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Charging Etiquette Question

  • 25-06-2022 4:53pm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭

    OK long story so bear with me. And I am genuinely looking for opinion on this.

    I was traveling to Belfast and back today, no turn around time. Have about 380km range in my EV and it charges very fast. Usually this run which I have done many times goes...Dublin to Belfast arrive at 49% and then travel back with a short stop at Ionity Kill West. I arrive at that Ionity with about 7-10% charge for 10 minutes to get me home and plug in.

    Today I made a mistake with the kids nagging me in the car and missed a turning. Car decides to reroute me all over the shop and now when I sort it out I cannot get to the Ionity. Car showing -6% arriving at the Ionity. So I stop at a poxy ESB 50Kw just to top myself to get to the Ionity. Car says I need 7 minutes at 50Kw to get there.

    Arrive at the ESB charger and there is one Tesla model 3 and some other EV like a Peugeot SUV thing. The charger has a Chadeom, a CCS and a AC type 2 plug. Tesla man is finished and the other couple are waiting. I ask how long and they say an hour. I ask if I can do 7 minutes real quick and piss off and they say no. I say I have kids in the car and I may have to murder them if I have to listen to them much longer... they have been waiting ages and are unwilling. They then proceed to spend 10 minutes trying to register and account and get the charger working, which Tesla man helps them with and I am sitting waiting. I eventually plug into the AC beside them once the Tesla is gone, and have to wait 5 times longer to get enough charge (25 minutes instead of 5-7 on the CCS to get my few percent I needed). Got to ionity (15 minute tailback at the toll had me twitching) with 2%.

    No I assume they were noobs and they seemed very stressed. I dont know if pulling 22kws from the AC dropped their DC charging rate, but I would assume it did, so likely they waited longer to get their charge than they would have if they let me in front, as I sat there for far longer. Seems like common decency like in the supermarket letting somebody with 1 item ahead when your doing a big shop.

    So I felt they were a bit rude but that doesn't really fuss me. But question is

    1. Was I correct to ask?
    2. Were they right to refuse?
    3. Whats the correct Etiquette for this?



  • Registered Users Posts: 27,959 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm

    1. No harm in asking.

    2. Of course they can refuse.

    3. Leave the kids at home and have a peaceful drive the next time.

    Really for 3 though - if it was me I would have let you charge ahead of me.

    The biggest issue though is the fact that they didn't have an account set and then spent 10 minutes actually getting that working to start charging. You could have charged and gone by the time they finished farting about and that's just bad manners as far as I'm concerned.

    Expect a lot more of that though with more and more new EV drivers coming on board.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Fitz II

    "Leave the kids at home and have a peaceful drive the next time". - Amen brother, but was not an option today. Listened to Moana, Encanto and Frozen all the way there and all the way back....head melted.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21

    Its like being at the airport and people haven’t their shiit in order. As other poster said it’s only to get worse.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,346 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52

    There is no etiquette, just dog eat dog, 11 hours at a 22 kW for a plug in hybrid

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,895 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB

    Why I don’t drive an electric car

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  • Registered Users Posts: 27,959 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm

    What do you drive Seve? It'd want to be something really special to make me pick it over Fitz yoke.

  • Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭HorseSea

    Why I don't drive an electric car - I second that.

    No harm in asking, but no reason for them to let you jump the queue. They are not responsible for your kids, you missed turning or bad planning.

    You must have some sort of self entitlement to even think it's worth posting the question here. I bet you would have had an excuse to say no if the shoe was on the other foot.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,818 ✭✭✭Grumpypants

    It's a bit like doing the shopping. If I'm loading a trolly onto the belt I'll let the lady with a pound of butter go ahead.

    Same here, if I had to set up the app I'd have let you plug in and maybe even picked your brain on the set up while waiting.

    To keep the checkout analogy going, we likely need to have two chargers. A full charge where you plug in and charge for 40 mins to an hour.

    And a second set, the ten items or less type, to dip in and grab 10-15 mins to get you a top up to make it home.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Fitz II

    Jesus...trolls our out for blood. No entire interaction was polite, and I of course realise that it was my mistake. But if they like the trolls here has listened they would have realised letting me go first would have been faster for them and me. If wanting everyone to win is being entitled then I suppose I am. Mearly looking for others informed opinions on the group consensus for this sort of thing.

