Hub Controller options

Banjo Carney

My system is single circuit also doing upstairs downstairs and hot water but it doesn't have a stat to prevent the water in the copper cylinder going above a set temp.

Should it ?

crazydude

all I can say is the plumber I spoke to said it was a measure to save on costs as you don't always be heating the hot water in cylinder while heating is on.

deezell

It would be unlikely to exceed 65° as the boiler flow occurs only when the CH is on, so the hot flow will be unlikely to reach the boiler set temperature, generally about 69 to 70° for efficiency, unless all the radiators are manually turned off.

If you're replacing the Hub with the Tado, it's receiver has both CH and HW relays. You could ask your plumber to see if your CH flow can be split from the HW flow, which would allow an S plan two valve system. If the CH circuit is not tapped entirely before the HW circuit, then it would not be possible without replumbing. That said, it won't stop you fitting the receiver in place of the Hub. This will allow you to locate the wireless stat in the living room, and yes, you can open the three rad TRVs as the stat will govern the room temperature. The HW relay will be there if needed should it be possible to add an extra motorised valve to close off CH while HW is open. In many cases the hot flow is split straight after the boiler, with a direct run to the cylinder, and a separate run for the CH.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972431#Comment_119972431

For the same reasons I gave @crazydude, the cylinder will only exceed a safe temperature if the flow temperature is a lot higher that 60 to 65°. This depends on the temperature that the boiler is set to, and how close to this the flow gets, given that its being cooled by all the radiators. In a normal system with independent flows, the HW stat on the cylinder would interrupt the boiler and close its own zone valve when HW temperature is reached. When CH comes on, it will actually initially cool an unvalved cylinder until the flow temperature rises close to the existing HW temperature. If the boiler is set to say 68°, it is highly unlikely to reach this unless very few rads are open, and you don't have a system where the boiler is firing for hw only, plus the heat transfer to the HW will be very slight as the HW heats to only a few degrees cooler than the flow, as the heat transfer is proportional to the difference.

crazydude

I figure for about €700 ish investment I can make my system "smart" and save a lot more and have a more comfortable warm envoirment when and where I need it. This will be my project in new year 🙂

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972725#Comment_119972725

Go for it. This Tado kit for the first part only €119, and a diy install. A few hundred for TRVs next.

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/tado-v3-black-edition-wireless-heating-hot-water-smart-thermostat-starter-kit/701kg

Banjo Carney

@deezell thanks you're a mine of information

crazydude

I looked at that but as I am not doing hot water is that not what I get? or does it matter?

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119972826#Comment_119972826

Doesn't matter, you just don't use the HW terminals

crazydude

I think I found a solution on how to control the immersion cylinder

If I install a Wiser Electric Heat Switch (https://wiser.draytoncontrols.co.uk/electrical-heat-switch-and-remote-floor-temperature-sensor) to the immersion I can then make the immersion a zone and set it to come on via app etc.

Means my system will be a wiser system

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119973809#Comment_119973809

Just the heat switch. The immersion element has its own built in thermostat switch to limit the water temperature. You can time the immersion element with this from the wiser app.

crazydude

Perfect

I'll get ordering today

Again thanks for all your help!!

extrafluff

Hi all,

There's one of these in my house, previous owners had gotten this installed. The battery is low on this & keeps knocking off and turning my heating off. I had an issue with my heating last week and had to get the plumber to bypass the standard time clock.

My question is can this be removed easily or do I need to get an electrician to come out to remove it?

Thanks

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120017267#Comment_120017267

These things have a built in rechargeable battery if there was no full mains at the point they're located (if it replaced an old mechanical wall stat which switched a two wire live in and out but didn't have a neutral wire in the wall box). It was kept charged by a parasitic low current draw from the live it was switching, but this possibly depends on the circuit being open and the boiler off for a decent percentage of the time, otherwise the battery can't stay charged. Rechargeable Battery is probably ageing too, it would be soldered in circuit and not worth paying for a replacement.

