What Can be Picked up on Long Wave Around Ireland?

marno21

Radio 4 is on medium wave to fill in gaps where longwave reception is difficult

603 (Newcastle), 1449 (Aberdeen) and 1485 (Carlisle) are there to provide signal where there are "mush zones" between the 198 transmitters. The 198 transmitter at Burghead in North Scotland and the 198 transmitter at Westerglen in South Scotland do not interfere with one another despite their proximity as the land inbetween them is rock and not conducive to good ground wave propogation. Therefore the 198 from Burghead does not interfere with 198 from Westerglen in Glasgow/Edinburgh but as Aberdeen is in east coastal Scotland with better ground between it and the 2 transmitters, it requires a medium wave fill in as that better ground condition creates a mush zone between the 2 Scottish 198 transmitters. There is a mush zone between 198 Droitwich and 198 Westerglen in the English/Scottish border area hence the medium wave relays in Newcastle and Carlisle.

Northern Ireland has relays on 720 (Belfast/Lisnagarvey), 720 (Derry) and 774 (Enniskillen) due to the distance between NI and the UK mainland transmitters, and also the interference between Droitwich and Westerglen

Plymouth (774) and West Cornwall (756) have medium wave relays as the terrain across central Devon heavily attenuates the 198 LW signal and R4 LW signal is quite poor in those areas. 756kHz from Redruth, being in western Cornwall, is easily receivable along the Cork coast day and night, useful if your car radio does not have LW like mine.

London has 720kHz from Crystal Palace for any number of reasons, extra LW programming availability for such a large population, access to Today in Parliament in Westminster/Whitehall (urban legend), electromagnetic interference being higher in the urban area etc.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119819871#Comment_119819871

Thanks for that one. The explanation for London is something I've suspected for a long time.

Apart from that, I've never really noticed any issues with the 198 kHz transmitter anywhere in the UK and Ireland.

Declan A Walsh

Deleted or next best thing

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Antenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119816352#Comment_119816352

It came back on sometime Sunday afternoon.

Sunday morning on RTE R1, John Bowman's weekly archive programme looked at the early days of radio in Ireland. It was a bit ironic that their (LW) transmission which would be compatible with vintage (no FM) receivers was off the air at the time.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/bowman-sunday-830/programmes/2022/1030/1332243-bowman-sunday-830-sunday-30-october-2022/

Viscount Aggro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826417#Comment_119826417

Do you not think this man has taken enough money from us already?

I cant listen to him anymore.

OK, he is a consultant, but its people like him that are denying younger talent from getting work in media.

He is the worst example of the D4 clique.

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119818222#Comment_119818222

That's very much an urban legend - never been any hint of evidence that this is in place. In any case, even long wave radio signals can't penetrate more than around 20 metres below the surface of seawater, and most navy submarines will dive to depths a good bit deeper than this. Most one-way traffic to submerged military vessels is done on frequencies lower than this (ideally on VLF below 30kHz, but transmissions are in place up to 150 kHz) using frequency shift-keying in an encrypted format, received by vessels that often use trailing wire aerials that have a buoy attached to it. The very small bandwidth and small SNR required for messages to be received make up for hostile receiving conditions using a relatively inefficient aerial (only a fraction of a wavelength long) where a LW broadcast carrier would struggle to be detected. In any case, relying on a simple carrier for measuring national security has an obvious flaw - it's pretty damn easy to fake. I suspect this story about BBC R4 LW being part of the UK Navy defence system was brought about by certain interested people as an excuse to try and portray the transmissions as an essential part of the UK defence forces. Much more soberingly closer to the truth is that in recent years it has largely been GB electricity companies that has paid to keep these transmissions going (the LW TXs at least) as the carrier uses phase modulation to activate electrical meters for various timed tariffs like the famed Economy 7. This was due to end when the roll out of "smart meters" was completed but for various reasons has been delayed several times. Supposedly the current contract for this with Arqiva expires at the end of March 2023 - depending on circumstances the end of BBC R4 on LW may come quite quickly and suddenly.

TAFKAlawhec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119819871#Comment_119819871

In my experience, reception of 198 kHz in Belfast is usually decent as long as there isn't much man-made interference, but starts to degrade once you head westwards and hit the shores of Lough Neagh. In Omagh it's pretty much an anorak quality level - not in that it's very weak, but that it is clearly in a mush zone of two weakish signals from both Droitwich & Westerglen that suffers from a lot of echo and that pretty much goes for the whole service area of 774 kHz from Enniskillen in my experience. Daytime coverage of 774 kHz is good for 500 watts of ERP, but it does shrink at night thanks to heavy CCI from Spain.

