Right to a house?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303020#Comment_119303020

In the last five years according to the RTB there is 17k less tenancies. That is an astounding figure. When you consider that REITS have probably placed 5k plus properties into the rental market.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119302987#Comment_119302987

...i.e. the buildings arent the problem, but the lack of supports are.....

...so only certainly types of people can live in certain areas, what happens if your situation changes, leading you into a situation of long term unemployment, along side complex psychological issues etc , should you be forced to move elsewhere?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303020#Comment_119303020

...they have clearly accelerated the problem, the overall goal hasnt actually been towards individual home ownership, but to encourage and facilitate monopolisation of our property markets, and its working!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303107#Comment_119303107

...again, the overall goal has been to cause monopolisation of our property markets, and again, its working!

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303144#Comment_119303144

Since 2016 over 20k landlords have left

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303213#Comment_119303213

jesus thats a shocking stat!

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303168#Comment_119303168

Nah I'm not saying only certain types of people can live in a certain area, or that someone should be banished the moment they lose their job.

I'm saying there's no particular reason that the unemployable *have to* be concentrated in Dublin 1 and 2 in huge numbers, while workers go back and forth from outlying satellite towns, as a matter of deliberate planning insofar as it is allocated.

What is the justification for it?

Work is the reason large numbers of people migrated to cities (during the industrial revolution) in the first place.

P.S. can you go easy on the ellipses, thanks

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303168#Comment_119303168

Communism was tried, and failed, with tragic consequences. The State alone can not be relied on to provide sufficient housing to meet society’s needs. If you want/need the private sector to build housing, then you have to accept that there must be an expectation of profit. Airy fairy policies and wishes don’t solve problems.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303263#Comment_119303263

we need to be careful in our classifications, unemployment is astonishingly complex by nature, it has a tendency to congregate, for all sorts of complex reasons, we must ask ourselves, why certain areas are more prone to it than others, and more importantly, wtf to do about it, not easy questions, even for more complex answers....

...but i like ellipses....

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303213#Comment_119303213

I say that is 20 k tenancies gone out of the system. When you do the calculation as rental have higher occupation rates there is probably nearly 80-100 k less rental places less than then.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303266#Comment_119303266

hahaha, communism, jesus come on lads, seriously grow up! who the fcuk is talking about such an ideology, imho, capitalism is the solution to capitalisms problems, seriously grow up lads, cause this is seriously childish stuff now!

yes, i completely agree, we must somehow create the abilities of both the state and the market, to provide us with our needs, as the 'extreme' of both have failed, and will continue to fail to do so!

yes the private sector entities must make profits, but again, there is a big difference between profits and PROFITS!

airy fairly polices such as excess profits dont solve problems!

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303107#Comment_119303107

And yet I left the country because of landlords. I was stuck in that **** apartment. I kept asking for repairs and nothing was done. I was certain they were going to raise the rent again. I mailed the RTB and got no reply. So when I was offered a job abroad, I jumped at it.

BTW, that same landlord said they'd change the utilities to their name. they haven't. So I was still getting charged for them and I couldn't cancel them abroad without a meter reading. They never returned the deposit either. And I know there was no mortgage on it so every penny went to them.

Tenants need security. It's too easy for landlords to abuse them. They need stability too. I'm all for a system whereby tenants have a permanent record and landlords can filter out bad tenants. Even have larger deposits. Companies will develop that will give the tenant the deposit for a fee. Even change the law so it's easier to get insurance and bank repayments stop when restoration work is being done.

But property shouldn't be treated as a get rich scheme. The tenants need to know they won't be kicked out because the landlord wants to sell or because they want to move in. Rents should not be increased because the landlord feels he can get more. And if a landlord mistreats their tenants, then they should be fined. I'd even say that they should have to apply for a license to rent and if they're really bad, that's revoked and they aren't allowed to rent property and should be forced to sell the property. We close down restaurants for being unhealthy, and we'd refuse permission for someone to operate one if they have a track record of violations. Why not do the same with landlords.

And if it puts off some investors, that's fine. We don't want people who are looking to squeeze tenants to be landlords. If there's security in it for the landlord, other people will become landlords.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303361#Comment_119303361

yup, our current approaches are clearly undermining the whole market, placing both landlords and tenents in a precarious situation, the whole thing is failing....

