solve the housing problem easily...some solutions?

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896669#Comment_119896669

If the council or some other organisation with deep pockets did not buy the properties on the open market, the prices would not experience the same upward pressure. Highest bidder wins. Remove the council, hedge funds, housing charities etc and there would be a much better chance for first time buyers. They should not be the ones disadvantaged because others claim to be.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896704#Comment_119896704

That might help buyers but what about renters? There's a rental crisis too.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896809#Comment_119896809

With more "private" properties being made available to buyers, the same would be true for renters. When property prices are low, so too are rental prices, so it makes for a healthier market if we separate the supply chains. Of course there are way more issues at play, but this is a big part of it.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896919#Comment_119896919

Rental prices don't follow property prices quite that way however. For example in the property bubble before the last financial crisis property prices outstripped rents by quite a large margin. The problem with limiting those who can buy is that you also limit overall investment in the market and, other things being equal, the number of units built.

babyducklings1

Was in Dublin recently and people were walking around a sleeping bag with a homeless sleeper inside. It’s absolutely dreadful, I lived in Dublin years ago and this wasn’t around, or at least no where near to the extent it is now. Something is wrong. You hear of places like skid row in the US and this problem. But we never had this in Ireland. I know the problems are multi faceted due to the changes in society but it’s just appalling. Something is wrong or broken.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119897745#Comment_119897745

Rental prices very closely follow property prices. When property prices are high, rents are high. When property prices are on their knees, rents are very low. There is always some crossover and judder, but they correlate closely. You must remember the last boom/bust differently than I. The houses on my street were renting for €2,200pm on average when the house prices were 400k in 2007. By 2010, the price to buy was average of 200k. And the rent.....around €1,100 pm. Prices in my area are average of 450k now. Average rent is €2,500 and the pickings are very slim. Compare rentals and cost to buy anywhere inside a city or large urban area and the same is replicated over at least the last 20 years. I don't care to look back any further.

The problem with is not with limiting those who can buy. The problem is having a single market where the deepest pockets suck up almost all of the domestic stock which either goes to people with no jobs, or they are rented at a premium by some sort of fund. Domestic property should not be allowed to be part of an investment fund. Councils should not be allowed to buy out from under hard working people to give to people who weren't bothered to get a job and opted for strategic begging. Not every council tenant is the same and some are genuine circumstances, but most are cultural or strategic. It's just wrong and is a kick in the teeth for those making a real contribution to society.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119898621#Comment_119898621

You wrote: "Rental prices very closely follow property prices. When property prices are high, rents are high. When property prices are on their knees, rents are very low."

In general this is not true. See chart below:

Ireland Price to Rent Ratio

What this indicates is that there have been huge fluctuations in price as a proportion of rents [source]. If what you were claiming were true, this chart would be more or less flat.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119898879#Comment_119898879

It gets a bit skewed when you take the whole country into account for ratios as you well know. If you only took the cities and towns (like I said) into account; you know...where most people want to live and where the councils and funds are outbidding FTBs, the picture would be very different. I couldn't find anything more specific than the national ratio. I do believe that rents now are higher with regard to property prices in the large urban areas than they were just before the last crash, but that's because there is more demand for rentals which has been inflamed by the fact that less people can buy than before the last crash.

CorkRed93

https://twitter.com/killianwoods/status/1594351979047755776

airbnb rearing its head again

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899158#Comment_119899158

However it is important to take into account the entire country rather than a single street as your street may not be representative of the whole country.

...Ghost...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899839#Comment_119899839

Taking the whole country average rent and purchase ratio is like taking the average world temperature to plan your wardrobe for a summer in Lapland. It is pointless and might leave you holding sunscreen in a snowstorm.

I gave my street as anecdotal and real life experience as I had around the peak of the boom been renting a property near to where I live now and where I grew up. I purchased at the peak and I know the rental pride of the property dropped from €1800 in 2008 to €800 in 2010. I had been very in tune with purchase prices in Dublin in general, as well as rental prices for work reasons. Taking an average just doesn't give us what we need in the context of the points I made.

