NI Dec 22 Assembly Election

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633531#Comment_120633531

You might be surprised how much more often the British community in ni would like to visit the mainland if they could afford it.

…and I know many republicans would like are ticket to be one way

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633545#Comment_120633545

If you can afford a hundred quid ferry, you could probably manage a 20 quid flight with a whole heap more options.

Like I said, I think you're overstating it.

It isn't a weird anti-UK point by the way. I'm there multiple times a year either London for business or Edinburgh socially.

FrancieBrady

How does a freeport and cheap ferry get rid of the WF and the Irish Sea Border and restore the Acts of Union?

😁 When you told us Unionists were working on something big how was anyone to guess at something’ so random. Might as well be free crisps for life and tickets to Legoland for everyone in the OWC

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631416#Comment_120631416

1. Go for it. But don't expect much by way of results; freeports are not all they're cracked up to be. UK had freeports before, and abandoned them after concluding that they contributed nothing to productivity or wealth growth.
2. Go for it. But drop the partisan "now that we're out of the EU" nonsense. Subsidies for public transport services are routine in the EU, and not banned.
3. I think the UK government has already announced that it will do this.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633502#Comment_120633502

The figures are a bit off but the overall picture is correct. But it's generally considered not very helpful to compare raw vote figures from a general election and local elections; since local elections attract a much lower turnout, on raw vote figures everbody's vote will be down, and this masks more meaningful shifts in support.

(On this comparison, the party that did worst last week is the TUV, who were down 36k votes. The party that did best was the NI Conservatives, who were up 184. See what I mean?)

(Also, using this analysis — total decline in vote, AE 2022 to LE 2023: Unionist, 63k; Nationalist, 41k; Other, 21k)

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120632875#Comment_120632875

SF is one party that runs two jurisdictions. It is not two parties by the same name in two different jurisdictions like labour is. Whether you like it or not Mary Lou is the head of the most popular party in NI so is obviously going to be representing the SF vote there.

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633545#Comment_120633545

But could everyone avail of these cheap tickets this side of the irish sea? So if i want to drive to Scotland from here in Dublin i just head up to belfast get a cheap ferry across to Scotland .... or would you suggest you need a UK passport and have to show your passport when buying a ticket ? Ie not only have a goods border in the irish sea but also a human border.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633607#Comment_120633607

Well wind up all you like.

I am learning from sf. They could accept the gfa which meant then giving up on almost every principal they had.

I don’t like the protocol because I think it is evident that the changes a new labour government will make will make it defunct - whether that is single market for all Uk or back in eu.

anything that eases and encourages interaction between ni and rest of Uk is a huge positive. It would also push huge amounts of roi trade through our ports and maybe southerners would think we had horns if they were regularly travelling through ni. Etc etc. most people I know would rather holiday in Scotland that Galway but they need to add on about £500 to get to Scotland (granted they quickly save that on living costs while there). It would be nice to have our cake and eat it on this one as well

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633777#Comment_120633777

Oh you be welcomed and indeed encouraged. I’d love to see you spend your punts in in the shops and cafes in Belfast and Larne on the way through.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633943#Comment_120633943

anything that eases and encourages interaction between ni and rest of Uk is a huge positive.

Why would those who identify as British need to be encouraged to interact with the rest of the UK? If I want to interact with those in the UK or France or Italy I just buy a ticket and go. Incentives are nice but I don't sit here crying that Irish Ferries are blocking me from interaction.

Southerners regualrly travel through NI all the time, we would use Belfast International as much as we use Dublin Airports in this house as does everyone I know and it seems to me that Galway and the West Coast attracts huge numbers from OWC already and always did particularly in the months when your wee country is 'celebrating' it's culture.

Nobody is stopping you 'interacting' with the rest of the UK, what you need to ask yourself maybe is why it has become more difficult. Why have you landed where youse are. Whose strategy got you to this point?

Introspection was never a Unionist strongpoint but maybe now is the time to do it and ask, 'why do I need these incentives?' 'who actually did this to us?'.

Peregrinus

Guys, you're overthinking this.

Ferry subsidies are not a big deal. The Scottish government already subsidises Scottish ferry services to a very considerable amount.

The only think that stops the NI government from providing ferry subsidies is the DUP's determination that the NI government shouldn't do anything at all.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634083#Comment_120634083

It's interesting that it is being lined up as some kind of win though.

Peregrinus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634147#Comment_120634147

Something has to be lined up as a win. The only way forward for NI is for the DUP to climb down, and they badly need some kind of political cover that will enable them to hail their own climbdown as a triumph. So if it's freeports or ferry subsidies or whatever — great. Bring it on.

The other thing that needs to be in place for this to work, though, is that the DUP has to recognise the situation it has got itself into, and has to want to get itself out of that situation, so that it will grab whatever political cover is offered. I'm not sure we're there yet.

There are two ways the DUP can read the results of last week's elections:

"We're getting an increasing share of the unionist vote! Great! Our community must like what we're doing, so we must keep doing that, only more so."

"The unionist vote is declining! That's terrible! We have to make unionism more attractive than it evidently is, so we have to change what we're doing to bring that about!"

Remains to be seen which way they'll go on this. I'm not optimistic. But, then, I never am where the DUP is concerned and they do very occasionally surprise me. Let this be one of those times.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634186#Comment_120634186

I think we are, and have been for a while.

https://twitter.com/News_Letter/status/1661053456663166986

It's basically 'Never Never Never...well maybe, if we can have some more' all over again. Then they will get back and carry on obstructing progress as before. Or so they hope, in my opinion a Rubicon has been crossed, both in NI and at Westminster.

