DIED SUDDENLY

US3

Anyone watch this new documentary yet it's about the vaccines I presume. Hopefully I get to watch it the weekend if it's worth it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058273083/died-suddenly

Based on the title and how these conspiracy documentaries usually go I'm suspecting it's going to be a long parade of a handful of cases where there they spend a lot of time talking about how fit and healthy someone was before they died. Probably sprinkling in stuff to make them sound like a very sweet and nice person. Then will make the insinuation that the vaccine caused their deaths. I will guess they will have some interviews with the families, but I will bet few of them will actually directly say it was the vaccines.

At no point will the documentary actually provide any verifiable evidence to link the deaths to the vaccines and will most likely misrepresent and lie about any evidence that contradicts their narrative.

They also probably won't actually make any direct accusations about what they are claiming and will hide behind the "just asking questions" shtick to make their movie more marketable to a wider audience.

There will be a few talking heads any any cursory look into them will show a long lucrative career in being an anti vaxx crank.

Also there will be no attempt to explain why we should care about the handful of cases they will report on while conspiracy theorists are dismissing millions of deaths due to covid as statistically insignificant and "a pittance".

Honestly I wouldn't waste my time with any documentary like this. If anyone does please keep in mind my predictions and use them as a starting point to actually question what you are told.

US3

I asked if anyone had watched it and you managed to reply with 6 paragraphs with actually haven watched it?

Sweet Talkin Romeo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914039#Comment_119914039

there's two of them in it OP

for reasons unknown to me (and many others also), they seem to keep a 24hr vigil up in here

rarely post here meself; like to read the threads tho,,

haven't seen the doco :( 🙂🙂

bigroad

Where is it on.

Quazzie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914050#Comment_119914050

Got a big debut....

.. On Twitter.

Gotta provide for all the nutters!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914039#Comment_119914039

Yes. Because conspiracy movies like this are pretty samey in those ways.

That's my opinion on why watching a documentary like that isn't worth it.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2022/11/22/new-died-suddenly-film-pushes-unfounded-depopulation-claims-about-covid-19-vaccine/amp/

I was wrong however in predicting that the movie would be more coy about the conspiracy theory they're suggesting and it seems they are directly stating that there is a global conspiracy to depopulate the world using the vaccine.

bigroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914061#Comment_119914061

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914061#Comment_119914061

Don't do Twitter, but thanks anyway.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914161#Comment_119914161

Ive heard that about Twitter so many times from conspiracy theorists here. Strange coincidence.

As for the mocumentary, it’ll be just like all the other ones by conspiracy theorists. Made up and actually mocking their beliefs.

bigroad

Is there any Stats in this country for sudden death heart attack ect.

If we could get a clearer picture with real numbers,maybe than we might have some evidence.

I myself have heard about an increasing number of sudden deaths in the under 50s.

No sure if it's just people talking more about others death or what.

Fighting Tao

Worth a read about how despicable conspiracy theorists are on the topic, and it does go into the bullshit in the mocumentary

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-63719246

foxsake

the excess deaths in europe aren't being explained by the media/authorities , they'll get around to it in 5-10 years .

so in the meantime people will fill the void with what they know. something caused this ....post covid - the vaxx is the mostly likely option.

2 years of bad living with lockdown probably didnt , maybe for kids cos they didn't build an immune system but not adults.

So it is most likely the vaxx - young people dying cos of a jab to protect the over 80s.

the youth shafted again

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914418#Comment_119914418

There isn't any evidence that links vaccines to a large amounts of deaths. Otherwise, conspiracy theorists and anti-vaxxers wouldn't be relying on anecdotal hearsay about handfuls of unverifiable cases.

Everyone I know has had the vaccines and I don't know anyone who has dropped death from the vaccine or otherwise.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058273083/died-suddenly

Is the film's title in all Caps or are you just screaming for attention?

silliussoddius

all you need to know about it.

https://mobile.twitter.com/thereal_truther/status/1586431003312107522

moonage

The documentary featured a lot of embalmers who said they encountered things they had never seen pre-2021.