Given that the long term plan is for Radio 4 to discontinue its otherwise long-standing LW (with MW fillers) opt-outs, a listenership to the LW service exclusively that is privately thought to be very small, rising energy costs and a cost in maintaining old AM transmitters & masts, at best the LW/MW BBC Radio 4 network has five or so years left before going dark - but if the rumours concerning electric companies no longer wanting to co-pay electric costs for the LW transmitters are true, then it could even be gone in less than six months.

cml387

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119847715#Comment_119847715

The source was well regarded academic Peter Hennessy, his book The Secret State: Preparing For The Worst 1945–2010 is a good read.

I suspect it is a very much last ditch check, when all else has failed.

Antenna

RTE on 252kHz is currently just a blank carrier tonight. Perhaps the link to it has broken down? ( though an FM receive of RTE R1 would be a simple obvious backup)

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875373#Comment_119875373

No, the transmitter of 252 will shut down for scheduled maintenance. I expect this will only take one day, which will be tomorrow.

The 252 should be back on the air, on the 16th.

Antenna

Back on the air now.. It was not off tonight due to scheduled maintenance

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875459#Comment_119875459

Apparently that's tomorrow, then. However not certain.

Pelvis Parsley

The R4 check is apparently just one of a number of fail safes which a surfacing sub (there's generally only one at a time) can call upon to ensure the continuation of civilisation-such as it is-in Britain.

The loss of Droitwich will be no means pre-empt the nuclear deterrent, nor will it turn off Auntie Mabel's hot water-smart metering is swiftly putting paid to that.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119875538#Comment_119875538

Went off just after the news, around 9:05. It went into a looped announcement for about a minute and then the transmitter was switched off.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119876145#Comment_119876145

I've just noticed it as well. Algeria is in the background and clearly audible.

tinytobe

RTE 252 seems to be on air again.

tinytobe

Apparently, the 252 will go off air again tomorrow, the 22nd of November. Is the reason known for the constant shut down of the transmitter?

tinytobe

RTL Radio on 234 kHz is now gone for good on your LW dial. The transmitter was turned off this morning.

Antenna

RTE's 252 LW off the air this morning, I presume a breakdown

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120063173#Comment_120063173

Given the apparent level of maintenance on this transmitter recently it’s amazing it’s not more resilient to breakdowns

tinytobe

I don't think there is any point for the RTE to keep the 252 on air.

Algeria is loud and clear in Ireland on 252. It surprises me how far the signal travels.

rathfarnhamlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120063873#Comment_120063873

I wouldn't be surprised if "maintenance" is a cover story for switching it off temporarily & seeing if there are any complaints. No complaints & the transmitter will (conveniently) suffer a "catastrophic failure" during maintenance. Then the transmitter will stay off the air permanently. Interesting timing considering this is just a couple of days after RTL shut down it's LW service.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065012#Comment_120065012

Most of the AM transmitters will be shut down over the next couple of years. They are just too costly to maintain and take too much energy regarding broadcasting and listenership is very very minimal. Don't know what RTE has in mind for Radio 1 on 252. There are certainly not much Irish listening in the UK to LW, the signal barely makes it to London.

rathfarnhamlad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120065874#Comment_120065874

I totally get what you're saying. Many places in the EU abandoned AM decades ago with the exception of the odd few low-power outfits. Such stations will be coming and going for a while yet I reckon.

Spain & Romania will surely stay the course for longer than most other countries.

As regards longwave, I'd give it until the middle of the decade at best before there's nothing but static on the band. Here's what's still left as far as I'm aware:

153 - Romania. The same programming is also broadcast on a network of much newer MW transmitters covering the whole country and further afield, so surely the older and essentially redundant LW transmitter will be axed soon.

171 - Morocco. I don't know a great deal about this one. As far as I am aware, it is a commercial station owned by a group of investors who by definition only answer to their shareholders. It may continue, or it may be scrapped in favour of satellite, FM (in some areas) & online streaming (which I will agree is not a potential total replacement for all other broadcasting methods).

189 & 207 - Iceland. From what I can gather this is part of an emergency alert network in addition to filling in FM coverage gaps. I know that there were plans (including test transmissions) to move this over to MW but don't know what became of it.

