Sabina Higgins Letter to Irish Times calling for ceasefire on Ukraine

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411632#Comment_119411632

Sabina Higgins has free speech.

Sabina Higgins does not get to silence others' free speech in telling her that what she said was utter rot and straight out of the Russian propaganda playbook.

I do not want an Irish presidency which gives succour to Nazis. And that's what is happening here.

Pussyhands

So I assume by all the extremists takes in this thread, that anyone who ever negotiated with another country for peace is wrong.

I assume Palestine should never negotiate peace with Israel in that case? They should continue to use terrorists, child soldiers etc to defeat the Israeli military.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411665#Comment_119411665

This is the exact way supporters of Russia write.

"All views are equally valid".

Nothing is true and everything is possible, apparently.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411656#Comment_119411656

I thought you were serious there with your post lol so you're being satirical then.

Well done you had me there lol

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411643#Comment_119411643

Russia has invaded most of it's neighbours in the recent past. There was some plausible denial when little green me turned up in Crimea but it is hard to argue their case with a straight face now. Putin even admitted that the war was not about denazification or NATO in his Peter the great speech, it is a pure land grab.

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411678#Comment_119411678

Why should Ukraine capitulate to a regime which wants their extermination as a people?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411681#Comment_119411681

But you have been free to call out the validity of what she said as others have. I have criticised it myself.

What more is it you want?

Snooker Loopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411696#Comment_119411696

Personally I would like Michael D. Higgins to strongly and categorically dissociate himself from his wife's moronic comments - which Russia is openly promoting - and if he doesn't do so, I would prefer if he resigned, despite me voting for him previously.

I do not want a president or a presidency that gives any succour whatsoever to a genocidal Nazi regime. This is indeed what is happening.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411632#Comment_119411632

You're full of the buzz phrases that mean nothing Francie.

russia is losing, the facts are that anyone agitating for a ceasefire now will be directly aiding russia, the aggressor and instigator of this conflict.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411715#Comment_119411715

He has called for Russia to withdraw, his statement was linked to on the thread earlier.

joseywhales

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411571#Comment_119411571

I don't really care about a battalion of less than 2k or whether some were considered nazis by Russia. It's seems insignificant in the scale of the war. And you would have to wonder if they would exist at all if parts of Ukraine had not been forcibly occupied in 2014. I would have more sympathy for the Russian perspective if the Ukrainian forces were occupying Russian territory. At this point I mostly care about respecting recognized international borders and that breaking such international norms by force , should never be rewarded as it leads to greater instability for all of us. That's why I would support Ukrainian resistance as long as they are willing to fight. Even if they cannot win back all that was lost, the hope is that they would traumatize Russia and weaken it's international influence, so as to undermine the current Russian regime. It's not like Russia doesn't have problems. They have contested regions and potential uprisings from Japan, to Caucasus, to Chechnya, Georgia, eastern Europe and now Nordic accession to NATO and Turkey the age old opportunists looking for weakness. If things collapse in Russia, they could collapse very quickly. It's not a waste of time to test their resilience.

GalwayMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411735#Comment_119411735

You're missing the point here, he needs to distance from his wife's by re-iterating without equivocation Ukraine's self-determination and territorial integrity and being allowed to make it's own choices without external pressures that's all.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411665#Comment_119411665

🤣 "The thread is about free speech"

Is that because you figure you can make a case out of that easier than the entire reason she made the comments, namely the war that russia started.

Give over.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411665#Comment_119411665

Going against the stated position of the Government and the Dáil is a major part of it. If Mrs Higgins had written a letter criticising Putin and Russia, it would be a total non story and wouldn't have even been picked up on.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411794#Comment_119411794

What?

The thread is about her right to say what she felt.

The in's and out's of the war itself are not the issue here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411823#Comment_119411823

Her words aid the russian side, they are entirely relevant. Even the russian ambassador said as much. Wiggle all you like but she's a useful idiot.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411763#Comment_119411763

He has done that already, as the statement posted earlier showed.

His wife never said anything about Ukraine self determination rights or it's territorial integrity.

