Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

bjsc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121906467#Comment_121906467

The pumping station seems to be a bit of a movable feast. There is a picture from a home video of Sophie walking down the track from the house with the pumping station behind her. Not sure when it was taken, the covering is intact but one block is missing from the front right. Fast forward to the murder, the covering is lifted and 2 blocks are missing from the front left - the corner nearest the field not nearest the roadway. But the original missing block is back in place. And it is apparent that there are brambles inside the pumping station so they may have been missing for some time.

chooseusername

Strange one all right! All I can think is the top row of blocks was re-laid sometime between the older video still and your crime scene photos. Perhaps when the gate was installed. The blocks appear to be newer. The original row seems to have been laid wrong, as it appears to match the row underneath, whereas in the later photo the vertical joints are staggered, as they should be. Brambles and especially ivy would easily find it's way into a structure like that ,and even a year would see a foot or more of them inside the shed.

Oscar_Madison

So this is interesting - a retired UK detective identifies the true killer years after his colleagues spend millions trying to pin it on a bunch of Turkish dudes.

While I’m not saying this is the case here, the relentless pursuit of Bailey without actually even achieving enough evidence for a prosecution no less a conviction, should be pause for thought. Considering it’s taxpayers money they’re spending I think the Gardai need to be held to account at this stage- just what investigations other than Bailey have they completed and just how deep did those investigations go?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13207141/emma-caldwell-solved-murder-retired-cop-Gerry-Gallacher-woman-dead-woods-police-killer-investigated.html

bjsc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908072#Comment_121908072

Also the case of Ricky Neave.

Day Lewin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908072#Comment_121908072

A fascinating read! We need him over here...

I note that one reason this detective didn't stay in touch with the police is that the leader of the Cold Case team had been on the original investigating team. Surely this is a bad idea, counter-productive? Could lead to same mistakes being made again?

The sticky-notes-on-the-wall method is almost a cliché of crime TV and whodunnits. I've heard that it is not how "real detectives" actually do their work. But it seems to have worked for this retired cop...anybody fancy giving it a try for the Sophie TduP case?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908072#Comment_121908072

But how long did the Gardai actually spend in this relentless pursuit ?

Bailey was arrested in 1997 and 1998 and that was that.

Any investigation after that were French until this cold case review.

You complain about the Gardai spending tax payers money going after Bailey.

Do you want them spending tax payers money going after complete dead ends as well ?

Or what are these other lines of enquiry they should be going down?

Day Lewin

Fr Tod - "other lines of inquiry" could include...

The car seen speeding out of the area in the early morning of the day that the body was found. Re-question this witness. Try to identify this car.

The person seen in her car with Sophie as she drove from Cork towards Schull. Closely question the man who reported this.

The person seen by Marie Farrell in Schull, and maybe also on the dark road -- if this was NOT Ian Bailey, then who was it? Has any other citizens of Schull seen a man matching this description, or know of him? Throw the net wider - he may have been staying in, eg, Bantry, Ballydehob, Skibbereen, or further afield.

The person WITH Marie Farrell as she drove around that night - has never been identified - why? What did HE see? Re-question him, if still alive. Get an accurate timeline for this series of events.

Plus, no doubt, others that we know not of because unpublished.

Enough to make a start with, I think!

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908408#Comment_121908408

You think none of these were investigated?

The speeding car, the driver may have come forward and gave a perfectly good explanation to the Gardai.

The shop assistant, that was investigated and I think it was determined that it was either not the same model of car as Sophie or that the dates were incorrect.

The person seen in Schull by Marie Farrell. The man who lived next door to her shop also gave evidence, the transcript of which was shared here a few weeks ago.

The person in the car with Farrell.

Are you serious?

The Gardai went to the ends of the earth trying to verify who that might have been.

So you've posted nothing new.

These lines of enquiry have been covered,

Day Lewin

I didn't say "not investigated"

I'm suggesting RE-investigation, or at least re-examining.

(Like in the Emma Caldwell case)

It's a cold case review, not a revision exercise.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908866#Comment_121908866

You're being pedantic now.

The greatest likelihood is that the Gardai are satisfied that the speeding car, the shop attendant, etc etc have nothing of value.