I made my point several posts ago, so I'll leave it there.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899910#Comment_119899910

We need to be careful generalizing from a particular example to the whole country.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896067#Comment_119896067

Absolutely true.

From the numbers nationwide the rental housing crisis is probably the worst in the developed world, East, West, you name it!

The lack of housing is astonishing across the country.

Just go to Daft.ie and look yourself.

maninasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119896490#Comment_119896490

It's not only Dublin though.

It's actually the entire country basically. Just search Limerick , Cork, Galway or even towns or counties such as Kildare. You are getting single digits, double digits for rental properties in towns and cities!

And this my friends is a record breaking situation

Limerick city -8, Galway City -33, Cork City - 45, Kildare County -53 , Athlone and Surrounds -11, Waterford County -28

The situation seems to be as bad as Dublin or worse in certain places such as Limerick.

riclad

our population has been increasing since 2010 ,but the no of rental propertys or houses for sale has not kept up with demand , there simply is not enough rental units avaidable in citys or large towns .there are new hotels and offices being built but where will those workers live .and thats before the people from ukraine started to come here ,

What do ye reckon, will this go some way towards freeing up properties for sale and long-term rentals? I think so but a lot will come down to the implementation

https://www.irishtimes.com/politics/2022/11/26/new-rules-will-force-12000-homes-out-of-short-lets-market-minister-says/

It’s understood the new rules will mean anyone offering accommodation for up to and including 21 nights will need to be registered with Fáilte Ireland. Platforms offering short-term lets will be required to check property details and only advertise properties with a valid registration number.

All short-term and holiday lettings will be required to register with Fáilte Ireland via an online portal that will confirm whether they have the necessary planning permissions. The tourism body has estimated the measure will take 12,000 full-unit properties – meaning houses or apartments – out of short-term platforms.

The agency said there was about 27,000 properties with 130,000 beds in the State being advertised on online platforms, with 20,000 of them thought to cover full properties. Sources indicated that the plan is to have the legislation through the Oireachtas and the required European Union notification procedures in place by the end of March next year.

Personally I'd prefer if they just outright banned AirBnB etc but I guess this is the next best thing 

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927393#Comment_119927393

yep would prefer a blanket ban on airbnb but hopefully this helps.

Topgear on Dave

Ome more good hard crackdown in the landlords will fix it, just one more set of rules. That will sort it. Definitely this time.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927393#Comment_119927393

It will make no difference. People ate too afraid to rent longterm now especially where they will require possession of the house within the next 12-36 months. Even then the rules regarding renting are too onerous for anyone entering the market now.

If you target you 90 day allowance to weekend's and high priced times ( concerts etc) you can probably achieve 8-10k for a one bed and 15k for a two bed. Maybe leave a few card at the accomodation for off the book lettings.

Most of the houses that have left the long term letting ate never returning. If they continue to change the rules much further when my present tenant's leave o e of my properties ( a small farmhouse) I be changing it to an aerBnB.

The funny thing is I will have no problem changing the planning I reckon on a H&S grounds

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119927557#Comment_119927557

the country would be in a much better place without airbnb.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928911#Comment_119928911

Would it. There is always a demand fir short-term accomodation. This drives other parts of the economy. There is no guarantee that these houses will return to the long term letting.

There is a percentage of properties that are maybe granny flats or small units next to an existing property that are unsuitable for long term letting or where the owner have no interest in renting longterm

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119928911#Comment_119928911

Tourism is our biggest indigenous industry. Tourism industry is reckoned to take a 1 billion hit next year due to hotels used for refugees n asylum seekers. If air bnb is banned we can forget about tourism going forward.

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/ireland-inbound-tourist-numbers-in-february-still-below-pre-pandemic-levels/

According to ITIC, employment in the tourism sector was at around 242,500 in February

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929006#Comment_119929006

A more recent link from the same site you reference

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/23-european-cities-ask-eu-to-limit-short-term-rentals/

The European Alliance of Cities for Short-Term Rentals has published a letter addressing this need to tighten short-term rentals, SchengenVisaInfo.com reports.

