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John Lennon

  • 08-12-2022 6:36pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭


    Surprised there's no thread on him, this being the anniversary of his shooting. Weirdly, it's the day the Christmas run in starts for me, do alot of driving and radio on, discussions about Lennon and then his Christmas song being played. That song for me is THE Christmas song... Happy Xmas (War is Over).

    There's not much point going into his legacy and influence as its well known. Contemporary music, songwriting, how albums were recorded, pretty much everything we associate with modern music, starts with the Beatles, they changed the game. And they were led and driven, particularly in the early days, predominantly by Lennon. And I'm not a huge Beatles fan, but whether you like them or not, you can't question their influence.

    Music was pushed and experimented beyond this point. So when we listen to our favourite contemporary songs, we owe their existence to Lennon. Without his insistence of writing and pushing his own material, that change between the 50s/60s may never have happened, and music would of went down a very different path.

    Music relates to people in many different ways, can effect and help people, make them happy, intertwined with popular culture and our day to day lives. And in many ways, our modern outlook through music is thanks to John Lennon. We owe him a debt for that. His legacy or influence will never be matched!



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 24,453 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    There is a real gulf in quality, class and consistency between his Beatles and solo work.

    a lot of his solo stuff is absolute tripe. He could never be motivated to actually tour as a solo artist. Ok he didn’t need the cash but, he could have had his pick of musicians to play with, any venue…. Any city… any country… That Live In New York album was a charity thing done over two concerts on the same day…



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,591 ✭✭✭buried


    Can't stand any of their stuff. The whole vibe about them is one of utter depression for me. Yeah they were highly influential within the realm of commercial pop music, but how has that turned out? Commercial Pop music is now the most odious form of trash that has ever been associated with the term 'art'. The internet saved and highlighted real new groundbreaking music, and highlighted real groundbreakers of the past, and the Beatles had zero to do with internet communications.

    War is over is an absolute depression session, especially this time of year. "so this is christmas...and what have you done?" Ahh....... turned your noise off John, that's what I done.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,591 ✭✭✭buried


    For me. You and anybody else can get whatever you like out of it, and fair play to ye.

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    I'm the first to accept what's happening now is a result of us downloading music for free, new creative bands can't make a living to push boundaries.

    But for several decades after Lennon this wasn't the case. Accept it or not, without him, we'd still be listening to Elvis and Bill Haley and the Comments, musicians covering other musician's. Lennon changed that.

    Lennon was the first man in contemporary music to play and persist with original music whether people like it or not. Without him, music as we know it today wouldnt exist. That simple.

    Lennon was the first in westernised contemporary music to compose original music, play it and succeed. It changed history. Everything we know today followed from that



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,453 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    whats happening now is record companies wanting instant $$$$$$$$ for the least investment, both time and money.

    They want it back off the first album and singles from the album.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,151 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    I concur. People were slating the feck out of "manufactured pop" before Napster came on the scene



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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,884 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Don’t think it’s that much of an exaggeration tbh. The Beatles led the way in bands as we understand them today, especially in writing their own songs. The only thing I’d say is that it was as much McCartney, if not even more so, than Lennon. Anyway you look at it I think it’s very hard to argue that both of them weren’t massive pioneers.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Is it? What came before? Even the Stones were doing blues cover album's at that point. The concept of original full studio albums didn't even enter the sphere of commercial music at the time. Lennon changed that. After, every band was trying to create original music. That's when contemporary music as we know it began. Lennon paved the way. Everything that came after is thanks to him, and as I said, I'm not a huge Beatles fan. Like them or not, their influence will never be matched!



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    And they weren't commercial pop! They were original songwriters. The first in history as we know music today. Westlife is commercial pop. Manufactured rubbish. Comprehend the difference ye?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,954 ✭✭✭The Golden Miller


    Well said



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭Hangdogroad


    War Is Over (Give Peace A Chance) isn't a Beatles song.



  • Registered Users Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭Rothko


    Musicians can be both original songwriters and commercial pop.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,004 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    The Stones didn't just have old blues songs to cover. Just like the Beatles they covered recent songs by rock songwriters like Holly, Bo Diddley, Little Richard and the hugely influential Chuck Berry, someone who was also a big influence on the Beatles. As John Lennon said if you want to give rock and roll another name, call it Chuck Berry. Similarly they covered recent songs by Carl Perkins, a major influence on George Harrison.

    Certainly, but the Beatles were also quite different to the Stones and the other influences in that they were far more diverse in musical output than their peers and got ever moreso as they progressed beyond their early "pop" songs(that could be complex, surprising even odd too). TBH I found their covers with the exception of Twist and Shout a bit lacklustre. They were far better being them.

    No other group around them could have songs as wildly different as Tomorrow never knows, Yellow Submarine, Love you too, Eleanor Rigby, Got to get you into my life and Taxman. On the same album(while knocking out a contractual single Paperback Writer/Rain((much of Oasis' DNA) and a couple of promo films for it) . The Stones had cracking songs, even the occasional out there song, but settled down into a groove and stayed there. The Beachboys had some incredible songs and a couple of incredible albums, but again tended not to stray too far from their "sound" and then tapped out pretty quickly. The competition between them and the Beatles(mostly McCartney) was fruitful for both, but was over within two years and the Beatles kept going.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭silliussoddius




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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,349 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    Must be incredibly annoying for McCartney to see Lennon get all the credit for the “out there” creativity when Lennon did barely anything after 1967.

    The tide is turning…



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    Can't believe no one has brought up "Luck of the Irish" or "Sunday Bloody Sunday" yet.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,613 ✭✭✭NewbridgeIR


    I love the lyrics of Luck Of The Irish

    Its parent album Some Time In New York City is fascinatingly awful in parts.

    Macca was much more consistent IMHO - Ram, Red Rose Speedway & McCartney II are classics



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Imagine is the worst song ever written.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,204 ✭✭✭MOR316


    McCartney didn't lose it. He had the opportunity to buy it first and he declined. Jackson told him he was going to buy it and others and McCartney was OK with that.

    Jackson then gave Chuck Berry, Sammy Davis, Little Richard and various other black artists their music rights back for free. McCartney expected to get his back, for nothing or at a cut price and Jackson said no. Hence McCartney becoming bitter about it down the years. Which is laughable considering the other music rights he owned that belonged to other artists.

    Anyways, he has them now so all's well that ends well...Or whatever the phrase is. I'm not big into phrases

    Big fan of The Beatles and their innovation and songwriting btw. One of my all time favourite artists and along with Chuck Berry, Michael Jackson, Robert Johnson and Jimi Hendrix, in my opinion, the most important of the 20th century, if not of all time. But, there is no question that at times, they put out some incredibly bad stuff. Revolution 9 being a big example.

    The same for most artists I guess

    McCartney is a phenomenal bass player, which is sometimes sadly overlooked due to his songwriting



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,591 ✭✭✭buried


    Never said it was. I said I can't stand ANY of their stuff.

    "The first in history as we know music today" What absolute nonsense.

    Westlife is commercial pop, hundreds of thousands of girls screaming like lunatics at 4 haircuts on a stage singing songs. And who started that craic? Woody Guthrie?

    "You have disgraced yourselves again" - W. B. Yeats



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    Surprised there's no thread on him, this being the anniversary of his shooting.

    Imagine!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 54,267 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    John, the engine of the Beatles!



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