Lots of the dead had long, white fibrous matter which caused blockages in arteries and veins. We see them in vials and see them being extracted from a dead body. If you're not a pureblood it would be a hard thing to watch.

There was an embalmers' convention and one of the speakers showed photographs of the fibrous material and asked how many others has taken these from cadavers and of the 100 embalmers present almost all raised their hands.

In most cases no autopsies were carried out, so it was the embalmers who saw what was actually happening inside bodies and put two and two together—the safe and effective vaxx had caused the material that causes blockages.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119917592#Comment_119917592

And what evidence do they provide that any of that is actually true?

We've already seen that they lie about several cases of sudden death, so it's likely they are similarly lying here also.

Also, "pureblood" is a very strange term to use.

Dohnjoe

It's the usual

bb12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914418#Comment_119914418

all you need to do is go to rip.ie and do a general search for the whole country....it won't be long before you start seeing the "sudden" and "unexpected" deaths each day...it's all there in plain sight....you can even do a comparison search for older years and see the massive increase from 2021 onwards.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914418#Comment_119914418

Came across this. Apparently the sudden deaths of formerly healthy adults is down to emotional distress and placebo effects of people claiming it was dangerous. Laughable.

Fighting Tao

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924149#Comment_119924149

Wait until you realise that not all deaths are on RIP.ie. Your mind will be blown. However, whatever it says on RIP.ie doesn’t take away from the fact that Died Suddenly is bullshit.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119924149#Comment_119924149

"There is no evidence that Covid-19 vaccines are responsible for a rise in “unexplained” or “sudden” deaths. SADS deaths did not increase in England and Wales in 2021."

https://fullfact.org/health/sudden-deaths-connect-the-dots/

"Kyle Sheldrick, a medical doctor and researcher, also debunked the video in a Twitter thread (here). Sheldrick explains how Dowd and the unidentified man who examined the data created their graph using CDC data (here), and points to the spread of the dangerous Delta variant as the more likely reason for spikes in deaths in the second half of 2021."

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-excess-mortality-idUSL2N2VS1BI

As for the "documentary" in question, it's a propaganda video

https://www.techarp.com/facts/died-suddenly-lies-antivax-exposed/

Cheerful S

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058273083/died-suddenly

The fact that so many people took the vaccines and are still alive implies this is nonsense. Of course there will be some people who will have adverse reactions to anything new put into their bodies, but there is no evidence that Covid vaccines are killing large amounts of people.

The claim should be that some people had adverse reactions to covid vaccines ( thats it) Conspiracy does not make any sense in this context.

How effective were vaccines in fighting disease or did your own body do most of the work? Vaccine effectiveness remains an open question. 

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928120#Comment_119928120

Nope. Vaccine effectiveness is well studied and quantified.

Your statement makes it seem like you don't actually understand how vaccines work.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928120#Comment_119928120

How effective were vaccines in fighting disease or did your own body do most of the work?

humm... someone doesnt understand how pandemics are caused or how vaccines work

Unexplained deaths in Ireland are subject to autopsy. Same in UK and very many other places. A cause is nearly always determined. One scenario where cause is not always evident is when certain cardiac arrhythmias occur, as in Takotsubo Cardiomyopathy, but even now autopsy techniques are being developed to detect this.

The Nal

Pathetic stuff really

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/mothers-fury-at-gemma-odohertys-anti-vaxx-rag-over-use-of-tragic-sons-photo-42193612.html

This trawling through RIP.ie is a big thing now amongst "researchers".

What sad losers.

One of the young men whose image is used died in a drowning accident. Another is of a young woman who died from head injuries during a camogie game in a freak accident. Others whose photos are used died from a range of medical conditions, such as Sudden Adult Death Syndrome (SADS) as well as meningitis. Others, including Diego, tragically took their own lives.

walterking

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119914418#Comment_119914418

My uncle died aged 47.

