Dairy Calves 2024

tanko

Slaughter of calves under eight weeks of age to banned next year under Bord Bia rules.

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364188#Comment_120364188

Not exactly..

If you send calves for slaughter, you wont get your Bord Bia accreditation...no milk collected.

However if you give them to Johnny beef man down the road, who is not BB accredited, then Johnny might make a few euros o the twist getting them to the slaughter house.

They are routing to the slaughter house via the mart this year...that's also a "way around" the clause.

GrasstoMilk

110€ each for a mixed pen of AA,SPX and HE calves this evening

happy enough, we don’t have big cows and never get big prices for calves but it’s never hard move them which is good enough for me

Good loser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364188#Comment_120364188

That's a stupid policy - virtue signalling. I rear/buy calves.

While alive those calves count for Nitrates.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364241#Comment_120364241

Reading in the journal, they will be looking at the herd of birth of all calves slaughtered under 8 weeks

alps

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364518#Comment_120364518

Apologies..stand corrected if that's the case..

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364518#Comment_120364518

Some diaries in the UK did much the same the farm of birth is responsible for calves until about three months in there case.

As well the farm of birth is responsible if calves are sold and die in large numbers on another farm.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364188#Comment_120364188

With the proposal that calves cannot leave farm of birth until weaned it will improve the quality of the calf over time

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364686#Comment_120364686

Page 8 of the current journal.

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120364759#Comment_120364759

One phrase that applies. Corporate Social Responsibility. Theses herds that are slaughtering calves have the potential to do untold damage to the Irish dairy image.

If beef farmers won't rear them, then these extreme crossbred herds will. The calf is the means to milk and is now a cost on the system. Back up a few hundred worthless bull calves on some dairy farms for a few years. This wont be long changing the attitude towards breeding.

If a dairy farmer wants to have an outlet for calves, he/she will have to breed what the market wants. Negative calf values are only around the corner. Beef farmers are willing to rear the right type of calf at the right money.

Reggie.

Problem moving calves around here this year. Not too many takers

K.G.

Its sad state of affairs in the irish beef industry to think that it dosent pay to breed beef breeds .a fr bull /heifer combo delivers approx 250 +euro in calf value and easier to market whereas hereford/angus bull heifer combo is now 150 euro.by combo i mean a bull and heifer in a pair.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366370#Comment_120366370

The Friesian heifer carries the value I. The Friesian bull/ heifer combo. She is probably 450 in value. Most decent HE/ AA bull/heifer combo are above 200 euro( 400 for the pair)

Traditionally during the quota period dairy farmers kept calves to 3+ and often to beyond that to weanling, stores or even finish.

Now we have the situation where 80% of these calves are sold at 14-25 days and the trend would be younger except for a minimum mart age being brought in.

New rearer's have come on board but away less than the number of calves available. Add to that the export market through the UK is gone and the new one via the ferry to France is more variable.

Not only did Teagasc forget about the calves so did dairy farmers. This issue was pointed out 3-5 years ago on this forum.

If everyone dairy farmer breeds only friesians the Fr heifer prices will collapse as well

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120366494#Comment_120366494

And if everyone breeds he/aa they will be /are for nothing.down this way at least the fr bulls are moving but he / aa heifer are a giveaway.

Seriously considering just letting exporter take everything

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120367748#Comment_120367748

What price are you getting for hex or aa if you don’t mind me asking?

Im getting decent quality 4-5 week old hex left in the yard at €220 per head. They’d be 50-60 kgs weight.

K.G.

Early ones sold for that kind a money but main season id say alot of herefords would be bought for 120 130 bulls 50 heifer.month old

Base price

20+ day old HEx out of FR cows are making around €200/+ in the marts around here - of course it depends on the quality of the calf.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120368555#Comment_120368555

Just a comment not being scarastic it look at it form a beef farmers perspective. Dairy farmers are giving anything from 3-600+/ acre for land. That should indicate (I am not saying it is a reality) that dairy farmers on owned land are making a profit of 1k+/ cow stocked at about a cow to the acre. Now I acknowledge ots a fulltime and tough job.