Once you figure how to unclip the unit off its base, you can replace it with a proper wired smart stat such as a Tado, which uses AAA batteries that last over a year. If you're not comfortable with DIY on a pair of wires connections similar to a single wall light switch, get someone in to do it. If you get the unit unclipped, check to see if its only two wire connection.

Aquos76

@deezell

Can I pick your brains please, twice over Christmas I had an issue whereby I boosted my heating for an hour each time and I noticed that when the hour lapsed the heating never switched off and when I went to the unit at the boiler the triangle light was lit up, along with the normal lights, power light, wifi light and heating light when on. When I checked the tado app, its back in schedule mode and as far as the app is concerned, the heating is off.

I've googled the triangle light and it just says device errors, but Ive no idea what the error could be. Have you come across this issue before?

deezell

It looks like the ext kit is losing connection to the Bridge. As a consequence the device remained at the last setting until it reconnected. If you can replicate this fault, in the app go to Settings/Rooms & Devices and see if the ext kit is showing a symbol to indicate it's offline. Over the years a few people have reported some devices dropping out.

Some users have used WiFi repeaters with an ethernet socket as a means of locating the bridge away from the router to an optimal position for connecting to stats, TRVs and the Ext kit. Running the bridge from a WiFi connected device might slow down the response of the app to changes in temperature readings and control of stat relays and TRV valves, as a lot of these little extenders are half duplex devices, with more latency in sent and response data. If it's a connection problem, as against a firmware or hardware issue in the ext kit, you could try this with the bridge, or as a simpler solution, use a longer ethernet cable to allow a higher or closer placement of the bridge.

In an odd coincidence, I've had a full loss of Broadband since Friday, a break in my cable to the fibre cabinet 700m away, no hope of a repair before Tuesday. My heating continued to work, but stuck on its last thermostat scheduled setting as Tado app went offline.

Without automatic return to schedule, the boiler was flat out as each manual boost went untimed. I dug out an old plugin WiFi repeater which has an ethernet socket, paired it to a hotspot off my mobile data, and plugged the bridge in. It restored the app and schedule, but one TRV struggled to reconnect until I physically disconnected it and moved it nearer the bridge.

My bridge bodge pictured below.

Aquos76

I was actually thinking this might be the problem ok. I do have a deco mesh hub system in the house and have a mesh which is closer to my utility room than where the bridge is currently at the main mesh unit. I might connect up a switch to the hub and see will that solve the issue. Thanks for that.

Banjo Carney

I got great advice here before Christmas and I installed a Tado.

My son also has a hub controller which he wants to replace. As he's only renting all he wants is a smart thermostat he can control with an app.

Does anyone know of one or where he could get it. Thanks in advance.

wheres me jumpa

Thanks everyone for the tado recommendation and advice.

Bought in screwfix today and installed in a few minutes. The wiring from hub c is perfect for it.

For anyone wondering the front of the hub just pulls off.

One question for the knowledgeable folks here. Can I wire my immersion to the tado? I don't have separate zones for heating and water.

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120126395#Comment_120126395

No. You will need a seperate mains operated relay controlled by the Tado HW relay in order to switch the high immersion element current, typically 13-14A, which would exceed the capacity of the Tado relay and burn out the contacts fairly quickly.

A typical Din rail mounted 20A relay like this below in a suitable small din rail enclosure could be controlled by the Tado HW relay contacts of the Tado wireless starter kit receiver. https://www.meteorelectrical.com/brands/garo/garo-20a-2p-no-modular-contactor.html

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120125872#Comment_120125872

Does he not want to fit a Tado? There's not much out there that's Smart and costs less than the current Screwfix wireless Tado Starter kit in Black. HIVE mini for €75 is hard to beat. https://www.screwfix.ie/p/hive-mini-wireless-heating-smart-thermostat-hubless/681pv

There are app accessible wifi capable wall thermostats which will wire up in place of the Hub controller, check amazon for something like this cheap Chinese wired in https://www.amazon.co.uk/Decdeal-Thermostat-Thermostats-Programmable-Temperature/dp/B07S67TV7D/ref=asc_df_B07S67TV7D/

wheres me jumpa

Thanks for the info.

That would be beyond my range of comfort.