Health freak - ran marathons - looked after himself - did annual checkups.

One day he never woke up.

This was mid 80's.

They reckon he had a stroke in his sleep. No underlying health issues or even a history of issues in his family.

A friend of mine died in 2020. Mid 40's. Was on a zoom call with work. 2 hours after his wife rang saying he died. He had a brain hemorrhage.

It happens quite a lot. Its why that as you get older your life expectancy increases as your 40's is quite a stressful time and has risks that you don't have as you move to 50's.

silliussoddius

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955902#Comment_119955902

Pathetic yet unsurprising.

CJhaughey

I have an open mind with regard to new information coming to light, as such I had both jabs, But in todays hyperpolarised media any discussion falls into one of two camps either Anti or Pro. Pretty much like many topics health related.

I have seen a recent paper that has studied VAERS effects on 25 people that did indeed die quite soon <20 days after getting the MRNA vaccine and the cause is quite clear chiefly Myocarditis.

The paper is pretty technical as is only fitting with regard to this kind of information but feel free to have a look yourself and most importantly keep an open mind.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-022-02129-5#Sec3

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956544#Comment_119956544

I don't see some "anti" vs "pro" divide in the news media. Are you sure you aren't referring to social media?

VAERS is a passive reporting system. Anyone who gets adverse effects within a few weeks of a vaccine can file a report. As such, it's more for the experts to disseminate.

It's the equivalent of having a public reporting system of anyone who experiences any adverse effects within 30 days of eating e.g. mackerel. You are going to get a very large number of false positives. The anti-mackerel crowd will point to it and exclaim "look how dangerous mackerel are!". All the while the real experts are the only ones who can interpret the data.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/dataguide.html

For the report you linked, note the following line: "The reported incidence of (epi-)myocarditis after vaccination is low and the risks of hospitalization and death associated with COVID-19 are stated to be greater than the recorded risk associated with COVID-19 vaccination [29]."

There's a significantly higher risk for myocarditis from Covid than from the vaccine

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/04/01/myocarditis-risk-higher-after-covid-infection-than-vaccination-cdc-finds.html

In my experience, "keeping an open mind" is a phrase often used by those who want to get others to believe questionable stuff.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956544#Comment_119956544

Where does the paper state that was clearly the chief cause for the 25 cases?

25 cases were studied.

Some important points from the paper:

"Standardized autopsies were performed on 25 persons who had died unexpectedly and within 20 days after anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination. In four patients who received a mRNA vaccination, we identified acute (epi-)myocarditis without detection of another significant disease or health constellation that may have caused an unexpected death."

Further it notes that the injection itself can have side effects:

"it is at least tempting to speculate that inadvertent intravascular vaccine injection may be contributive."

The Nal

The anti vaxx loons still at this craic at the end of 2022, 14 billion jabs later.

jh79

The always reliable Science Based Medicine has two articles on this work of fiction.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/died-suddenly-a-tsunami-of-antivax-misinformation-and-conspiracy-theories/

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/a-clot-too-far-an-embalmer-dissects-antivax-misinformation-about-blood-clots-in-died-suddenly/

astrofool

You can see why embalmers and morticians are latched on to. They don't have any medical training themselves thus can't be questioned scientifically, yet can make lots of anecdotal comments that the loons can perpetuate as pseudo fact.

"sewerage worker can't believe what they find under hospital treating COVID"

"binman finds trump ballots tossed into dumpster"

Terrlock

There are still a large number of excess deaths occuring and there doesn't seem to be an investigation into it other then pieces debunking that the cause is from vaccines.

What is killing so many people?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968486#Comment_119968486

The baseline for excess deaths was established based on figures over the last 7 years, skipping 2020 because of covid. So 2015-2019 plus 2021.

I don't think the number of excess deaths in real terms is as large as the figures suggest, because the 'expectations' have been totally messed up by covid. People died who should be alive, and people lived who probably otherwise wouldn't because they put themselves in a bubble for 2 years and now there is a delayed 'harvesting' (actuarial term) effect going on.

