Abuse of Referees

rpurfield

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121682273#Comment_121682273

Black cards do so it would make sense to tidy all that up. On the fitness tests I seen John Fogarty Tweeting earlier about the hurling refs test and he added that they trained in pods. I think that's a nonsense as obviously these lads train and I'm sure the football lads would train as hard. To me its a needless dig

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121664943#Comment_121664943

I think they cannot do that any longer. The accused can make an offer, the plantiff can accept it and the judge can take it into account.

dxhound2005

The TMO suggestion is not being taken up. As it says in the report, it would be impractical to examine say 30 scores in every game to assess number of steps in the build up. Compared to VAR judging typically 4 scores in soccer. But that won't stop the experts in the studio using their own TMO/VAR to have a go at the officials, for not having eyesight as good as their cameras.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0130/1429369-no-immediate-prospect-of-gaa-introducing-tmo/

callaway92

I do think a TMO/Review system would do no harm for straight red card decisions or hard hit decisions to be upgraded to a red, fighting off ball red card upgrades etc.

There's too much BS in each phase of play like borderline throw passes ( or like mentioned above about steps) that I can't see them introduced. Maybe there's a fine art to knowing fully whether something was a square ball or not too.

Gusser09

Throw balls are easy to stop. Just get the referees to enforce the rule that's there. A few months of blowing for 20 frees in a game because of foul hand passing will sort it. But referees need to be backed from all stakeholders on it especially the media.

I think for a TMO there is simply too many incidents in hurling to have it in effectively. Most of the beauty of the game is the sheer speed of it. Make no mistake a TMO will kill the intensity during games.

It my feeling that we need two refs though at this stage. That will help.

2 refs, 4 umpires, two linemen and a 4th official. Surely that many officials should be able to get most decisions right.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700337#Comment_121700337

You have contradicted yourself there.

'Throw balls are easy to stop'

'Just get the the referees to enforce the rule thats there' - sorry, there is nothing easy about enforcing this rule.

The easy - and in my view - correct thing to do here is accept its an amateur organisation with referees who do their best, but get things wrong - and live with that. Its just sport.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700382#Comment_121700382

Referees are clearly allowing it to happen. Absolutely they are.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121700392#Comment_121700392

But thats not the point - its very difficult to police.

Really - to enforce properly you'd need a slo-mo camera.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701068#Comment_121701068

You dont. The strike on the ball must be a definite striking action. So must be clearly visible.

Enforce it. No need for cameras.

dxhound2005

The GAA have recognised that it can be difficult for referees to judge the difference between a legitimate hand pass and a throw. I fully agree with that. They are trialling a change to the rule.

https://www.gaa.ie/hurling/news/hurling-hand-pass-and-puck-out-rule-trials-set-to-begin

"It can be difficult for referees to ascertain whether a hand-pass has been executed correctly or thrown, and the idea behind the rule being trialled is that the striking action required to hand-pass the ball will be much clearer, with greater separation between hand and sliotar."

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121701068#Comment_121701068

Just allow them to throw it and the problem is solved. They're throwing it anyway and not being penalised for it.

evolvingtipperary101

Don't know if this is going to make an impact...

https://x.com/officialgaa/status/1754278667268833790?s=20

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121716208#Comment_121716208

I dunno, then you'd have lads flinging it over arm 50 / 60 yards

I'd say keep it as is and accept that its not perfect.

dxhound2005

Unless the delegates to Congress are tone deaf, they will approve the rule change.

75% of handpasses are fouls' - Barry Kelly urges Congress to consider fundamental rule change to hurling

https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121738748#Comment_121738748

‘Football is gone so possession based that people have switched off looking at games in droves’

Why when they are trying to make points about amending rules do they tell BS lies and guesses then? It’s annoying. They should be sticking to facts.

Realt Dearg Sec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739246#Comment_121739246

Has anyone done an article or anything on TV viewing figures/match attendance rates over the last few years. Wouldn't be too surprised if they have plummeted in the Leinster football championship for example, but that could be as much to do with how one-sided it is as the quality of the play. But if it's across the board, then they might want to think about what kind of spectacle they are putting out there. Not a football person at all to be fair, but I never turn on a football game until the later stages of the championship anymore, so many of the weaker teams play unwatchable defensive football (for good reasons I know, and they aren't in showbusiness, they're in the business of winning, but yeah, not something I'd want to watch)

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740349#Comment_121740349

I'd love to see come concrete stuff - but Club Finals got serious viewership:

https://roscommonherald.ie/sport/gaa/huge-numbers-tune-in-to-see-st-brigids-in-all-ireland-club-football-final_arid-8329.html

Viewers for 2022 All-Ireland final strong too. Rather than the number, it's the audience share that tells the story (75%), because viewing figures are down across the board on everything, including sport. That 75% TV audience share is an incredible number, especially given there'd have been RTE Player viewers too.

https://sportforbusiness.com/tv-figures-in-for-all-ireland-football-final/

The 2023 Football Final actually saw a viewership total and audience share increase on the 2022 number

https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/gaa/gaelic-football/rte-sees-over-one-million-30594949

For your Key Advertiser Demographic, it was an unreal share: '87% of adults aged 15 to 34 who were watching television at the time had RTÉ2's live coverage on.'

