What Can be Picked up on Long Wave Around Ireland?

dxhound2005

It is coming in to Co Cork at a fair level. And good on radios in Mayo and Donegal. Also very useable reception of Poland and Algeria during the day on those.

http://rx.linkfanel.net/snr.html

For anyone who doesn't know, on a PC keyboard Ctrl and F together allows a search of the list. Type "Ireland" into the Search box, and check out reception on the SDR's.

DannoA1

Does anyone know of a radio that reliably picks up BBC Radio 4 in Ireland? And is on sale retail. Roberts supposedly pick up Radio 4 but from experience do not so. I had a Panasonic which did but it had died of old age.

Mickey Mike

@DannoA1 weather it can be picked up or not, all I can say its been switched off this year, so I'll be looking at another alternative, Sky, BBC Sounds. etc.

dxhound2005

One source is saying that it will be 2025. See report 16 Feb.

https://mediumwave.info/news/

Any radio with Long Wave can pick it up. If someone takes the radio to a rural place with no electrical noise. And uses the directional properties of the inbuilt aerial to peak the signal.

In urban areas the signal could be drowned out by the electrical smog, see video. If anyone has a car with Medium Wave, drive round a town to hear how bad it can be. Radio 4 is also on Medium Wave from transmitters in the North, 720 kHz and 774 kHz. 720 is strong in Dundalk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDF6F3_44G4

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121789071#Comment_121789071

I think it's LW specific programming such as Test Match Special that's being removed from R4 in the near future. The LW frequency itself is not up for immediate closure just yet.

Iceland on 189 kHz and Romania on 153 kHz both had outages earlier today.

153 Romania is off once again, has been for at least a couple of hours now

I wonder what, if anything LW spectrum will be used for when it eventually goes silent.

@[Deleted User]

Romania has come back on now. Shortly before these recent outages started to occur on a regular basis, Radio Romania said they had "no plans" to close 153. I'm thinking they meant - "no plans yet, but we'll randomly turn it off now and again to see who complains".

@[Deleted User] As for other uses, well ALS162 from France will be around for a while yet plus a new time signal recently launched on 225 from Poland, so I guess the default usage will be timing and frequency standards when there are no broadcast stations left. I can't see a bidding war going on for <150 kHz of spectrum with a very high noise floor.

After RUV from Iceland, BBC R4 and Antena Satelor from Romania leave LW we will be left with the following -

171 - Medi 1 (Morocco), 225 - Polskie R1 and 252 - Chaine 3 (Algeria) plus the 3 to 5 LW transmitters in Mongolia which are allegedly falling apart...

Part of the LW band is shared with navigation beacons used by ships/aircraft although I'm not sure how reliant they still are on such technology given the availability of GPS and wotnot.

In North America (where there are no LW broadcast stations) parts of the band are available to amateur radio while other parts are open to "Part 15" (basically open to all comers but with power/bandwidth restrictions) applications. A few decades ago there were proposals to use LW for emergency warning systems but nothing ever came of it.

Australia briefly considered putting ABC stations on Long wave in the early 1930's but the band was deemed too prone to thunderstorm static.

@[Deleted User]

@[Deleted User] that's right, still plenty of NDBs left in the space between the top of the LW broadcast band and below the start of the MW band. Navtex is still used very extensively.

I believe the US emergency warning system was called GWEN (Ground Wave Emergency Network) which I think was proposed in either the Carter or Reagan administration era. I can't recall if it just never got off the ground or there were initial test transmissions before the project was abandoned.

Had forgotten about the LW trials in Australia during the early days of broadcasting.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121862788#Comment_121862788

Thanks for that. I didn't know Australia ever considered the LW.

I would presume that thunderstorm static would be more in the North of Australia, Darvin, etc....

Iceland on 189 kHz has been quiet since at least 9 o'clock this morning

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122585441#Comment_122585441

From what I've heard they shut down due to technical issues.

Whether they'll be fixed or not, I don't know. The planned shutdown would be the end of this year.

tinytobe

Radio Teleswitch Service will end on the 30th of June this year. This will also mean that BBC Radio 4 on LW 198 will be history.

ford fiesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123521870#Comment_123521870

are the BBC going to mark this historic event in any way?

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123521890#Comment_123521890

I would guess they would at least mention it at some point in the news and on their website.

The thing is, the BBC is no longer responsible for the LW signal as far as I know. It's completely in the hands of Radio Teleswich Services and they merely carry BBC Radio 4 besides their RTS signal.

tinytobe

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/publications/radio-teleswitch-service-rts-shutdown-campaign-toolkit

"2025 phased shutdown

The RTS shutdown will take a phased approach starting from 30th June 2025. Consumers who have not had their meter switched may experience disruption to their heating and hot water systems.