There are more people alive versus the baseline and more older people.

So first we need a proper understanding of how many excess deaths are actually excess, before we look for other explanations.

There is covid still around. Long covid. Infectious diseases suppressed during covid coming back.

The impact both of cancelled medical screenings, and people not presenting themselves. Backlogs \ waiting lists have built up.

I think as well, where one partner died from covid, this may have an impact on how well the survivor fares from a life expectancy perspective.

The pandemic was a stressor event. Some people lost businesses. Some people developed new hobbies. Some people developed unhealthy habits. That could be rippling through to some health conditions and deaths.

Then this year there were heatwaves in Europe.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119968486#Comment_119968486

Good explainer below.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/sep/13/whats-behind-the-mystery-of-thousands-of-excess-deaths-this-summer

Answer: a culmination of things.

For Europe, the aggregate rise in deaths in e.g. July seem mainly due to the heatwaves

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/ddn-20220916-1

bb1234567

Several of the examples of alleged vaccine victims didn't even die. They are still alive. Tells you all you need to know about the valid research behind the making of that car wreck of a production.

Having said that, excess deaths are at an higher rate than they should be in many european countries. But it does not correlate with vaccination rates, otherwise the deaths would be much higher in countries with the highest vaccination rates. It is likely that reduced quality of treatment throughout the pandemic is having an impact, and that really needs to be transparently discussed tbh. But the vaccine being deadly shite needs to stop.

71% of the world's popultion has gotten a vaccine so if it was as deadly as anti vaxxers make out then the deaths would be far more noticeable, both statistically and anecdotally. Even if 0.1% of people vaccinated were killed by it would result in over 5 million deaths globally. Are we seriously trying to pretend 5 million have suddenly dropped dead, and it's only anti vaxxers that have managed to notice? Anyway, I presume the anti vaxxers are at least trying to convince us over the vaccine death rate is many times higher than that. Making it even more incredulous. So tens of milions have been killed by the vaccine, without any major impact on published death rates globally. It simply doesn't stack up, but of course the non-deluded know that perfectly well already.

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969431#Comment_119969431

They just want you to doubt vaccines and be afraid of them, like they are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119969431#Comment_119969431

Remember in the other thread the anti-vaxxers have claimed that the 6 million+ deaths from covid were statistically insignificant. So they are indeed trying to argue that the deaths due to the vaccine are in fact much higher. Several of them have stated that the number might be in the tens of millions.

How this is going unnoticed is not elaborated on.

They don't want to say that all experts have just missed it while they have discovered it using the internet and zero training. Because that sounds completely ridiculous.

I suspect the belief is that there is a global conspiracy to cover up these deaths. However anti vaxxers don't want to admit this as it's an extreme thing to believe and prevents them from playing as the reasonable concerned person who's Just Asking Questions.

Most seem to have ditched the ideas of people dropping dead from the vaccine and have shifted to vaguer harder to disprove effects like claiming "it effects fertility". These claims have a longer shelf life so they can always kick the can down the road when they are asked about how their claims haven't come true yet. They will always claim "the effects will take years to be seen."

And of course with trends already resulting in declining birth rates that have existed long before the covid vaccines, they will have plenty to latch onto.

alias no.9

Wasn't a fan of the various levels of lockdown after May2020 and not sure how much net benefit they delivered. The vaccine passports were also abhorrent.

All that said, given the widespread administration of the vaccines across so much of the worlds population, the safety of the vaccine is not in doubt. The bun dance of caution principle might perhaps have required more data before widespread administration but the real world data would be showing any safety issues long before now.

