Forced "fun" in the workplace

A French man sued his former employer for dismissal due to him not wishing to be part of the company's social culture. And recently won.

It's a dreadfully toxic phenomenon. I lasted six weeks in a place where they monitored who you went on breaks with, what you did after you finished lunch, dressing up and taking part in "fun" days was obligatory. And getting dangerously wasted was totally fine on staff nights out (ironically this was a health related business). Also gossip was highly encouraged. I'm outgoing, friendly, socially confident (not that there's anything wrong with being shy) but I want my "me" time. On my break I want to go for a walk by myself sometimes. This company was completely intolerant of anything that made someone seem like an individual. I used to dread going in there.

Good for that guy in France: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/11/27/france-man-fired-company-drinking-culture/

Barcley

I remember in one of my first jobs, my department had a sports day and everyone was expected to participate. I had a non-serious disability that I didn't want my colleagues to know about so when I didn't participate I got a lot of flak, to them I was just being anti-social. Nobody should be forced to do these 'extra-curricular' activities if they don't want to, and if they don't want to then there may be a good reason why.

igCorcaigh

Not forced fun, but... I worked in a small company (<10), in a small building. Lunch every day consisted of everyone playing cards in the tiny kitchen area. For the whole hour. Every day.

I just wanted to sit at my desk eating my sandwich, alone :(

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953587#Comment_119953587

"Sports day"... Christ... I hated that at school. I'm never going through that charade again, as an adult.

L1011

Worked in a business with a sports day. Didn't go to the first one and there were lots of questions asked. The next year their insurer told them to stop, thank feck, or else I'd have never lasted the seven years I did there.

road_high

Yea, I’ve felt this too- the boundaries between your private life and work seem to be more blurred than ever and this socialising crap seems to be an extension of work duties now too as part of “team building”. Making it very awkward to get off if you’re not interested or have other commitments (that I didn’t see why need to be explained post 5.00 pm). As someone who is quite private I generally loathe these nights

Strumms

Hopefully he sends the managers a bottle of cheap wine and a thank you card 🥳

Motivator

It’s the time of year again where I’m preparing for annual pre-Christmas fake weekend away with my wife. It’s just so unfortunate that it clashes with my work night out every single year. Nobody ever questions it and I always have a great time.

Gregor Samsa

I remember working for a company in the UK and they were insisting I get up on stage and sing and dance and tell jokes. Threatened to fire me if I didn’t. I went straight up to my boss and said “What the fúck? Do you think this place is Butlins???”

Unfortunately, it actually was.

corner of hells

Forced fun ? I was an apprentice on building sites in the late 80s early 90s , that was forced fun. No Health and Safety , exhibition style drinking every Thursday and guaranteed punch up at the Christmas break up.One of my colleagues took a few days off one week to do a bank raid and managed to get himself shot dead by Gardai.

igCorcaigh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119953797#Comment_119953797

That read like a @fesshole tweet ;)

Work nights out are okay within reason. Staff bonding/team building, on the other hand….

BrianD3

Leaving aside the case described in the OP, I think the "need" to attend work fun events is often partly a perception - people are insecure and want to impress so when the boss says "the Christmas party is good craic, you should attend", they interpret that as an instruction. To make matters worse, the employee's malleability and openness to suggestion may result in them being marked out as weak, facilitating subsequent bullying.

I've seen this in workplaces with new staff who felt pressured into going to a Christmas party (which was paid for by the employee) and later admitted that they felt like an idiot for doing so.

This sort of stuff doesn't work on me - one advantage of being bullied and an unsociable weirdo in school is growing a pair of balls and becoming relatively immune to peer pressure at a young age.

Larbre34

I've managed teams of people of various sizes for 20 years or so and I think I've done a decent enough job of it. I've learned and practice the following.

• Never ever treat people like children, singularly or collectively.
• Respect people's individual skills and give them ownership of their role, to perform it and innovate within it as they want, so long as outcomes are up to scratch.
• Always be listening, both formally and informally. If there are grumblings about something, chances are it can be changed or improved. If it cannot, explain why and reiterate expectations.
• People are perfectly entitled to do what they want with their own time. Any organisational culture needs to be reasonable and proportional and only extends to work days and work sponsored events. Other than that, mind your own damn business.

Crocodile Booze

Wouldnt mind escaping up her tunnel...

Get out.

Cup

Edit - TLDR. I see the point in enforced fun. With the right people. 😄

Hangdogroad

That Secret Santa bollocks, pizza parties, sports Jersey day. The previous place I worked in used to do all that kind of crap.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954143#Comment_119954143

Cringe. I bet the bosses thought they were mad craic. 🤮

road_high

Had forgotten the Secret Santa bollox. Had that in a job I was in about ten years ago. Very female orientated office- bitchiest place i ever worked. There were ones that I thought were bff’s…- 6 months later they were stabbing eachother on the back.