They probably determined this early on in the case and for very good reasons.

If there really was something else there don't you think someone in media or a journalist or something over 27 years would have gone down that route.

Solving something like this murder would sell a lot of books etc.

But the reason why we don't see anything of value is because there is nothing there.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908346#Comment_121908346

It’s very apparent by your posts to everyone on this thread that you’re only interested in seeing Bailey done for this crime, you don’t for a minute entertain the possibility that it may have been someone else - so be it but don’t expect to engage in conversation as a result - and don’t try to deny it - you are calling avenues of enquiry other than Bailey, “dead ends” - it’s that very thinking that made the above case I quoted unsolved for 20 years- ironically you’ve actually proved a valuable point here with your myopic approach to this case

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121908327#Comment_121908327

“Sticky notes” are very commonly used in problem solving in the corporate world - the visual allows you to “play” with ideas, see patterns and in this case solve a criminal puzzle - it’s not for everyone, it takes time but having used this technique for other things myself it does work if you use it properly. But it’s something you have to work at- this retired guy I have to take my hat off to him - he really played a blinder

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909195#Comment_121909195

I think it was you o asked a few days ago to elaborate on other possibilities and you shyed away from it, with some excuse that it wasn't your job to do so.

I'd entertain other possibilities if there was something to base them on better than what we have to base Bailey being main suspect on.

But no one has produced a single thing here or in the last 27 years that would promote anyone else to being a more likely suspect than Bailey.

So based on the complete lack of anything else I'll continue to regard Bailey as the main suspect.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909269#Comment_121909269

You shoot down any alternative suggestions made by any other poster as if you’ve personally investigated them yourself - so no, when you ask me to provide alternative suggestions, I won’t - but I have done for other people, as they’re not quite as dismissive as you are.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909287#Comment_121909287

Because the alternative suggestions are based on ideas in people's heads rather than facts.

People love to play internet detective, it's part of the current popularity of true crime content like podcasts etc.

People like to think they are smarter than seasoned investigators and they can find stuff that no one else saw or thought to look at.

People think that just because they don't know everything about something in the case then that something hasn't properly been investigated.

Let's take the "Alfie had a cut on his hand" situation.

That's all we know, a cut was observed on Alfie's hand and he claims he got it from a dog.

This has lead to people speculating that he got the cut while murdering Sophie and the Gardai didn't investigate it properly.

But maybe Alfie told the Gardai he got the cut from a dog and went to the doctor with it, and then the Gardai verified this with the doctor.

And that's the end of the cut on the hand being of value.

There is a shortage of evidence for other potential suspects, not because the Gardai didn't investigate it, but because it was never there in the first place.

Zola1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909195#Comment_121909195

Very well said. Fr Tod doesn't like having suitable answers to his questions addressed as in my case he's also avoiding. Yes everything he says is dead end and no other avenues but not in baileys case. He must have worked with AGS FrTod;)

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909329#Comment_121909329

There is a “shortage of evidence” for Bailey too, for the last 27 years- or haven’t you noticed? -but that doesn’t seem to stop you making him the one and only person to concentrate on at the expense of all others

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909269#Comment_121909269

We are aware of the evidence against Bailey as it was addressed by the DPP's office when it rubbished all of it. So we can safely assume that there is nothing else to point towards Bailey (as it would have been put forwards by now as key to a case against him). In two and a half decades if relentlessly trying to get him for the crime, AGS have absolutely nothing on him.

Now there is no indication that other suspects were pursued as relentlessly or had the same level of investigation into them as Bailey had. Within a short period of time, AGS were able to disregard all of their suspects yet despite having nothing on Bailey managed to convince themselves that he was their killer. Over time, after he was their main suspect, then they managed to get him to amend his alibi but before that point they had nothing - no dna, no hairs, no fibres, just a theory that he staggerednover whilst drunk in order to have sex and a few scratches which nobody in AGS felt warranted a few photos 🙄 If you saw a movie with that as the plot line, you wouldn't believe it!

Given the dearth of evidence, why are AGS so sure it was Bailey? Given the dearth of evidence, why disregard all other suspects?

