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Dairy Calves 2024

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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    And if everyone breeds he/aa they will be /are for nothing.down this way at least the fr bulls are moving but he / aa heifer are a giveaway.

    Seriously considering just letting exporter take everything



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭DBK1


    What price are you getting for hex or aa if you don’t mind me asking?

    Im getting decent quality 4-5 week old hex left in the yard at €220 per head. They’d be 50-60 kgs weight.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Early ones sold for that kind a money but main season id say alot of herefords would be bought for 120 130 bulls 50 heifer.month old



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,063 ✭✭✭✭Base price


    20+ day old HEx out of FR cows are making around €200/+ in the marts around here - of course it depends on the quality of the calf.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Just a comment not being scarastic it look at it form a beef farmers perspective. Dairy farmers are giving anything from 3-600+/ acre for land. That should indicate (I am not saying it is a reality) that dairy farmers on owned land are making a profit of 1k+/ cow stocked at about a cow to the acre. Now I acknowledge ots a fulltime and tough job.

    However look at it from a store or beef producer point of view. Most are probably struggling to make 2-300/ acre profit only the most adaptable ate doing better than that. Many are only making 1-200/ acre.

    The dairy farmers had decided in the interest of efficiency and labor to push there calves out into the marts at a young an age as possible ( admittedly you are holding to 21+ days). But for the drystock man even buying at those prices the most efficient and adaptive will hardly make 500/ acre.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight




  • Registered Users Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users Posts: 5,085 ✭✭✭Grueller


    I take a lot of Bass point now. But my view on this is that if the drystock farmer thinks that dairy farmer is coining it, well there are no quotas any more and tirlan are wide open for new entrants.

    I know they can't pay too much for calves but I have been getting €200 to €350 in general for limo and blue calves at 12 to 24 days range.I am more than happy with that but by the time tags, bvd, mart fees, ai bills, milk are all paid for there is no fortune left from them. The bottom line is that beef is low margin, that's why I exited its production. Dairy is no millionaire maker either but there is a margin.

    I suppose my point is that there are 2 sides to this coin. The beef farmer can't expect the dairy farmer to subsidise his operation with almost free, good quality calves, but equally the dairy farmer can't expect the beef farmer to pay top dollar for poor calves and hamstring his own hope of a profit on day one. An arrangement between dairy and beef is highly desirable for both parties. I will be moving to all limo next year as my blue bull is 10 and I won't be replacing him as he was straggler from my suckler days. I have a local farmer that bought some limo heifer calves from me last year and this and has pre booked all of my limo heifers from next year already. Working together is key.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    Typical Irish mentality. You have loads of money so you should give it to me. You have enough already, bla, bla, bla



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭amacca


    I just take the view they simply aren't profitable and I won't buy them, I'd think about an arrangement if the calf quality was good (as presumably yours will be).....I don't have any judgement or expectations of the dairy man, its up to him/her/they to do what they have to just as its up to me not to purchase a product I can't make anything on.....I'd be reluctant to get into an binding arrangement where the quality dropped year on year too...I've had that experience on a small scale too


    Basically I'd need a lot of convincing to ever buy a dairy calf again, it would have to represent something I'd have a shot at making a margin on....in my mind that's what it all comes down to, calf quality, if they are a worthwhile product for beef and that can be demonstrated without doubt I'll buy that.... regardless of what it looks like etc etc


    It's prohibitively expensive to take some of the dairy breed calves at 2/3 weeks and watch them eat all round them for the next 18/24+ months and then be lucky to break even on a good chunk of them when all is said and done (and that's without costing labour/time in some cases)


    Milk powder, crunch, bedding, mortality, veterinary, silage etc etc....and like I said that's before you consider the slave labour for 12 weeks if you have any sort of numbers


    Maybe the equation changes if you are at scale but like you said why not approach tiran if you like the slave labour and have a shot at getting paid something for your time?



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    No notion of getting involved in a pointless dairy v beef argument.we re as far down south as can get and the market for calves is what is.but for years i have sold calves at mart s and sometimes the eventual owner up the countryhas made contact and always the dealer has made 70 to 100 euro out of the trade.wouldnt even have fed the calf once only moved them and pocketed the 100.cant figure out why fellas dont travel south for a.bunch of calves



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    money makes the wotld go round ,the dealers would not be standing in the mart week-in week-out without getting theit twist,thats their job.Remember they are also in the mart the dear days bulling any new buyer and if the buyer up the country landed into your yard ,would you still sell for 70-100 of course not and if they went to your mart again they could not buy for 70 -100 so why would fellas travel south unless for a day out



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    I'm only in the door @K.G. after another pilgrimage to the south for another trailer of calves. I'm in the midlands and have been buying for the past 5 years off a farmer in the depths of west cork. There's the west cork price and there is the up the country. I take a lot of beef calves off him and it has to work both ways. I want a healthy calf that will leave margin for me on the hook. He is interested in the finished product and this is appreciated as it has improved genetics of the calves especially in the past 2 years as hard data is there on his calves. Sharing a spreadsheet the grade and carcase weight and age of slaughter along with sire has been very beneficial to both parties. The figures don't lie. Better choice of beef ai and and improvement in AA stock bulls has been the major steps. There will always be a small percentage of duds in the calves. Its dropping this number into single digit %

    Benefits to me are calves I want, at cork money minus the comission, all calves from a single herd and a cup of tea. Benefits to the dairy farmer, is repeat custom, no bollixing, EFT payment in the yard and only 30 mins out of his day. Flexibility on pick up works both ways. If he's getting tight on space at peak, or working around evening or weekend pick up.