198 - BBC R4. Rumoured to be going off the air in March. Whether or not that is the case, we'll just have to wait and see.

207 - AM Italia. Launched last year. From what I can gather, test transmissions have now mostly ceased with efforts concentrating on MW & SW instead.

225 - Poland. Carries separate programming from FM, notably parliament coverage. More recently broadcasting content targeting Ukraine and Belarus so is doing an important job. Could be around for a while yet for geo-political reasons and could possibly be the last one standing.

243 - Denmark. Broadcasting only intermittently. This has been the case for a while now. Content aimed at mariners, although many people who are knowledgeable about maritime matters have been saying for years that this service isn't needed at all anymore, so maybe it'll be switched off soon.

252 - Algeria. On and off. Hard to tell what will happen with this one. It could continue for a while or it could go silent with little or no notice. I enjoy listing to their music programming in the evenings.

252 - RTE R1. With the power reductions & constant, lengthy outages, this is hardly a service that can be relied on anymore, despite seemingly being the most maintained transmitter on the planet.

The Mongolian stations seem to be a bit of a mystery. All I know is I heard from someone who was there a couple of years back who couldn't pick up anything at all on LW, day or night. Does anyone know if they are still on? I haven't found any SDRs near enough to try listening in.

Please feel free to correct me if I've missed out on anything...

Long drive one evening and as a tried various stations for something talk or interviews I was greeted by nothing but music stations. This was all on FM. Tried MW and LW but reception crackly and unclear. Radio 4 used to be strong and clear years back.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120072046#Comment_120072046

A good overview. Since you mentioned Spain, as far as I know they've never had a LW transmitter? At least not in my lifetime. Most MW transmitters have reduced power in Spain recently, that's probably the only thing I might be able to add here.

The two LW transmitters in Iceland are a bit of a mystery to me. Few cars have LW radios and even fewer people have LW radios at home, so why are they still broadcasting? They could have used MW as well to reach a bigger audience.

Apparently there was some rather recent upgrade work on the 225 transmitter in Poland. No idea about the reason why, or how long they are going to use it.

Regarding BBC Radio 4 on LW, I was never aware that they reduced power at all? I only heard that the BBC had plans to shut that one down as well, - however March 2023 was a bit early? I thought more about sometime 2024 or so? Given the current cost of energy it'll probably happen sooner than later, so a shutdown in March this year wouldn't surprise me?

153 is used by Antena Satelor in Romania, and their other MW transmitters don't cover the whole of Romania. Antenna Satelor also has no real decent FM coverage, except a couple of transmitters here and there. Maybe that's the reason why it's kept alive ? Radio Romania Actualitati also uses MW but covers the whole of Romania, so maybe there are still a good number of AM receivers in use in Romania? Radio Romania Actualitat does have complete FM coverage in Romania, with Antena Satelor doesn't have.

The LW transmitters in Algeria and Morocco are probably something of a left over from the French? If Algeria goes on and off all the time, it would indicate technical issues or issues getting spare parts? And then there are probably large parts of the desert to cover as well? Not certain and just speculation from my side.

The 252 in Ireland reduced power once before, and ever since that time, reception within the UK is rather bad. In London the 252 is hard to receive, unless one has a better receiver or a good antenna, and on the coast in places like Brighton reception is even harder, and often Algeria comes in. So if the 252 is meant to reach the Irish living in the UK then the RTE is more than wrong.

rathfarnhamlad

According to the ever-reliable source of information Wikipedia, there was a LW transmitter in the north of Spain at one point but there's no information as to when it was operational. There must have been a lot of interference from the other (state-owned) Moroccan station which was on the same frequency up until a couple of years back.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120074744#Comment_120074744

There have always been unconfirmed reports of a former LW transmitter at Logrono in Spain. Apparently the frequency was 207 kHz. I don't know when broadcasting ceased from that transmitter or whether this information is even correct at all.

I never recalled receiving any LW signals from Spain, but plenty on MW.

RetroEncabulator

Is there a particular reason why 252KHz is shared like that? It doesn't seem to make a ton of sense with so much empty spectrum and also the Algerian station just comes in all over RTE a lot of the time anyway - you'd wonder what value it really serves for the diaspora community in England that's usually mentioned when they have suggested closing it.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120076061#Comment_120076061

Probably due to lack of space at the time. If RTE ran at their maximum power levels (500 kW day, 100 kW night) I don’t think it would be as much of an issue. They physically can’t now due to the transmitter they have, but even that is only at half power.