One final point, I understand the film in question is not Irish, but in many parts of Ireland, 'Died Suddenly' is a euphemism for something else and knowing some people who have indeed died suddenly over the last couple of years, perhaps people could stop searching this term on rip.ie to cite it as evidence to back up this nonsense.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119983697#Comment_119983697

So a so-called causal link between vaccinations and excess deaths isn't even a correlation. Colour me surprised. Who falls for this nonsense?

charlie_says

https://youtu.be/t36HntCJf6Y

I didn't watch Died Suddenly as I heard it was shite and not serious. I would recommend the above film, it got taken down from Youtube but the lawyer of the film maker made sure that all the material was sourced correctly using the official data and it was widely shared on Twitter where pressure was put on YT to put it back up, which they did and said they made an error - sorry about that!

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144328#Comment_120144328

Hmm. It's a video that professes to offer only one viewpoint - had an adverse reaction and feels the victim of it (and purely anecdotal). That straight away throws objectivity and science out the window.

Okay I guess it does what it says on the tin, but still the comment section betrays the target audience and the references for this video does read a lot typical anti-vaccine tropes and talking points.

https://www.anecdotalsmovie.com/references/

I skipped to the end where they're pushing that vaccines are entirely a profit making exercise. Yawn.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120144328#Comment_120144328

Did you actually check that they were sourced correctly?

Kinda seems like exactly the same as the other movie, just with more of a veneer of credibility and without the extreme conspiracy claims.

Big Bag of Chips

23 off topic posts deleted. Keep vaccine discussion to the vaccine thread.

greenspurs

https://www.newstalk.com/news/very-very-serious-calls-for-full-investigation-as-irish-death-rates-spikes-1432500

'An analysis of RIP.ie death notices published in the Irish Examiner this morning shows there were 9,718 death notices published in the eight weeks up until January 25th.

That is up 20% on the same time last year, when 8,075 were published, and a 19.5% increase on the same period to January 25th, 2021.

The figure in 2019, before the pandemic began, was nearly 3,000 lower than this year.'

'Last week, the British House of Commons heard calls for an investigation into increasing death rate rates in the UK.

Some 17,381 deaths were registered in England and Wales in the seven days to January 13 — some 2,837 above the UK average'

is it those damn eggs?? 🙄

BBC -

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-64209221

The BBC recently reported that more than 650,000 deaths were registered in the UK in 2022 — 9% more than 2019.

That’s around 50,000 excess deaths, most of which have been concentrated in the second half of the year (since July, there have been an average of 1,300 additional deaths per week). Excluding the pandemic, this represents the highest excess deaths level in 70 years — and only a fraction of these deaths are attributable to Covid. Figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) show that excess deaths were almost 3,000 higher than normal in the second week of January alone — more than 20% above the average. Covid-19 accounted for just 5% of the total. The week before, overall deaths were 30% higher than expected.

If we break the numbers down by age groups, the results are even more surprising.

While excess deaths in most age groups, even if above average, tend to be lower than they were in 2020 and 2021, as you would expect, there is one outlier: people between the age of 0 and 24 registered lower-than-average death rates in 2020 and 2021.

Throughout 2022, on the other hand, they have been dying at higher rates than expected. In other words, more young people are dying today in Britain than before, or even during, the pandemic — and we don’t know why.

Too many eggs?

Summer heatwave?

Myocarditis?

Tin Foil poisoning?

Dohnjoe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120178000#Comment_120178000

The BBC article you linked gives reasons:

Healthcare crisis (long waits for A&E and ambulances), issues caused by Covid and long Covid (e.g. heart issues), less people were screened during the pandemic resulting in missed or late diagnoses.

It also highlighted that excess deaths were not caused by the vaccines (which is the unofficial subtext to this thread)

The "eggs" reference: I believe that comes from another poster on another forum who read a study that consuming too much choline supplements could be linked to health issues. They seemed to extrapolate that because eggs have choline in them we couldn't eat eggs anymore (the study found eating eggs was generally fine).

odyssey06

Why did 20% - 30% fewer people in demographic 0-24 die during periods of restrictions?

That number is more than could be expected eg from road travel reduced.

So there's a few things we don't know the why of.

And if we take 2020, 2021 and 2022 as a whole, is there excess of deaths.