Thankfully that was my one and only Christmas there. The Xmas party was also an almost “compulsory” night away thing in athlone.

Ubbquittious

Everyone loves to hate the work nights out but if you aren't in probation and you don't go too heavy on the goose eggs you might get a shaggeen out of it

ednwireland

we have "spirit weeks" complete b*****x we have a people director also a waste of space. also hr and talent management. again no idea what they do. we get free t shirts with company slogans again a waste of money . we have a client centricity program instead of well actually looking after clients. just waiting for the house of cards to collapse really.

Cup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954271#Comment_119954271

Or just, ya know, have a good night out.

I've been to many work nights out and really enjoyed them. I also quite like secret Santa. This is the point though - they should be for morale-building, not team building. And optional. They suit younger workers more too. Older workers may not have as much interest or time.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954019#Comment_119954019

I don't mind the team building things etc but WFH has found me in a bit of a predicament.

I work for a company the other side of the country.

They have team building events every so often than include an all day event, dinner and an overnight in a hotel, all of which are the other end of the country for me.

I constantly feel under pressure to go but don't want to because getting to them and home is a major pain in the ass.

We only have one car post COVID so getting public transport there and back is just time consuming.

I'm going to the Christmas party next week, which is fine but I'm going to have a quiet word with my boss and say I appreciate being included in the events but I'm more than happy to stay at home and work, because that's what I'm paid for at the end of the day.

Pintman Paddy Losty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954475#Comment_119954475

Rubbish.

This whole thread and the people replying screams "I'm the office oddball and Christmas parties violates my human rights."

Total dirge. I love the Christmas party. Vast majority of people do. Let your hair down, neck a few gratis pints, and neck one of the swamp donkeys in the call centre. It's a great night out.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954475#Comment_119954475

They suit younger workers more too. Older workers may not have as much interest or time.

Exactly

Been there done that, quite happy to give them a miss.

Ubbquittious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954417#Comment_119954417

Good night out surely involves a shag

TooTired123

Im almost 20 years in my current job, a job I love in a place and with colleagues I love. We’ve recently had the previous manager retire after 25 years and it’s only since the new manager started I’ve realized the level of……coercion surrounding attendance at social events under the old regime.

The Christmas night out and the Summer Get Together ( all expenses paid) were obligatory. No excuses. “Mary in Kilkenny office has lost her husband, the funeral is on Friday, you John and Jayleen are going. You all know her from the training days in limerick. John, you drive and you can collect the girls here. John you can put in for expenses and it’ll go in as a normal days work”. End of conversation. “Derek in Waterford is retiring on Wednesday. You remember he worked here for 6 months in 2012. There’s drinks and nibbles in the hotel across the road from the office at 5.00 and there’s going to be a presentation from the area manager so you and I will go you can drive or I will”

Its not happening now.

Cup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954507#Comment_119954507

To be fair, it always improves a night. But I don’t see the point in sleeping with an office randomer just because of the festive season.

Out of all the secret santas I've been involved in, I have gotten a grand total of one gift back. What did I get ? Socks.

I've witnessed christmas jumper day. I managed to get away from that for a few years by saying "I forgot".

I managd to invent a couple of funerals for the night away. "My uncle died, so can't attend".

Finish work, and a few random pints. Great! Forced socials, no thanks.

Christmas jumper day - great. I enjoy it. But others aren't bothered, and that's fine too. Nothing forced can be fun.

markpb

Maybe my workplace is the exception. The turnout at the Christmas party is about 70% but if people don’t want to come, I’ve never heard anyone comment on it at all, especially now that most of IT had decamped to distant parts of Ireland and can’t feasibly make it. The people who are there seem to be there because they want to be (or at least enjoy a free meal and drinks).

There are some Kris Kringle things but they’re independently organised by groups of people and not by the company. It’s all very informal.

StupidLikeAFox

I was once in a job where we had a meeting on Monday to discuss goals and a meeting on Friday to discuss how the goals went for the week.

The problem was you had to pick two work goals and two personal goals. Work goals - grand, no issue. Personal goals ended up being "I will try to eat healthier" , "I will try to go for a walk at least twice this week", "Im going to get a haircut" - it was pathetic. All irrelevant bullshit and in the name of team building/bonding or whatever. It didn't last long for me anyway

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954495#Comment_119954495

No, it doesn't. It's about not being forced to waste your free time on unpaid company horsesh*t. If you want to go, go but let people who have better things to do with their time stay out of it without the drama.

bb12

Personally I have zero tolerance for any of that cr^p and always just say NO to all those extra curricular activities. Fortunately I'm really good at my job and valuable to the company, so they leave me alone and never create any drama about my non participation in such events.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954548#Comment_119954548

Probably isn't the exception. Most places I've worked in are similar. People have a choice in whether they go to the work nights out, or take part in the office wackiness. But as the case I linked to, and one experience I had, show, there are companies where it's frowned upon if you'd just prefer to do your job to the best of your ability, be a pleasant person and team player on the clock, and leave it at that. You work to improve your personal life - the two shouldn't have to be blurred.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954322#Comment_119954322

I've never heard such bullshyt in all my life.