In this regard, the mayors, deputy mayors, and other city officials of Barcelona, ​​Bologna, Brussels, Arezzo, Paris, Vienna, Amsterdam, Brussels, Lyon, Porto, and Florence and 12 other EU cities claim that the European Commission is abandoning the project of a legislative initiative that would regulate the way people rent their properties for short-term vacationers.

In Amsterdam, for example, short-term holiday rental listings rose from 4,500 in 2013 to 22,000 in 2017. Meanwhile, in the Lisbon neighbourhood, Alfama, more than 55 per cent of apartments are now listed under platforms as Booking and Airbnb for short-term renting.

In addition, in the centre of Florence since 2015, they have increased by 60 per cent and in Kraków by 100 per cent between 2014 and 2017.

So it looks like there much more to come on this.

It wasnt me123

It’s not private landlords or Airbnb’s fault for the situation we are in. It’s the government who have no plan apart from to get private developers to build for them - why can’t our county council’s build again? We have plenty of empty buildings, both residential and commercial - why don’t the county councils renovate them so they can be put back into use?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929628#Comment_119929628

County Councils don't build, they hire others to do it for them.

In that vein pretty much every council have companies restoring/renovating properties but this is incredibly slow and expensive as each one is a custom solution.

In terms of new builds, this is where the councils agree to buy x units off the plans + social housing + affordable housing allocations.

After that they are also doing the retrofits of existing social housing to bring them up to B1/A2 ratings.

Then you have the projects the councils have being built which are exactly what you are talking about.

With all of the above though, there's a lot of things to also factor in

• A finite amount of builders
• Inflation increasing costs which means less completions for the same cost
• Planning delays
• Supply chain delays
• Etc

At the end of the day, you can shout and roar all you want, but if the materials are not there and there's no contractors available then nothing will be built in the time frame needed.

On the flip side, it is 100% possible to return 25,000+ properties to the long term rental market overnight by banning airbnb.

It's a no brainer to be honest

macraignil

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929694#Comment_119929694

So your solution to the housing crisis is to kill the tourism industry in Ireland?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929838#Comment_119929838

Come back to me when you know how many hotel bedrooms there are in the country.

I think you'll find that the phrase "we're grand" pretty much covers it

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929694#Comment_119929694

I agree with everything regarding LA and house building. If the councils build or refurbish more it will effect building elsewhere as resources will be transfered from ron one area to another. However I do think with tweaks to the system we can get nearer 30k units per year.....as long as it's profitable for developers/builders to continue and as long as they can access resources.

However I think that banning aerBnB will return houses to residential use is probably optimistic and unrealistic.

I think a large cohort will either continue the 90 day use and let the property empty. Remember these regs are only for RPZ's anyway.

I think if the government wants to bring those sorts of numbers back in use in the rental area it needs to change some of the rental regulation and give a carrot to these people to return

However any carrot would have to knock on effects on small LL and would cost the government too much

riddles

Looking to the government to do anything other than create problems is a waste of time. They know they are writing cheques they can’t cash at the moment.

One of our many issues is the imminent collapse in the tax payer ratio. Something which the government knows well but is not commenting on. They are trying to erode / delete the OAP as an example.

When you have an unknown and unplanned demand with housing you can never meet that demand as is the case with housing - “if you build it they will come” suits this problem very well.

At least looking at the demand trying to understand what commitments we need to make and can pay for is a logical possible starting point. Socially housing economic migrants makes no sense at all.

The international protection program as laudable a concept it may well be in theory. Is now a dismal failure hijacked by people traffickers and criminals in general. The people are buying from these gangs the promise of a better life. So why have borders?

I don’t know what the answer is but I also know the current government aren’t doing anything but adding to the problem. As soon as we can’t borrow money the party is over. What happens to social cohesion then.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119929952#Comment_119929952

Remember these regs are only for RPZ's anyway.

I hadn't seen that mentioned anywhere? Do you have any more details on that or where its mentioned?