Winter 21/22 Eviction Ban (was: And just like that, FFFG lose 298000 votes))

bluedex

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910140#Comment_119910140

Yes, I'd have to agree with that. Be interesting to see what the anti-enterprise crowd try to blame next.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119910140#Comment_119910140

You are dead right.

Its astounding how people have no idea at all that their constant rounding on landlords or any kind of carrot to get landlords to come back into the market is actually what causing politicians to gang up with them on landlords. Politicians arent going to stand up against the mob, even if they know they mob are the authors of their own problems. This has been only going one way for some years now, and there is no way back at this point. People got what they asked for and they are still asking for it.

Its the very definition of Turkeys voting for Christmas.

rightmove

Rental market shrinks by 43,000 homes in five years as landlords cash in on their properties

yep hit with the sensational greed induced anti LL headline.

why didnt they go for

Rental market shrinks by 43,000 homes in five years as landlords Forced out by incompentent virtue signalling and are not able to provide much needed rental accomodation

rightmove

that was from the indo this morning ... bunch a clowns

DownByTheGarden

You know whats next. A special levy on the sale of rental properties, to persuade landlords not to sell. You read it here first. Time to sell now before that one becomes a reality. I was going to wait til after Chritmas but this is getting even more scary than it was already.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119936373#Comment_119936373

That would be extremely difficult to justify constitutionally.

However, a total removal of sale as a justification for selling is much more likely. And may create more of a market for selling on tenanted properties, albeit with the potential of a drop in potential sale value.

dennis72

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119937565#Comment_119937565

This kicked off 10 years ago rents started rising and as new taxes and higher standards where introduced

Rent caps have produced the predicted result, however eviction bans will exacerbate the situation

With higher costs, admin and taxes lls would have to double exsisting rents to make it viable, those who are leaving don't remove risk it will happen.

Making something cheaper doesn't make it more available.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938115#Comment_119938115

Seriously the logical thing to do is reduce taxation on rental income, it may be politically unpalatable but it’s the only way to get landlords to maybe hang on and not sell, as it stands all small landlords essentially don’t do it for a living and because of tax costs aren’t covered on a monthly basis, if they could get even 3-400 euros a month after costs they’d think twice about selling and maybe more investors would come in, to do that at the moment without reducing taxes rents would have to increase dramatically.

And this nonsense about owning an asset, is just that nonsense, none of these accidental landlords wanted to be landlords in the first place, they don’t want to keep the asset as can be seen from the amount fleeing the market, they’re essentially providing asocial service for free and in some cases having to pay as the rent doesn’t meet costs.

Why is everything a stick? eviction bans, rent freezes and all the rest when the answer is staring the government in the face

bluedex

All the posters saying the interference like rent freezes and termination bans won't contract the market seem to have disappeared...

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938657#Comment_119938657

Because anything interpreted as landlord friendly will be seized upon by the opposition and we've an election coming up in a couple of years.

It's as simple as that, they don't care about the common good unless it conveniently aligns with saving their own skins at election time.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938657#Comment_119938657

I have said the same all along. If they reduce the tax on landlords and offer them support on dealing with trouble tenants, we won't see so many leaving the market.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939255#Comment_119939255

I remember the day rent controls were introduced by Simon Coveny. Lots of people posted articles and videos of research done on rent controls and where they lead to. There were lots of examples of it happeing. Here we are a decade or so later now, and we are going to be the poster child going forward for why rent controls should never happen.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119939343#Comment_119939343

The turkeys are still voting for Christmas and no politician is going to try to persuade so many of them what they are doing to themselves.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119938657#Comment_119938657

Can I have a free house and €400 a month too?

If the government can do this, why not just give everyone a free house and save the taxpayer €400 per month per household per month?

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119940289#Comment_119940289

Only a matter of time before this response shows up, as has been said turkeys voting for Christmas

The ban on evictions is really the last straw. Two of my tenants have been there over ten years and I don't really want to ask them to leave but the idea that I can't sell the house when I want to is very worrying. I now live 120 miles from it and it really doesn't make sense to hang on to it any longer.

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119940385#Comment_119940385

It was a bit tongue in cheek, but neither extreme is realistic.

A middle ground where equity and rent rceived for buy to let properties was treated similarly to a pension fund as deferred income, with strict rules around early release of funds or equity and taxation as deferred income or on disposal of the assett could be constructed in a way to encourage long term investment in providing property to rent without essentially asking a tennant to buy their landlord's house for them.

You don't expect to contribute nothing to a pension fund, take €300 - €400 per month out of it fo twenty or thirty years and still have a substantial lump sum and/or pension when you retire. Why should propety be any different from an investment point of view?