However look at it from a store or beef producer point of view. Most are probably struggling to make 2-300/ acre profit only the most adaptable ate doing better than that. Many are only making 1-200/ acre.

The dairy farmers had decided in the interest of efficiency and labor to push there calves out into the marts at a young an age as possible ( admittedly you are holding to 21+ days). But for the drystock man even buying at those prices the most efficient and adaptive will hardly make 500/ acre.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369557#Comment_120369557

Irrelevant ranting

green daries

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369619#Comment_120369619

Can you please explain why you think that.

Grueller

I take a lot of Bass point now. But my view on this is that if the drystock farmer thinks that dairy farmer is coining it, well there are no quotas any more and tirlan are wide open for new entrants.

I know they can't pay too much for calves but I have been getting €200 to €350 in general for limo and blue calves at 12 to 24 days range.I am more than happy with that but by the time tags, bvd, mart fees, ai bills, milk are all paid for there is no fortune left from them. The bottom line is that beef is low margin, that's why I exited its production. Dairy is no millionaire maker either but there is a margin.

I suppose my point is that there are 2 sides to this coin. The beef farmer can't expect the dairy farmer to subsidise his operation with almost free, good quality calves, but equally the dairy farmer can't expect the beef farmer to pay top dollar for poor calves and hamstring his own hope of a profit on day one. An arrangement between dairy and beef is highly desirable for both parties. I will be moving to all limo next year as my blue bull is 10 and I won't be replacing him as he was straggler from my suckler days. I have a local farmer that bought some limo heifer calves from me last year and this and has pre booked all of my limo heifers from next year already. Working together is key.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369644#Comment_120369644

Typical Irish mentality. You have loads of money so you should give it to me. You have enough already, bla, bla, bla

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369840#Comment_120369840

I just take the view they simply aren't profitable and I won't buy them, I'd think about an arrangement if the calf quality was good (as presumably yours will be).....I don't have any judgement or expectations of the dairy man, its up to him/her/they to do what they have to just as its up to me not to purchase a product I can't make anything on.....I'd be reluctant to get into an binding arrangement where the quality dropped year on year too...I've had that experience on a small scale too

Basically I'd need a lot of convincing to ever buy a dairy calf again, it would have to represent something I'd have a shot at making a margin on....in my mind that's what it all comes down to, calf quality, if they are a worthwhile product for beef and that can be demonstrated without doubt I'll buy that.... regardless of what it looks like etc etc

It's prohibitively expensive to take some of the dairy breed calves at 2/3 weeks and watch them eat all round them for the next 18/24+ months and then be lucky to break even on a good chunk of them when all is said and done (and that's without costing labour/time in some cases)

Milk powder, crunch, bedding, mortality, veterinary, silage etc etc....and like I said that's before you consider the slave labour for 12 weeks if you have any sort of numbers

Maybe the equation changes if you are at scale but like you said why not approach tiran if you like the slave labour and have a shot at getting paid something for your time?

K.G.

No notion of getting involved in a pointless dairy v beef argument.we re as far down south as can get and the market for calves is what is.but for years i have sold calves at mart s and sometimes the eventual owner up the countryhas made contact and always the dealer has made 70 to 100 euro out of the trade.wouldnt even have fed the calf once only moved them and pocketed the 100.cant figure out why fellas dont travel south for a.bunch of calves

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370497#Comment_120370497

money makes the wotld go round ,the dealers would not be standing in the mart week-in week-out without getting theit twist,thats their job.Remember they are also in the mart the dear days bulling any new buyer and if the buyer up the country landed into your yard ,would you still sell for 70-100 of course not and if they went to your mart again they could not buy for 70 -100 so why would fellas travel south unless for a day out