Not sure it's worth the hassle either. Only needed in summer and not sure I need detailed control.

Banjo Carney

@deezell thanks once again for your response and info. He wants to spend as little as possible as he's renting and may not be there long more.

I'll show him your suggestions thanks again

Squatman

does anyone know what happens it after today. I havent a notion of paying a subscription. can i manually set times like an old clock timer? id say i will follow deezels advice and install a Tado, interested to see what happens first though

Squatman

@deezell whats the difference between teh 2 tado 1 is 97 the other is 82 both before vat

deezell

I presume these are from the Screwfix site.

First is the wireless starter kit, which has a receiver, AKA as the extension kit, and a wall thermostat, both of which connect by a low power wireless signal to the Bridge, the interface device between all Tado hardware and your Internet. The bridge plugs directly by cable into your Internet router.

The second stat is an add on wired stat, which requires an existing Tado bridge to connect to the Internet, and has a mains voltage relay to directly switch the mains to call the boiler or zone valve.

The wired thermostat is also available in a starter kit, with the bridge, but in Screwfix, only in the normally priced white version at €149 ex Vat.

If you wish to control a HW zone, the extension kit of the wireless starter kit has an additional mains relay to control the HW zone, as well as a wired relay for the CH zone. The actual wall stat of the wireless kit may not have a built in wired relay to directly replace and connect to an existing wired stat location, should you want a wired stat Originally, the same stat was supplied in both kits, with the stat relay configured OFF when connecting via the receiver, to save battery power.

You can also buy the additional sensor stat which has no relay, to use as a sensor for radiator smart TRVs and give more accurate room temperature control.

nava

Hi, I’m looking for some advice too, sorry about it.

Currently as it’s an old house I have only 1 zone, when I switch on the boiler it always heats the water, what I also have by the immersion is a waterlevel, depending on the position open/close when I switch on the the boiler it will also switch heat the radiators.

I’m looking for advice on what my best option will be to prepare for the future, for now that I can install myself but in the future maybe I can upgrade to put on each radiator a thermostat or maybe something to replace that waterlevel, or something else?

hope the above is clear.

regarding the question on what will happen when they start charging, I assume you should still be able to press boost on the device if you disconnect the Hub C from the wifi?

Thanks

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120167618#Comment_120167618

With a motorised valve in place of the manual valve, ( the 'waterlevel'?), you can have a two zone system, Hot Water and Central heating. The boiler will be fired by one of two connections. The live output on the HW zone directly from the controller, or else live from the relay of the motorised valve, which in turn is operated by the CH zone of the controller. You can buy a two zone smart system controller such as Drayton Wiser kit2 , Tado Wireless starter or Hive CH and HW. These are selling for about €110 in screwfix. Each of these controller/ receivers connect to their thermostat wirelessly. They also can have smart radiator thermostat valves (about €70) connected so you can control each room from the app. A motorised valve ( about €80) is easy to fit and connect, if you already have a manual valve. The Hub controller can do none of these things, so throw it in the bin.

nava

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119963155#Comment_119963155

Hi Deezell

Thanks for the advice on your previous post.

Currently I do not have a thermostat, just wonder if you can confirm the connections, in my case I have 3 cables (as on pic below) coming to the Hub Controller, N (Blue), V1 (Black) and L (Brown), from a previous post L and N will connect on the left hand side of the Tado wireless controller, where will I connect the V1? do I also need that purple cable to connect CH/COM with L, Just to remind you my setup is when we switch on the boiler it heats water and radiators, but we have a manual valve, depending on the open/close position when I switch on the the boiler it will also heat the radiators.

Thanks again for the advice and help

deezell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120192846#Comment_120192846

L and N to the L and N on the Tado. A short link wire from L to COM on the the Tado CH relay. V1 to thr Normally Open, NO terminal on the Tado ext kit ch relay. The HW relay will come in handy if you get your system fitted with a motorised valve or two you can have seperate heating of CH and HW. I posted an image of the Ext kit wiring a few months back. I'll post it again when I find it. Does that valve give you HW only, or CH only, its not clear the way you describe it.