    The repeat custom is what dairy farmers must look at. If you have it how do you keep it, if you don't how can you get it.

    Finally over the cuppa, a large number of crossbred herds down there have a serious number of calves backed up on farm. Change is happening quickly as we speak,



  • Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    The ideal situation, all about a bit of fair play on both sides. Id like to think we have a similar arrangement with the man buying our calves. Only thing being I drop them down to him but it is only 5 mins away and small numbers. He pays me on the spot and doesn't ask about price he knows there healthy calves that will thrive and come into decent cattle



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Both sides have to want to make improvements to the arrangement is key. Could easily start by asking him how did they hang up. Forget about price but look for the weight and grade. Follow up by how can we improve it. It could be key to unlocking something good



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    We had same attitude 5-8 years ago when contract rearing of heifers started. There was a cohort of dairy farmers wanted the beef farmer rearing them to do it for nothing. We had the suggesting figures of 80-90c/day(300-330) per year. And everything had to be to there agenda no other cattle on the farm but there's. You could keep a few more bit you had to buy the calves off them.

    I ask you a straight question what level of profit/ acre ( not margin) should dry farmer expect.

    I do not have a grudge with dairy farmers. I would not actually milk cows. I would not be willing to give the commitment seven days week form January to November. Mine you neither would I be a dealer ar5eing around marts 3-4 days a week. I would not accept the profit level of suckers either like yourself.

    Dairy farmers that have low borrowings are doing ok. Some dairy farmers have expanded too fast and have not being aware of environment limits coming down the line. As well many did not do an cost benefit analysis in there operations.

    Some previously had beef operations and have an idea of the margin but cannot accept the drystock farmers looking to increase his margin. That is where the clash comes. No dairy farmer is making money on calves being sold at 3-4 weeks at 100 euro or less.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    I've 10 Angus going today to a dealer. 5 bulls 5 heifers, nothing special decent middle of the road stock. 4 weeks old on avg. Going to someone in central co mayo. Bulls are 180, heifers 125. Would love to know what price they are at the other end! To be fair, there's a fair bit of diesel to be burned going cork to mayo



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,568 ✭✭✭mr.stonewall


    Say a jeep and trailer that could take 25 calves and a full of diesel the tank at approx €125 euro. Diesel cost is approx €5/calf. Wages for the day another €7/calf and then wear, tear and insurance on the jeep would be similar to the diesel cost. Cost to get them up would be approx €20/calf based on a full load.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,448 ✭✭✭straight


    I'm a dairy farmer. I don't rent land and I have no interest in renting it. Also I have no interest in what others are paying. I rear my own heifers and have no interest in what other guys are paying to rear theirs.

    I'm not that bothered about how much "profit" per acre I make myself not to mind caring what someone else makes. I'm farming for farmings sake, not for money.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,912 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Have you dealt with him before. Often wonder why these lads travel so far.



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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    I sell alot at home too at most 20 % of herefords go to mart.fr bills go export.but last year i found there was alot of messing going on.buying them and not taking them and slow paying.i can honestly say no fella has left this yard over price but some fellas i dont want to deal with.as for dealers personally i cant see what benifit they are to the system



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭cute geoge


    You can not see the benefit of dealers but marts can not function without them.Last week when the boats stoped ,after the few beef farmers had bought their few sucks it was left to the dealers to divide out the remainder of the calves.Like the dairy farmers that got 5 and 10 euro for fr bulls were dissapointed ,It was still better then the alternative of having to bring them home to over crowded sheds



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 2,975 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    In my view once a dealer handles an animal there is no chance of any one else making a decent return out of that animal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭148multi


    Probably 300, was talking to a dairy farmer in mayo a while back ,half to fr, half to aa, he said that he will not make the same mistake again, all to aa, they were snapping them up at 350 a head, this was before the glut.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭148multi


    Well my perspective is this, I had a hoofpairer in, told him to go easy on one cow and that her weanling made €1,150. He laughed at this telling me of a previous dairy client who told him to go easy on a cow that she milked over €7,000.

    Now I'm not saying everything else is on a level playing field.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    There's a fair difference between what you get for a January calf and a second half of February calf. Also from looking online, calves from counties along the west coast are a different shape calf altogether. Turned on abbeyfeale there during the lunch and twould depress you!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,028 ✭✭✭Injuryprone


    He takes all my calves with years. I've movement certs done for most counties in the midlands and northwest at this stage.



  • Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    Hmmm at 60c average she did 11500 litres last year, it's possible but I'd take some of that with a pinch of salt too.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,013 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    2550 gallons in old money. Cows would that level of production would have low solids so hardly 60c/ L average. Still if she did 6.5-7k euro shows the difference.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users Posts: 760 ✭✭✭Pinsnbushings


    Ye as I say you'd want to be taking some of these statements with a pinch of salt,a small percentage of cows may have done those figures but the average cow didn't gross 7k last year, 3.5 - 4k yes and it was the best year in my lifetime in dairying and some lads could be set up nice and comfy for life from it, seems though a lot in that situation are doubling down and looking for more.



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