As for your comment that there is nothing else so it must have been Bailey - can you really not remove the blinkers and consider this case with an open mind? Do you seriously think that the investigation was quite thorough and has shown us the real killer or is there a possibility that the real killer wasn't investigated (for whatever reason) and as the evidence suggests wasnt the big loudmouth eejit?

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909350#Comment_121909350

We are aware of the evidence against Bailey as it was addressed by the DPP's office when it rubbished all of it.

Straight in with the DPP line again, like you never even read the multiple times I made it clear that I agree there is not enough against Bailey for a charge.

I think I even quoted one of your "But what about the DPP" posts telling you that not too long ago.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909348#Comment_121909348

There is more evidence against Bailey than anyone else.

Oscar_Madison

I think I’ll just ignore the idiot posters who pedal the “only Bailey” line from here on- I’m just going to quote this post back to them if they engage with me in future - a complete waste of time and an insult to intelligence. They’re not worth the effort.

Zola1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909370#Comment_121909370

This is really funny comment...ah yes very well said there is more evidence against bailey than anyone else. You can get it in the AGS files and all newspapers and on internet and..well anywhere i guess. Yes there is no other evidence.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909394#Comment_121909394

So what other evidence, or even facts are there against other people that point to them as being a stranger suspect than Bailey?

Zola1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909401#Comment_121909401

Actually I have no idea. The only evidence as you say is with bailey. I'm not going read anything else. There is more evidence as you say against bailey. That's it's , it's conclusive. We only need DNA to place him at scene. We only need reason of motive of why he would have done it..even though he may never have met her or knew her. IB was very very drunk..so doesn't remember the night in question , and he was fully sure he left no DNA so he has volunteered all to help. Yes he knows he was risk but said he would help anyways. Yes there is lots of evidence here..we are very close to prosecution?

What were Alphies injuries.

Was the driver or owner of speeding car ever questioned

Did Daniel DP have any enemies.

Was the french citizens living in area all questioned? What was the outcomes..some were in the drugs trade..we're they on run..did they owe money anyone.. we're they investigated in that way..background history past etc.

Landowners around Sophie's house .what was disputes..they were never explained..or were they ..explain all above..I haven't read anything on it.. have you...

Was there issues in Sophie's life..we don't know...it needs to be known..

FishOnABike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909329#Comment_121909329

Was the cut from a dog or an old skating accident? We now have Alfie possibly lying about how he cut his hand. Should he now become the prime suspect?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909368#Comment_121909368

So no evidence of any value against him but you still believe it is enough to believe he is responsible 🙄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909370#Comment_121909370

There is no evidence against him. There are threads as one garda described it and these go nowhere.

Why was Bailey considered a suspect with pretty much nothing against him yet others discounted without the same level of effort invested into them?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909329#Comment_121909329

You simply don't know that the evidence was never there in the first place. It is impossible for you to know that yet you declare it as a statement of fact. You already undercut your argument by saying "maybe" in relation to Alfie.

If the Guards didn't properly investigate the morning scenario for the murder, how do you know there was no evidence to be found?

These are the same seasoned investigators who tried to pass off Marie Farrell as a credible witness?

Who engaged in unsafe conduct with Bill Fuller and Martin Graham?

The same seasoned investigators who "lost" multiple pieces of evidence?

The same seasoned investigators who tampered with the Jobs Book and destroyed the record of how Bailey came to identified as the prime suspect?

The same seasoned investigators the French put back in their box fairly quickly when they tried to follow-up French angles?

The only question is how much of these Garda shenanigans are down to incompetence, malfeasance or corruption. At least one of them should have faced charges.

One of them lied with a smirk on his face about Bailey's coat, when the truth was they got Bailey's coat and "lost" it. That's your "seasoned investigators" is it? Seasoned in spouting BS, that's for sure.

They don't get the benefit of the doubt that all avenues of investigation were properly explored.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909401#Comment_121909401

That was my point - it appears that while AGS were able to consider Bailey as a key suspect early on despite at that point having nothing, other suspects weren't given the same level of scrutiny. It is therefore no surprise that we've nothing on them.

Oscar_Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909490#Comment_121909490

And for many of those suspects it’s now way too late - they’re dead .

bjsc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121909329#Comment_121909329

Alfie actually told the Guards that it was an old skating injury which flared up in cold weather.