leveraged. And he did that for a friend. His close mates always said he was beyond generous as a friend. Would give you the shirt off his back kinda thing.

interlocked

Thanks for going to the trouble to explain all that, Wibbs, very interesting

CGI_Livia_Soprano

Another issue with Harrison’s finances was that the Beatles songs he wrote until 1968 were published under the Northern Songs umbrella, which was a publishing company shared between The Beatles, their management (Brian Epstein and his NEMS agency), and a music publisher named Dick James.

Long story short the “the Beatles were screwed” stuff comes from the fact that once the company was made into a public company, Dick James and his firm owned a larger slice of the Northern Songs pie than the rest of The Beatles combined. Bear in mind that Northern Songs only existed to publish Beatles songs, and yet the Beatles themselves were completely at their publishing partners’ mercy. This culminated in Michael Jackson buying up the Northern Songs catalogue later on. All Paul McCartney could do but look on, aghast, thumbs aloft.

Harrison suffered the most from that particular deal as he only earned 1.6% of the royalties from his own songs until 1968 (the same as Starr, who didn’t write a single song for Northern Songs), the rest was shared amongst the rest of The Beatles, James, et al.

He formed his own publishing company later on which isolated the likes of Here Comes The Sun from getting bought out by Michael Jackson but Harrison effectively made nothing from the songs he wrote for the Beatles’ monster-selling early albums.