And I've heard some bullshyt....

Whoever unquestionably imported American office culture, unquestionably, into this Country, wants bloody shooting.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058274436/forced-fun-in-the-workplace

Health insurance by any chance? Night’s out on the company tab ?

whisky_galore

The workplace competitive drinking sessions are starting to grate. This year I've started excusing myself from them. I'd rather drink with people I choose to drink with and at my own pace.

bad2thebone

Ah yes forced fun in the work place. Where your manager tries to be cool and like the rest of the staff. You're all meant to join in and tell them it's a great idea.

First one to put on a Christmas hat at the Christmas party, arrives dressed in jeans and a casual shirt while the rest of the plebs are dressed like he does during the week.

He dance's like an idiot,sings along to the band or whatever the DJ plays. You try to ignore it, but really he's trying to make it look like he's cool.

You should all join in and act like you're not thinking he's a langer, he's so sound after a few drinks. If you were any way naive you'd think he liked you and your reality is turned upside down.

Then there's those fun day's out with IT companies where you're all put into a team to walk around Blarney Castle, Birr Castle or the Botanical gardens to find clues and sort out a puzzle. The gardener's and grounds men are tipping away at their work, while the idiots are going around with pieces of paper looking for clues. Oisine from accounts decides to be the leader. He see's a gardener called Pat and asks him does the word box have any significant meaning.

Pats clipping away at the box hedging, looks at Oisine ,sure you know the rest. They move along and are trying to figure out the meaning of formal, theres Susan deadheading a climbing rose on the wall at the entrance of the formal garden which has a sign saying formal garden....

Then they get really excited when they're nearing the end, and the last clue is, ring's a bell.... Right in front of them there's a bell tower over looking the vegetable garden.

Theres William a guy in his early 60's weather beaten but content and happy in himself tying up tomatoes, Oisine trying to be cool, hello there we're looking for something to do with a Bell. Willy decides to play along and play dumbbell with Oisine, say's you're a dead ringer of my nephew and so on

Then there's the day out surfing in Lahinch or Castlegregory, when they all try to get into a wetsuit, most of them put it on backwards, eventually they get to the water. Then they all learn the basics, out they go for a paddle. Little do they know that the maintenance guy who paints, fixes doors, unblocks drains and toilets etc is an efficient surfer his name is Brian. Anyhow they all try their best to stand up and catch a wave, eventually Sarah the HR manager gets it before the lad's and they all go nuts with excitement , meanwhile Brian is out the back shredding wave's and flying in, he's ignored because he's just the maintenance guy. But they all worship Sarah because she's rather attractive and has an answer for everything. Brian doesn't give a toss, he just works there for the money. Sarah's done it again,out done the boys. On the way back, it's all about Sarah, while Brian was getting shacked, ripping through barrels doing cut backs. He's ripped and has the cut of a viking. Most of the women fancy him, Oisine and crew resent him because he's not one of them.

They all say they love surfing and are going to buy wetsuits and board's, they have no intention.

They all take pictures of each with their surfboards when they get back. Still saying they're all going to take up surfing....

They head for something to eat, most of them are on soy...

Glaceon

I worked for an Irish company for about 6 years, which was then taken over by a British multinational crowd at the beginning of 2020. Horrible altogether. They had this in-house system that would, at the start of each month, e-mail you a list of 6 employees from anywhere in the world. You were obliged to contact these staff and then rate them based on your experience. At the next month’s company meeting, the employees who got the best ratings were revealed, as well as naming and shaming those who didn’t do it. I remember on one occasion that I got the company CEO in the UK. He never even bothered to get back to me, but he wasn’t called out of course!

I lasted about 8 or 9 months before jumping ship, It was a busy enough job without wasting my time on social crap.

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954922#Comment_119954922

Hi Brian, that’s not how I remember it at all. You got caught in a rip and had to be rescued by Sarah. Then you stood on a weaver fish and William and I had to carry you up to spent the rest of the day at the Lifeguard hut with your foot in a basin of hot water.

Oh, and my name is spelt Oisín. I thought we were through this already when you messed up my office door sign. Twice.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954944#Comment_119954944

Jesus that sounds excruciating.

