What is the the root of this behaviour..

Jequ0n · 28-07-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399145#Comment_119399145

It is clearly obsessive.

The constant bombardment with messages/ calls etc simply serves to keep the victim booked and constantly within reach. There will have been an expectation to respond to him at all times too.

One Who Waits... · 28-07-2022 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399777#Comment_119399777

That is shocking. Decent sentence for a change. Bullet in the back of the head is what he should get. Really makes me wonder what kind of scumbags walk among us.

Hangdogroad · 29-07-2022 8:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399777#Comment_119399777

There are some people you know are utter creeps just to look at.

CreadanLady · 29-07-2022 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390257#Comment_119390257

That might be the reason given, but the reality of it is that there simply isn't enough prison space to accommodate all the people we might like to imprison, and to keep them there for as along as we would like, and there is no votes to be got by spending money ob building new prisons.

EmmetSpiceland · 29-07-2022 5:22pm

A quick “red flag” to look out for with people like this is the locking of internal doors around the house.

This is, usually, a clear sign of someone who likes to, and wants to, be in control. Hang around them long enough and more signs will reveal themselves.

Try not to let it get that far, if you can. If you see the locked doors inside, about the house, just get out and don’t look back.

Annasopra · 30-07-2022 10:46am

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0729/1313011-gang-rape-sentencing/

I struggle to understand how on earth these 3 men have partners who actively support them.

Larbre34 · 30-07-2022 10:57am

In all these cases, its the presence of narcissistic sociopathic personality disorder in the offender.

This isn't a mental illness, as such, which can be genetic, medical, acquired or environmental, but more straightforwardly a personality disorder, which is almost certainly environmental, though research into the depth of this is ongoing.

A narcissistic sociopath describes a dangerous person who demonstrates traits and symptoms of both narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) and antisocial personality disorder (APD). They derive satisfaction from manipulating, deceiving, using, and abusing others in order to get what they want.

Your classic examples include Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.

Wanderer78 · 30-07-2022 11:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407056#Comment_119407056

all cluster b's alright, was just watching an interview on histrionic, mental stuff really, apd also comes to mind in this case, so thats very likely the disorder at play

Jequ0n · 30-07-2022 11:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407056#Comment_119407056

In some cases, yes, but not in all. Not every person who choses to do hurt others has a pd.

Likewise there are many people with these diagnoses who do not behave in such a way.

Wanderer78 · 30-07-2022 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407166#Comment_119407166

what other types of disorders could be involved, other than cluster b's?

Jequ0n · 30-07-2022 11:40am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119407168#Comment_119407168

Some people are just plain arseholes, even without a pd. Sadism is not exclusively linked to aspd either. It’s possible the guy has a Cluster b pd, and he will surely be assessed for it.

But aspd and npd are not always the reasons why people do such things. Disordered or not, each person still has the choice to do something or leave it.

Larbre34 · 30-07-2022 5:05pm

They do have the choice, like any person, but when your inclinations and compulsions are strong due to a PD....'disordered or not' becomes a very unequal ratio.

There's also no chance he/they'll be assessed for it in prison, why would they waste the resources? Its not like it needs to be established for a trial, they've already been convicted and shown to have criminal responsibility, whether they have a PD or not is irrelevant to their confinement. I mean the Garda is hardly likely to be in general pop. in any case, is he?

Wanderer78 · 30-07-2022 6:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408299#Comment_119408299

maybe appropriate assessments and treatment in the prison system could prevent future crimes, maybe!

Sardonicat · 30-07-2022 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408801#Comment_119408801

There is no treatment.

Wanderer78 · 30-07-2022 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408850#Comment_119408850

im aware theres no treatment for some cluster b disorders, but appropriate supports may help some within the judicial system, and outside of it, we must continue researching such disorders, in order to try understand them, in the hope of developing future treatments

Larbre34 · 30-07-2022 9:36pm

As a first priority, we must provide an active system of escape, shelter and confidence for people, mainly Women, such as the victims in this week's sentencing hearings.

Its almost impossible to detect and treat Cluster Bs before they commit an offence, as making a change to themselves is not something that interests them. Limiting their ability to abuse victims by increasing awareness and help for those victims as early as possible, is the best investment.

Jequ0n · 30-07-2022 9:56pm

There is some treatment but in most cases it’s not very effective, and a large number of affected people will not avail of it. These blanket statements and stereotypes are somewhat counter productive.

The Nal · 31-07-2022 10:28am

More to come

Sardonicat · 31-07-2022 11:11am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119408865#Comment_119408865

Any successful treatment depends solely on the willingness to engage with treatment. The basic personality structure cannot be altered. You can't make someone not take pleasure in causing suffering. You can, if the individual is open to it, support them in reflecting on their behaviour and its impact on others. Help them gain insight, so to speak. BUT it's not always such a good idea to give manipulators the tools to become even better at manipulating.

The execption I'd make here is with Boderline Personality Disorder, now known as Emotional Disregulation Disorder. Very unfairly lumped together with other cluster B disorders, but the root cause of their behaviour is an attempt to control overwhelming and fluctuating emotional states. Very treatable once the sufferer is open to it.

I don't accept in any way that people who are classified as NPD or APD are in any way ill. I see those labels merely as a way to medically classify clusters of specific behaviours and character traits, nothing more. I also don't accept they lack empathy. They are people who choose to act in ways that are solely beneficial to themselves because they simply do not care about how their actions affect others. They choose not to care. You can't manipulate others if you lack empathy, because in order to understand what motivates others, what will cause pain to others, you have to have empathy. These people are just wicked, evil, whatever word for bad to the bone that you want to use. They choose their behaviours that harm others because they enjoy harming others. They are scum. Nothing more complicated than that.

Jequ0n · 31-07-2022 11:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410874#Comment_119410874

I actually agree with a lot you are saying, though not all of it. The problem is that most people don’t realise that there are different types of empathy, and cognitive empathy can be learned even though the other types can be severely impacted, or missing entirely in some cases.

At the end of the day it’s down to each individual what they chose to do, and they do know right from wrong. That’s why you will have crossed paths with people suffering from these pds without ever having realised it. Not all act on their impulses or have violent tendencies.