You are reading stuff into the letter that isn't there.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406227#Comment_119406227

And Which Russia was grateful for.

She has to use some cop on and nuance as well.

GalwayMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411845#Comment_119411845

Apologies for getting that wrong but will need to keep any diplomatic tensions with Eastern European states from affecting unity on the protocol and just do more research before writing an opinion that might upset the Ukrainian community especially with the trauma they're experiencing at the moment.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411836#Comment_119411836

Lol, the Russian ambassador has been using anything he can find to 'aid the cause' even the ridiculous idea to change the name of the street the embassy is on, as a 'woe is me' 'victimhood' cry. The only people who would take any notice would be the already pro Russian ones.

RTE interviewed a Ukrainian diplomat yesterday who while disagreeing with Higgins understood fully it was not the official Irish position.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411880#Comment_119411880

You don't need to be knowingly pro russian to be one of their useful idiots, just adopt positions and agitate for things that aid them, which is what a ceasefire would do.

It's kind of tragic how people here who would probably call themselves liberals can't abide someone having a differing opinion to them..

The western/Ukranian propaganda machine obviously worked wonders this time..

Big Ears

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411678#Comment_119411678

What do you believe a ceasefire and a negotiated peace agreement would look like if it did come about soon ?

Specifically in relation to territory, but also reparations access to Black sea and any other prominent issues.

Also are you confident Ukrainians living in territory captured by the Russians wouldn't be subject to genocide if that area remains in Russian hands ?

joseywhales

I completely respect her opinion and her right to express it but not her platform, she has not been elected to office, she does not represent anyone.

20silkcut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411894#Comment_119411894

No the Russian terrorist regime worked wonders here by revealing their true identity and making themselves the pariahs they have become. As we speak they are burning POWs alive ffs.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411894#Comment_119411894

This is Ireland, nobody calls themselves liberals.

sdanseo

As far as the merits of this as a political intervention, the President is limited by the constitution from addressing the nation without the approval of the government. He is therefore free to say anything not to national media which he pleases. There is no such restriction on his wife and while it is clear her views should not have been published on the President's website (which might constitute a national address, but they were not the President's remarks) she has done absolutely nothing wrong, and nor has Michael D really, given it was deleted. If an tUachtarán was preaching this from the pulpit ad nauseum, we would be in a different situation constitutionally.

Breaking the comments down: all she's effectively said is that Ukraine should sue for peace. Is that really a ridiculous suggestion? Superpower threatens what is by comparison a small country (which has put up a fairly miraculous fight, and should be commended, don't get me wrong) but would losing three territories which were fighting amongst themselves anyway really be the worst outcome considering the benefits of stopping the war? Sure, Putin might come after the rest of Ukraine again in a few years, but there would be time to rebuild, join the EU, possibly NATO and Putin's not getting any younger during all that.

Worth a mention that we have a part of this island where once a clear 50% of people are majority in favour of secession many here and on this board will want a border poll without delay. Why should Donetsk or Luhansk be any different if it can be demonstrated that most are in favour locally? I'm speaking objectively because that's a BIG "if" but it's worth remembering our perspective.

Ending the conflict even temporarily would help the EU as well, relieving immediate pressures on energy supply and stemming the tide of migration which in Ireland at least, it's pretty clear we can't cope with.

All this would be moot if Russia didn't have nukes of course. NATO at this point would just trample them into obsolescence and rightly so. But the reality is, they do. And would use them. That means that while the west shouldn't appease them.. WW2 taught us some lessons hopefully ..a hardline military stance is very difficult to fathom given the potential consequences. It's a catch 22 as far as a permanent resolution goes.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411929#Comment_119411929

You tell me, seeing as anyone who would support a ceasefire is called pro putin, so you people seem to know exactly what it means.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412002#Comment_119412002

Well, a ceasefire would mean the Russians are still in possession of Kherson and Mariupol, two Ukrainian cities. Very difficult to see how they would ever agree to voluntarily withdraw from the two cities and hand them back over to Ukraine (if they did that, then what was even the point of the invasion or occupying them?).

20silkcut

Indeed