"Rating people"... Ffs

pgj2015

I remember starting this awful office job, they were trying to get me to play 5 a side with them on day 1. 😟 Good job they didn't push that or I would have played like Joey Barton.

pgj2015

😂 That was hilarious but would they invite Brian on these kind of bonding sessions?

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954946#Comment_119954946

There wasn't any weaver fish because it was February Oisín , and there wasn't any lifeguard on duty that afternoon. As you remember it was lines of whitewater coming in that day unless you could paddle out the back, you took a bodyboard and couldn't duckdive through it, so you just played around in the foam.

As for the office door, I suggested a locksmith because I was just a handyman... but you wouldn't listen to me and the pay was dismal... You get what you pay for. Anyhow that was only a month before your company hit an iceberg and sunk straight to the bottom. The lads still say I wonder how Edward Smith's doing now, that's what they nicknamed you.

You often told me how miserable you felt despite doing everything that society demands. You used to see the surf board on my car as we clocked out. And you'd say, you're very lucky to just shoot the breeze and you should never have settled down, and you always wanted to study horticulture but your parents made you do accountancy.

Reconcile that Oisín..

Gregor Samsa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955044#Comment_119955044

I see you added me to your enemy list again, Brian. You’re not supposed to use the office intranet for stuff like this.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955081#Comment_119955081

Love it, lol

You got me there Oshene...

You win again, I'll slink back to the basement 🤣

Cup

Ah lads, you would hate my job! First, most of us work remotely - that's an important point.

We have morning stand ups for a half an hour four times a week. We spend the first 15 minutes talking socially, partially in a our office's second language, which we are all either proficient in, or are studying, and then we move onto work topics for the second half. Our work is fairly dynamic, and our team is small enough, so we could have new projects landing or updates to projects that concern us on a daily basis.

We have a social 30 minute morning call with our partner on the day that we don't have a stand up, and then we have a team lunch that day for an hour.

We have two other social calls with other teams once a week. One of them is from 5.30pm to 6.30pm, so it does eat into our free time a bit, but also into our working time. We chat and play games remotely on this one. I usually go to this, and we have a bit of craic. The other one I actually don't join because it's mostly made up of people from a different location, and they end up chatting about stuff going on in their office. I just stopped going to those after sitting silently and working in the background while trying to look semi-interested on screen.

Then we have buddies. We all have a randomly assigned buddy, who we chat with at least a week.

The we have the walking and talking call once a week, where we all go out for a walk, go grocery shopping, whatever, for an hour, while chatting. That's across about seven different teams and we get split into groups of four or five. I'd join this one maybe half of the time.

The Christmas party is something that we're very much encouraged to attend. Very few people don't go, unless we have a valid reason. We also have a Christmas team dinner, and we are travelling to, and staying at, our office location for two nights for these. We tell clients that we cannot travel to them on those days, because being on office site is the priority.

We have an annual two days away during summer (Thursday, Friday), where the days are split between presentations and activities. I missed last year's for a valid reason, but it was very valid. Nothing frivolous like cousin Susan coming to visit would be an accepted reason to miss this.

In my last job, we had weekends away twice a year where you really were expected to attend. Skiing in the winter, and bbq beside a lake in the summer. All paid for, and that's great, but I wasn't into a weekend away sharing a room with one of my colleagues.

But, for my current company, most of this stuff is built in purely because we are all working remotely, and I have to say that I see the benefit. The remote working was put into place because of Covid and many of us weren't around in this company pre-Covid when people actually worked in the office and would get to know each other with casual chats during the day or over lunch.

I was talking with one of the guys from another team recently who doesn't have the morning calls, or lunches, and he felt very isolated from his team. There are other ways around this, but I would miss our calls now if we didn't have them. Sure, I don't want to be best friends with all of my colleagues, but it's nice to have a relationship with them, and we all genuinely like each other on my team. We have a very fair working environment, if we have personal appointments, etc., there's no problem with taking them during the day, as we are all adults and we know what work needs to be done and are trusted to do it. If we had to miss a call because of work, that's absolutely fine. If, occasionally, we were working late and wanted to skip the morning call for a sleep instead, that's fine - we'd get caught up on anything important work-wise afterwards. We're strongly encouraged to take lunch and breaks, as the hazard of getting glued to your work when working remotely is widely acknowledged. I'd much prefer this to a clinical environment where we're expected to sit at our desks 9-1 and 2-6, and have no communication outside of work only.

Actually, edit to add, we try not to do overhours, unless really necessary, and where we do we get either x1.5 in money or in time in lieu. x2 if it’s after 10pm, or on weekends or public holidays. Travel time is included in this. We can’t sell our holidays either (as we could in previous jobs), so you really do take them. It’s not the worst place I suppose!

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955129#Comment_119955129

Obviously Elon Musk didn't give you the shaft then 😜

pgj2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0jNLEEDsDw

this video is fitting here I think.