FrancieBrady

Surprised me anyway.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634367#Comment_120634367

While it doesn't impact the general point, I would highlight that PBP officially designate as non-aligned/other rather than Nationalist.

I think the person who created that graphic knew what they were doing based on the comparison being labeled Pro-Irish/Unionist rather than Nationalist/Unionist and the convenient point that PBP push the headline number on that side above 50%.

I'm also somewhat surprised that the graphic shows 0% transfers from Greens to SDLP or UUP, I'm quite sceptical of that.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634367#Comment_120634367

Doesn't do much for the narrative / "accusation" that the Alliance are nothing but SF-lite or a party for those who think anything Green is bad.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634594#Comment_120634594

Fair enough. But the figures speak for themselves and that is why I was surprised. I wouldn't have expected the transfers from Alliance to be going to where they are.

* Hadn't even noticed the logo. I don't even follow that account.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634004#Comment_120634004

“Why would those who identify as British need to be encouraged to interact with the rest of the UK?”

says the guy who wants money spent on Irish language initiatives lol

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634722#Comment_120634722

??

I didn't say anything about money in that post downcow...I asked why would you need to be encouraged? And I asked a few other questions about why you are in the position of 'needing to encourage interaction'.

Fionn1952

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634632#Comment_120634632

84.9% of their transfers not going to SF should be a pretty damaging to the, 'accusation' that they're SF-lite one would imagine. They have an identical number of transfers to UUP and over twice as many to SDLP.

I also don't see how that graphic plays into anything to do with Alliance voters attitudes towards Greens; as Greens are designated 'other', APNI to Greens transfers aren't shown and could be anywhere up to the 23.2% unaccounted for in the first graph?

It does however raise questions around the certainty with which many assert that their voters are mostly moderate Unionists and the convenient associated assumption that their default position is remaining part of the UK in the event of a border poll. Some like to push that line of thinking to suit their own agenda after all.

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634147#Comment_120634147

Your language is difficult. It’s not a ‘win’ it’s a benifit to all

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634864#Comment_120634864

If it is a benefit to all and cheaper prices are, why could it not be achieved within Stormont?

The problem here is that you are using it to try and pretend YOU (Unionism) got something for their damaging intransigence

downcow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634753#Comment_120634753

You’re picking on words. I didn’t say we needed anything. And by encourage I mean remove obstacles

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634882#Comment_120634882

I am not picking on words.

You require these things to go back into government, it is the very essence of getting something in return for intransigence.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633952#Comment_120633952

You are behind the times downcow.

Visitors from Ireland have increased significantly in NI according to the NI Tourism board.

https://www.tourismni.com/research-insights/tourism-performance-statistics/

ROI market performance during 2022 was extremely positive, delivering record levels of trips, nights and spend.

ROI residents took over 1.1m overnight trips in NI, eclipsing the one million figure for the first time.

ROI to NI trips, nights and spend during 2022 have seen increases of 51%, 42%, and 65% respectively, compared to 2019.

ROI holiday visitors to NI increased by over half in 2022 vs 2019.

Performance was particularly strong in Q1 2022, where significant growth was evident across all KPIs. We continued to see increases in ROI residents’ trips, nights and spend during Q2 2022, however not to the same extent as was evident for the first quarter of the year. Q3 again showed strong performance, particularly in ROI expenditure in NI (which more than doubled compared to Q3 2019), and ROI to NI performance remained positive in Q4, particularly in trips (growth of over 45%) and spend (growth of over 55%).

ittakestwo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120633952#Comment_120633952

Really so you are on for an all Ireland economy thesedays? Would the DUP be on for this too, I thought after their failed attempt to get a hard border in Ireland they wouldn't like this idea of strong north south trade

Fionn1952

Things that have been great for tourism in NI;

- the Good Friday Agreement and subsequent peace

- Game of Thrones; the exhibition, international exposure for places like The Dark Hedges, Castle Ward etc

- Derry Girls and the improved Derry have helped there

- the Titanic Museum

- more marketing for Giants Causeway and Carick-a-Rede rope bridge

- in my own home county, Marble Arch Caves continues to be wonderful (could be marketed more)

- Cooperation between Tourism NI and Fáilte Ireland to attract more people to the island in general for mutual benefit

Things that haven't helped tourism in NI

- Brexit making people from wider Europe feel less welcome in the UK

- Flag Shaggers making us all look like backwards lunatics

- The DUP's constant efforts to create barriers between North and South, undermining the aforementioned efforts from Tourism NI and Fáilte Ireland.

ittakestwo

Last weeks results give the DUP a big headache. The only unionist party the UUP that was for the WF got destroyed. If the DUP couldn't claim the WF was a win over the NIP I cant imagine there is anything now that can be changed to claim as a win that the ideological voter will buy and there is alot of them in unionism. The ideological voter does not want any kind of border in the irish sea but obviously this is not possible.

If the DUP back down on the WF they will lose votes to the TUV who will remain steadfast against the WF. If the DUP keep stormont down out of protest it is giving SF an easy life and runs the risk of London rule with Dublin input and NI being a failed jurdicition which goes against unionism. Ultimately the DUP are caught between a rock and hard place.

Larry Bee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120635229#Comment_120635229

"If the DUP back down on the WF they will lose votes to the TUV who will remain steadfast against the WF. "

Is there any chance that they could gain votes for getting up of their arses and going back to work?