    I have done this trip many many times so no bad planning just bad luck cost me a little time nothing else. I would agree thought if you are on the road a lot doing a lot of long trips with short turnarounds a ev is not great with the current charging infrastructure. EVs are still a bit complex for some to get the hang of.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21

    It’s one for Joe on Monday. It could be a climax.

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]

    This puts me right off switching to an EV.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,477 ✭✭✭eagerv

    I would have let you go ahead Fitz II

    (providing of course you let me have a peep...) 😁

    Seriously though with driving EVs the length of breath of the country for more than 2 years I have as yet had to wait anywhere. Perhaps I have just been lucky, but I often use destination charging (Hotels etc) on my longer trips and Ionity/SUC otherwise.

  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy

    I’m going to say that you are the problem here. But mean but I’ll explain why,

    you knew you needed a fast charger and had kids in the car. Why didn’t you stop in Drogheda, Blanch, Swords, etc. you had loads of options on the way to Kill. Once you hit 30% you should have been looking for a charger imho. I doubt all were occupied.

    remember ex civil servants and civil servants are in charge of the charging network. So on the rare occasion you get incompetence, which for them is the best working day of their lives. The rest is worse than incompetence. So you need to play that in. There should be 10 chargers there but as I said look above as to why there is not,

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Fitz II

    Re-read my post please...... did this trip many times before no problem, was not short of charge but couldn't get to my preferred charger I wanted due to missing a turn. I pulled up to top up with well over 30% as I was planning ahead. I was approaching kill form Belfast.

    I only mention the kids as a ligh hearted comment and make a self deprecating excuse, they are not that fat so don't effect the range much (again light hearted before anyone calls me for body shaming or tells me that puts them off having kids)

    My questions are not about the charging infrastructure or anyone elses opinion in EVs in general. It's as the title of this thread what is the etiquette of letting somebody else in front of you at a charger given the reasons to do it outlined in detail above, or is it simply not done?

    Post edited by Fitz II on

  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭ddarcy

    Put yourself in the car that was waiting for over an hour for the Tesla. Are you really going to be 10 minutes or will you be there an hour too? I know you say otherwise, but once your plugged in we’re at your mercy.

    ideally charger numbers go up so this isn’t a problem (why they don’t have a minimum of 10 is beyond me), but as I’ve said once you hit 30pct you really need to start looking for the next available one. Plan for worst hope for the best.

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,959 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm

    They said they'd be an hour charging not that they were waiting an hour to get a charge.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Fitz II

    If I were in the car waiting and some chap came up and said he needed 7 minutes on the CCS when I needed an hour, or leave him take 25 minutes on the AC...I would have let him go and tapped on the window and my watch after 7 minutes if he was still there, because I am a straightforward kind of person and understand Ev's. Its a simple calculus, if I spend 25 minutes halving their charging rate (10.4 Kw into their car) it works out worse for them in time, than if I spend 7 minutes at full speed (5.8 kw to me) and they spend 18 minutes at full speed (15kw into their car). Assuming that they can draw full speed (and if they can not then get off the CCS plug). But again as somebody that fast charges only occasionaly I am looking for the word from the road warriors on here that do it all the time to see is there some unwritten line I was asking them to cross.

    As I said this was the charger I was stopped at that was the the next available one as I was just over 30%, But that rule though is super stupid mind you and really doesn't let you get the best from your EV and your time, as the charging curve on my car allows me to pull 260kw out of an ionity if I get there hot at about 10% ....all the way up to to get me home with safe margin its a single 10 minutes charge at ionity. for a Belfast and back trip thats not bad at all, faster than ICE refueling. Car also know if the ionity is working in real time so its super reliable. Sure I made a mistake and that is the EV equivalent of walking down the motorway with a petrol can in hand, we have all been there.

  • Registered Users Posts: 12,111 ✭✭✭✭KCross

    I think all the answers you are looking for are already in your own posts actually...

    The biggest one is this...

    they have been waiting ages and are unwilling.

    They were already in bad humour before you asked them to move aside by the sounds of it.