So in all of the above's sense, figures look really strong. Attendances are looking healthy too

dxhound2005

Wicklow football manager Oisín McConville has been handed a four-week suspension for verbal abuse of a referee.

The 2002 All-Ireland winner was found to have verbally abused referee Kieran Eannetta in last weekend's Allianz Football Division 3 defeat to Sligo.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2024/0208/1431295-mcconville-hit-with-four-week-ban-for-abuse-of-referee/

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121728000#Comment_121728000

The throw has become a real problem. And the obvious solution is to change the rule so that the hand that releases the ball cannot be the hand that strikes it. At the end of the day, it's called hurling, not throwball, anything that puts a focus on using the stick and fast hand movement instead of ignoring 50/60 indiscretions can only be good for the game.

One thing about that rule change too is that it would clear things up completely, there'd be no ambiguity regarding whether it was a pass or not. That means it would take a lot of pressure of of referees, and make things clearer for player/managers/commentators/fans as well.

And of course, as is often forgotten, it would be easy to implement at all levels. Far too often we look at what affects the inter-county game while ignoring 99% of matches are club and underage, and make things easier for refs there too.

PS - On hurling in general. No-one wants to see a sport where there's 100 frees a game, it's too stop/start as it is. But if you look at the sheer number of throws per game, the amount of time the steps rule is broke in playing the throwing game, the barging/charging that the throw facilitates, the pulling/dragging/spare arm wrapping that counts for a tackle to prevent a throw, and every side is at it. It's just the way the game is played now. But by playing that way, teams are arguably getting away with 50/60 indiscretions each a game.

I just think a rule change that prevents a throw would go a long way to not just remove the cancer of throwing completely but clean up a lot of the other side fouls that that way of playing promotes.

Because to be honest, any sport that requires a referee to ignore 100 fouls a game between both sides on top of the frees he does give, then that sport can't be in a healthy state.

zetecescort

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746348#Comment_121746348

And to think Cusack was ridiculed for raising similar points. the "let it flow" merchants have alot to answer for.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121746348#Comment_121746348

Its not obvious to me what you mean.

Player has a hurl in one hand, ball in the other hand.

Do they hold ball & hurl in one hand, throw the ball up and then pass with the other hand? I cant see how that works.

EDIT - from the Barry Kelly article:Under the proposed Nenagh Éire Óg motion, when hand-passing, players would have three options. They can strike the sliotar with a) the non-holding hand or b) with the original holding hand after bouncing the ball off the hurl, or c) with the original non-holding hand after bouncing the ball off the hurl.

dxhound2005

See also the link in post #1061.

kala85

That motion won't work in ruck and it will be very hard to move the ball on by swapping hands with a hurl.

or else let them drop the hurl to commit the handpass when required .

or just let them throw the ball. same rule for everyone.

Tombo2001

The only way I see it working is where you tap it off the hurl and then handpass. A bit laborious but at least there is a bit of skill to it unlike the current flinging it about. Might work. But to be honest if you have time to tap it and handpass it then you probably have time to hit it anyway....

So the amount of handpasses would drop a lot, which mightnt be a bad thing.

I found in underage it (the handpass) stopped the lads learning to hit the ball or solo - they'd get the ball and handpass to whoever was nearest them.

dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747312#Comment_121747312

I looked at a 122 page document with the rules of Hurling. I searched for "ruck" but that turned up 36 examples of "struck". So I don't think Ruck is in the rules. But it is common in online information, including training videos. Rucks might develop most often when a player is forced to release the ball when under close attention from the opposition. They have no room to make a handpass, and to hold the ball for too long is a foul. Ground hurling (a ruck) then ensues, and eventually some player is able to lift the ball with the hurley.

The same happens in football, when a player has no room to do a handpass or to kick the ball. He has to drop it to the ground, and a tussle for possession follows.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058313299/coaching-the-ruck-underage-hurling-u10-s

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747032#Comment_121747032

1) Tap the ball off the hurl and handpass with the same hand.

2) throw the ball in the air, grab the hurl with the releasing hand, and hand pass with the opposite hand

3) hand pass off the hurl

All are basic skills learned by the time you’re out of primary school.

You can also use the “Brick flick” or first time hand pass, or the good old stick pass.

Thats six different ways of passing the ball without resorting to an illegal throw, and all of them basic skills.

evolvingtipperary101

Skills are not an issue in the game. But when getting away with it becomes a skill that's a problem.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121747524#Comment_121747524

Are 1) and 3) not the same?

Again though - my guess is number of handpasses drops by 50% if this rule brought in.....

Does the GPA have a view on it incidentally?

randd1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752541#Comment_121752541

No, one and three are not the same. 1) The ball is in the hand, tapped into the air by the hurl, and then hand passed. 3) The ball is on the hurl, flicked up and hand passed.

I see nothing wrong with reducing the number of hand passes. It’s called hurling, not throwing, and anything that puts an emphasis on the use of the hurl can o ly be a benefit to the game.

GPA have been silent enough on the issue, a few token statements. They’re only bothered when there’s money involved.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121752541#Comment_121752541

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nDudBatOPvE

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