Ofgem has created a Toolkit to help stakeholders raise awareness of the RTS shutdown. By using these resources, you can help ensure that those with RTS meters understand the importance of upgrading their meter before the June 2025 deadline."

The shutdown has been postponed several times but I'd say this time the shotdown is for real.

Antenna

Not strictly LW, but yesterday (Friday) afternoon on radio with extended LW tuning, I happened to try Waterford Airport NDB on 368 kHz, the closest NDB (it was already on a LW preset). No sign of it. This was outdoors at a coastal location where it would have been readably receivable…

I assumed it must have been decommissioned (as others have been), but I had assumed wrong as 368kHz was back on when I tried the frequency again later that day (whilst at home where its a weaker signal)!

These aero non-directional beacons transmit a repeating morse code ident using conventional AM (in this case the letters WTD )

https://ourairports.com/navaids/WTD/Waterford_NDB_IE/

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123628230#Comment_123628230

I think Dublin has a similar transmitter at a similar frequency, - or at least used to have around 2010 or 2011 or so? Don't know about London UK, but I recall a transmitter somewhere West of Heathrow, near the pinewood movie studios. Don't know if it's still operational?

dxhound2005

BBC Radio 4 closing on 198 Longwave on 26 September 2026, which is a Saturday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXQ7qXQxHgU

Infoanon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123714526#Comment_123714526

Nothing official yet although the date (26/09/26) has been mentioned over the last few days. July 31st was supposed to be the date until it came and went !

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123714526#Comment_123714526

It has been mentioned a couple of weeks ago on the website Mediumwave news. The question is if it's true or not.

As far as I know it's not even paid / funded for by the BBC but by the electricity company or Radio Teleswich Services for their old meters. They just broadcast Radio 4 as an sort of act of kindness. Otherwise it'll be just a signal, nothing else.

dxhound2005

The BBC have been on Long Wave for 100 years. They were obviously there in 1979 when the allowed Teleswitch to piggyback on their signal. A commercial arrangement, rather than act of kindness.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123733385#Comment_123733385

Well, it's the most practial thing to do.

LW can be received the easiest and BBC Radio 4 was on the same frequency across the UK. So it was only practical to pick the one and only frequency which can be received the easiest anywhere.

No point in having electricity meters having them to tune to different frequencies and then having the issue of not picking up the signal. Easier to mass produce meters fixed tuned to 198 kHz as well.

Also it was 1979 then, pre internet, pre-smartphone, etc…

dxhound2005

This video from 2018 explains shows how the radio receiver, complete with ferrite rod aerial operates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDfioJkTaoI

As the video I linked to and other sources point out, nobody has said what will happen to the Teleswitch signal after the BBC broadcast signal closes. My guess is that it will continue, as it is impossible to get all the Smart Meters installed by September 2026. I can't find out anything about the modulation used for the Teleswitch signal, but if it was broadcast on its own it could probably operate with much lower power than Radio 4.

I have a watch which receives a radio signal from Germany every day at 2 am. That is only 50KW and is also LF but below the broadcast band, on 77.5 kHz. The aerial inside the watch is obviously tiny. If anyone is not getting that signal consistently, it can be boosted by placing the watch close to a radio with a ferrite rod. There is also a Time Signal station in England on 60 kHz which covers GB and beyond with 17 KW. Anyone can hear these signals using the online receivers which are all round the world. France continued its time signal on 162 kHz after the broadcast station closed down. It is a massive signal, easily picked up in Ireland also.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77#:~:text=The%20highly%20accurate%2077.5%20kHz,legal%20time%20to%20the%20public.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_from_NPL_%28MSF%29#:~:text=The%20Time%20from%20NPL%20is,United%20Kingdom's%20national%20time%20reference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALS162_time_signal

My Citizen Eco Drive watch is not as fancy as this one. It gets the signal from Germany with no trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TrGxoeLjJw

tinytobe

They have been prolonging the shutdown of 198 for years now. At some point they would have to have exchanged all the relevant meters. I don't even think the BBC pays for the transmitter anymore. Radio 4 is just carried there as an act of kindness rather than anything else. The transmitter for the time signal in France doesn't have that capability to have a radio transmission as well.

Infoanon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123740631#Comment_123740631

France Inter was carried on the162LW transmitter alongside the time signal information until 2016 iirc.