    You said

    letting me go first would have been faster for them and me.

    Thats debatable (it depends on the charger) but in any case I think you are giving them too much credit in terms of their knowledge or being able to determine that. As you said above, you might have said "I only need 7mins" but they were already waiting ages so another 7mins (according to the stranger!) was just a bridge too far for them at that stage and would probably be more like 10-15mins while you do the car swaps and get your session going and then they have to swap again when you finish and figure out the whole charging app thing at that point which they were already struggling with.... and you did say..

    .... they were noobs and they seemed very stressed.

    I can understand why they refused... they wanted to get going themselves and were stressed.

    I suspect if you caught the same people on another day where they knew what they were at and weren't under pressure they might be more obliging but ultimately to answer your question.... there is no charger etiquette... first come, first served. Thats all there is, but no issue with asking but equally no issue with refusing the request either. Those 7mins might mean more to them than you... you don't really know anyone else's circumstances.

  • Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Fitz II

    Indeed....good answer. I can see that now you type it. Logic probably was not foremost on their minds.

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,477 ✭✭✭eagerv

    I did read your post and I think I said (perhaps jokingly) that I would have no problem letting you or anyone else who was in a hurry, from charging ahead of me.

    Has never happened as yet, but 10 mins or so is very little time for me. Thankfully I am never in that much of a rush, usually I don't have time when charging to have the coffee and make a few calls..

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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,538 ✭✭✭Fitz II

    Sry wrong quote, new boards still confuses me on a phone. Fixed now

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,229 ✭✭✭DaveyDave

    I don't see how OP is the issue here. Things didn't go to plan and they needed a quick top up, but the world is full of selfish pricks or people who just don't want to help someone else. There's no entitlement, it would just make sense to let someone charge for 5-10 minutes if they really needed it. It's a bit of courtesy.

    Seven bloody minutes...

    This is going to be the future of charging. If I was waiting my turn and someone came in looking for 5-10 minutes charge I wouldn't mind. If I'm charging in public I'm likely not going anywhere anytime soon anyway, getting food/coffee or just stretching the legs.

  • Registered Users Posts: 11,112 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin

    I've been in your position before @Fitz II, two kids in the car, needing only 10 mins on a charger and arriving to find an E-tron and an I-Pace sitting there

    They didn't let me skip ahead but I guess the I-Pace didn't hang around too long, got what he needed and left

    Thankfully it hasn't happened since, having a car with loads more range gives you plenty of options

    I don't think there's a right answer here. If I was ahead of you I might let you skip me, I might not, depends on how much of a rush I'm in at the time

    I think you were inviting a bit of trouble leaving the car until the last possible charge. It works when everything goes right, but as you've seen it can go wrong quite easily

    Personally I would check Ionity City North on the way and if it's free maybe grab a charge there. You'll pay a time penalty because your SoC will be high, but it's probably only a few mins and it might save you half an hour later on

    Hopefully the hub at Clonsaugh will be built soon, that'll be better placed for your journey home

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭KaneToad

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,458 ✭✭✭✭ted1

    A 50kw charger for 7 minutes

    or a 22kw for 32 minutes.

    the numbers font add up. Unless unit car can’t pull 22, if not then it wouldn’t affect their charge much

  • Registered Users Posts: 15,895 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,552 ✭✭✭obi604

    Pardon my ignorance here as I rarely use public charging. Let’s take an esb charging station as below…….if somebody is already charging with the Combo CCS and someone else arrives and wants to use the Chademo - can both charge at the same time at 50kW?

  • Registered Users Posts: 27,959 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm

    I'd definitely take a Taycan over that. Plenty of space for the golf clubs though Seve 😁

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,261 ✭✭✭Gant21

    Value of car will have to dictate priority also. If I turn up in my new battery car and Johnny is there with his 171 leaf then he needs to disconnect and leave me with my new car charge.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,895 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB

    Jesus… “trolls out for blood” really?

    i suppose my comment was one of them trolls?

    anyway, my tupence worth, I think you were cheeky asking, but nothing ventured nothing gained and no harm in asking and they were well within their rights to say no.

    but it looks like you are coming on here to try and justify that you were right in asking and they were wrong In denying.