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119940757#Comment_119940757

Had the same fight with the wife a couple of months ago. Our tenants were leaving anyway so we just decided enough was enough. They left recently and we've the it ready to go on the market now in the new year.

SwimClub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119940889#Comment_119940889

If you were staying in a hotel I doubt you'd claim that you were buying the hotel for the owners, even though they are letting out rooms and probably have financing on the place. I'd imagine the majority of small landlords with a mortgage are looking at getting out because eviction bans and the risk of non paying tenants while you pay a mortgage are too much risk for too little reward. Low yield investments are supposed to be low risk. Losing 20% of a property value on unpaid rent and legal fees in a protracted case with the RTB (not to mention the stress) on top of the usual risk of price drops of up to 50% in Irish property is too much risk for most. Lowering the income tax might make some reconsider but it will never happen. You can come up with some middle ground if you want, to treat it as a hypothetical negotiation but I don't think many are hanging around to negotiate at this point, they have literally been scared out of the market. I'm getting out in the medium term before the tenancy switches to indefinite duration, I will send a very long duration notice in the new year, don't want to do it just before Christmas.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119942107#Comment_119942107

We got to the point that we couldnt keep up with what rules we had to follow or not they were changing so often.

It even got to the point where we were afraid to even speak to tenants or potential tenants in case we said something the we would end up in the papers for or something. It was a shock to me one day when I was told i couldnt even ask someone for a work reference. Had to go and look it up to see what i was and wasnt allowed to say.

And we were one of the few actually making a decent profit. It just go too much like a swamp of bureaucracy, and the risk was just increasing all the time.

Enough was enough. Life will be much easier now. It already is, and its not even sold yet.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119944499#Comment_119944499

Fully agree. Improving tax treatment may help some landlords hang around, but its not the main driver for the flight of the landlords. The process for evicting non-paying tenants, the acceptance of overholding, eviction bans to prevent a LL reclaiming a property for sale or own use, risk of massive fines for discriminating against HAP recipients, a constant stream of new requirements on standards and compliance, an inability to ever reach market rent in the "temporary" rent pressure zones which are now in effect permanent..... This is what is killing supply - not tax.

The only way out is abolishing all this red tape - and thats just never going to happen.

herbalplants

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119947640#Comment_119947640

Very true, all the new rules are killing the landlords. Fact is :it is the landlord assset, they went through the bother owning it so they should do what they want with their asset. The way it is going smells of communism and cool at all.

I noticed there is a small development not far from me, built on land sold by a school, mix of apartments and houses owned by vulture fund but it is sitting empty. Nobody moved in yet for few months now even so it is completed. I wonder what is going on.

It is annoying this small development is not out there for sale. But no, it was built purposely for rent.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119947773#Comment_119947773

Probably waiting for the eviction ban to end and then there will be so many looking for rentals that the government will pay top dollar for 20 or 30 years because they then have to house all of the people they have caused top be homeless this time - again.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119947773#Comment_119947773

Most funds value their investments on the basis of yield. This means they are just concerned with the units being rented at top-of-the-market rent - leaving a property vacant for a long time while waiting for the high rent to be achieved is OK for them. Taking lower rent which cant be increased because of RPZs is not OK - it kills the book value of their assets. They can afford to play the long game, and sadly, even in a homeless crisis, this is not unusual. Another unintended consequence of RPZs.

dennis72

The 2 year RPZ which allows a property return to market would work better for a non reit ll as they would save on taxes they don't pay

Its better longterm both for asset value, less w&t, taxes and over 10yr rent is very similar.

I would suspect reits have told govt don't even think about changing it...

dennis72

Weather will effect both armies

For the soldier it all about who is better feed and kitted

I think defenders are a more appreciated force by its administration, than the invaders dictator that shoots its own if they retreat.

Terrain, reliable and appropriate vehicles to match very important

ingo1984

I'd say it's highly likely the eviction ban will be extended past its current termination date. It was originally brought in due to lack of alternative rental properties. Nothing has changed in the interim so I envisage it will be extended again either by another 6 months or until end of 2023. Far more votes in renters than in private landlords.

The Spider

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119992762#Comment_119992762

Government minister came out on the tonight show and said it absolutely won’t be extended beyond March April, if there’s a property crash or major slowdown by then I’d say they’ve achieved what they set out to do, if landlords hold off on selling in a crash, if there isn’t then I’d expect tax incentives to try keep what landlords they have in the market but they’ll leave it until the last minute

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119940289#Comment_119940289

Sure go on the dole and housing list, you'll get more than 400 a month and a house in the location of your choice.

ingo1984

Let's be honest, government ministers have said alot of things that don't come to fruition. I believe that the potential crisis of mass evictions and no where to go will force their hand. The original ban was purely kicking the can down the road but nothing has changed in the intervening period.