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120370497#Comment_120370497

I'm only in the door @K.G. after another pilgrimage to the south for another trailer of calves. I'm in the midlands and have been buying for the past 5 years off a farmer in the depths of west cork. There's the west cork price and there is the up the country. I take a lot of beef calves off him and it has to work both ways. I want a healthy calf that will leave margin for me on the hook. He is interested in the finished product and this is appreciated as it has improved genetics of the calves especially in the past 2 years as hard data is there on his calves. Sharing a spreadsheet the grade and carcase weight and age of slaughter along with sire has been very beneficial to both parties. The figures don't lie. Better choice of beef ai and and improvement in AA stock bulls has been the major steps. There will always be a small percentage of duds in the calves. Its dropping this number into single digit %

Benefits to me are calves I want, at cork money minus the comission, all calves from a single herd and a cup of tea. Benefits to the dairy farmer, is repeat custom, no bollixing, EFT payment in the yard and only 30 mins out of his day. Flexibility on pick up works both ways. If he's getting tight on space at peak, or working around evening or weekend pick up.

The repeat custom is what dairy farmers must look at. If you have it how do you keep it, if you don't how can you get it.

Finally over the cuppa, a large number of crossbred herds down there have a serious number of calves backed up on farm. Change is happening quickly as we speak,

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371823#Comment_120371823

The ideal situation, all about a bit of fair play on both sides. Id like to think we have a similar arrangement with the man buying our calves. Only thing being I drop them down to him but it is only 5 mins away and small numbers. He pays me on the spot and doesn't ask about price he knows there healthy calves that will thrive and come into decent cattle

mr.stonewall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371893#Comment_120371893

Both sides have to want to make improvements to the arrangement is key. Could easily start by asking him how did they hang up. Forget about price but look for the weight and grade. Follow up by how can we improve it. It could be key to unlocking something good

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369619#Comment_120369619

We had same attitude 5-8 years ago when contract rearing of heifers started. There was a cohort of dairy farmers wanted the beef farmer rearing them to do it for nothing. We had the suggesting figures of 80-90c/day(300-330) per year. And everything had to be to there agenda no other cattle on the farm but there's. You could keep a few more bit you had to buy the calves off them.

I ask you a straight question what level of profit/ acre ( not margin) should dry farmer expect.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369840#Comment_120369840

I do not have a grudge with dairy farmers. I would not actually milk cows. I would not be willing to give the commitment seven days week form January to November. Mine you neither would I be a dealer ar5eing around marts 3-4 days a week. I would not accept the profit level of suckers either like yourself.

Dairy farmers that have low borrowings are doing ok. Some dairy farmers have expanded too fast and have not being aware of environment limits coming down the line. As well many did not do an cost benefit analysis in there operations.

Some previously had beef operations and have an idea of the margin but cannot accept the drystock farmers looking to increase his margin. That is where the clash comes. No dairy farmer is making money on calves being sold at 3-4 weeks at 100 euro or less.

Injuryprone

I've 10 Angus going today to a dealer. 5 bulls 5 heifers, nothing special decent middle of the road stock. 4 weeks old on avg. Going to someone in central co mayo. Bulls are 180, heifers 125. Would love to know what price they are at the other end! To be fair, there's a fair bit of diesel to be burned going cork to mayo

mr.stonewall

Say a jeep and trailer that could take 25 calves and a full of diesel the tank at approx €125 euro. Diesel cost is approx €5/calf. Wages for the day another €7/calf and then wear, tear and insurance on the jeep would be similar to the diesel cost. Cost to get them up would be approx €20/calf based on a full load.

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371973#Comment_120371973

I'm a dairy farmer. I don't rent land and I have no interest in renting it. Also I have no interest in what others are paying. I rear my own heifers and have no interest in what other guys are paying to rear theirs.

I'm not that bothered about how much "profit" per acre I make myself not to mind caring what someone else makes. I'm farming for farmings sake, not for money.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372100#Comment_120372100

Have you dealt with him before. Often wonder why these lads travel so far.

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120371823#Comment_120371823

I sell alot at home too at most 20 % of herefords go to mart.fr bills go export.but last year i found there was alot of messing going on.buying them and not taking them and slow paying.i can honestly say no fella has left this yard over price but some fellas i dont want to deal with.as for dealers personally i cant see what benifit they are to the system

cute geoge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372250#Comment_120372250

You can not see the benefit of dealers but marts can not function without them.Last week when the boats stoped ,after the few beef farmers had bought their few sucks it was left to the dealers to divide out the remainder of the calves.Like the dairy farmers that got 5 and 10 euro for fr bulls were dissapointed ,It was still better then the alternative of having to bring them home to over crowded sheds

K.G.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372290#Comment_120372290

In my view once a dealer handles an animal there is no chance of any one else making a decent return out of that animal.

148multi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372100#Comment_120372100

Probably 300, was talking to a dairy farmer in mayo a while back ,half to fr, half to aa, he said that he will not make the same mistake again, all to aa, they were snapping them up at 350 a head, this was before the glut.

148multi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120369619#Comment_120369619

Well my perspective is this, I had a hoofpairer in, told him to go easy on one cow and that her weanling made €1,150. He laughed at this telling me of a previous dairy client who told him to go easy on a cow that she milked over €7,000.

Now I'm not saying everything else is on a level playing field.

Injuryprone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120373160#Comment_120373160

There's a fair difference between what you get for a January calf and a second half of February calf. Also from looking online, calves from counties along the west coast are a different shape calf altogether. Turned on abbeyfeale there during the lunch and twould depress you!

Injuryprone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120372150#Comment_120372150

He takes all my calves with years. I've movement certs done for most counties in the midlands and northwest at this stage.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120373253#Comment_120373253

Hmmm at 60c average she did 11500 litres last year, it's possible but I'd take some of that with a pinch of salt too.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120373646#Comment_120373646

2550 gallons in old money. Cows would that level of production would have low solids so hardly 60c/ L average. Still if she did 6.5-7k euro shows the difference.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120373771#Comment_120373771

Ye as I say you'd want to be taking some of these statements with a pinch of salt,a small percentage of cows may have done those figures but the average cow didn't gross 7k last year, 3.5 - 4k yes and it was the best year in my lifetime in dairying and some lads could be set up nice and comfy for life from it, seems though a lot in that situation are doubling down and looking for more.

whelan2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120373253#Comment_120373253

What did the 7k euro of milk cost and over how long ?

148multi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374147#Comment_120374147

Not trying to compare, but the majority of weanlings are not making €1150, just as the majority of dairy cow aren't clearing €7,000.

Don't think I begrudge any dairy farmers that's able to do it.

patsy_mccabe

Out of interest, how much meal would the typical dairy beef calf consume before it hits the grass as a yearling in the second year?

straight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120373253#Comment_120373253

Totally irrelevant again. I had a man here one day and he was after selling a foal for 20k. So what like.

1848

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374517#Comment_120374517

Say 400 kg - €200 on an animal being sold as a yearling, bit less if retained on farm.

Pinsnbushings

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120374468#Comment_120374468

Ah I know not saying you are begrudging, but there is massive resentment from other farming sectors towards the dairy farmer..I get it everyday at my off farm job from other part time farmers there and it's tiresome..I can't say a word about the cost of anything be it fertilizer, diesel, food, tractors, even a bloody pint without the fact I have a few dairy cows at home been thrown in my face.

These guys genuinely have no idea of actually costs or profit in milk, but are driven mad by seeing big well established dairy farms around here pushing on. Therefore anyone milking is next best thing to a millionaire. I've said it here before, I know 3 people now in my close circle of friends and family earning over 100k salaries in there job, but nobody says a word to them.

Anyway sorry for the ranting and raving, as straight has said its all irrelevant.

Grueller

I am like yourself pinsnbushings, a part time dairy farmer and part time off farm employment. If I drive on any bit I hear from the farming circle that, sure hasn't he a good off farm job and then the colleagues in the day Job hit me with, sure its easy for him and he with his wages and a herd of cows. Sicken your hole after a while. The ones in the day job that are always at it were all planning their weekends away last week in work while I was facing a weekend of cleaning calf pens out, fencing and milking. Then they tell me it's easy for me🙄

straight

Some people think that in order to elevate themselves they need to drag down the person above them.