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303375#Comment_119303375

I feel safe renting here in Germany. It's been a long time since I felt safe renting in Ireland. And it's a constant worry there. Always nagging you. Wondering if this month they'll decide to up the rent or tell you you have to leave because they want their kids to live there. Scared to push for repairs incase they decide to punish you with rent increases. Especially over the last few years. I would have had to move home with my 80 year old mum. It's just impossible to find anywhere and if you do find somewhere it'll cost a fortune.

When my last landlord upped the rent by 60% I decided to demand repairs and new heating as part of the agreement. they agreed, never did the repairs and after two years replaced the storage heaters. The original storage heaters were so old that my winter heating bill was 600 euro every two months. And it was a tiny two roomed apartment.

Here, I live in a thriving city. I have loads of space in the apartment. I had to furnish it myself, but if I look at it over a period of a few years, it's still cheaper than renting in Ireland.

Dusseldorf is considered expensive by german standards. people here complain about the rents. They wonder why I'm spending so much on a big city centre apartment. I explain that it's the same price as an apartment 1/4th - 1/3rd the size, located about 30km from Dublin and they're shocked. Then I tell them that I'd be paying thousands for an apt the same size within walking distance of Dublin city centre.

For some reason Irish people have gotten used to it. I wonder how many TD's are landlords.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303144#Comment_119303144

Thanks for reply but i really do not understand i am just an interested observer concerned for our young people.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303472#Comment_119303472

yea, some landlords are a complete nightmare, but it really is important to realise, they to are also experiencing rising precariousness, the whole thing is a mess, and for virtually everyone.

ive family living in germany, it certainly sounds like they have a far better approach to property there, far less bullsh1t, but im sure they still have their issues also

i dont know td landlord numbers, but the issue is far greater than that, even though there are conflicts of interest involved

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303361#Comment_119303361

I suspect most LLs would welcome a larger deposit (Government banned that) , there can’t be a database (GDPR) and an RTB judgement for lost rent is worth less the the oxygen used to say the words.

So, you want more protection for tenants, while protections here are non existent for LL? One of the best ways to alleviate the housing crises would be for those who are unable to get a rental, or unhappy with the system to follow your example.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303871#Comment_119303871

...its clearly obvious, state protections must be implemented for both parties, in order to protect both, but we re currently doing the opposite, its a mess

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303361#Comment_119303361

The problem is the present RTB process is not fit for purpose. I know a LL trying to sort a registeration at present that has contact them 2-3 times by email and has not been contacted back.

They are charging yearly now for registering tenancies and you cannot contact them.

The problem with limiting smaller LL rights is that many will quit the market as is happening. Deciding that they cannot get possession of there property after giving statutory notice periods will mean that you take many possibe properties out of the rental market.

At present it takes a LL the bones of 12 month to get possession of a tenant decides to overhold and or stop paying rent.

From your post you consider that a house owner who is not using a house for 1-2 years should have no right of return of there property. Neither should a LL have a right to get there property returned in the case of sale or needing a house for there children. As well in the case where rental return is below market norms investors have no interest in buying such properties.

While Dusseldorf may be ok rental wise at present there is huge issues in Berlin where the population want the city council to CPO large swathes of the corporate rental properties as rents have escalated in the last couple of years.

What happened to you was wrong but that is what the RTB is there for to force the resolving of that issue. I get the impression that you are gone from Ireland 2-3 years. In the last three years the balance has changed to a significant extent

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303939#Comment_119303939

yea its really messy stuff, its a situation where everyone is losing....

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303871#Comment_119303871

I'm in germany. If GDPR were an issue then they wouldn't be doing it. It's essentially a credit check that you have to provide the landlord when you apply to rent. You can even apply for it through the local equivalent of daft and store it there, so when you contact the landlord it goes through to them directly.

And you think that everyone who can't get a place or has a **** landlord should just leave the country? You think an entire generation who are living at home should just up and leave? jesus.....

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304414#Comment_119304414

Of course not, but whining constantly about the unfairness of not being able to afford to buy a house where you want, or rent at an affordable price isn’t going to help you achieve either. Generations before you had to move to lower cost areas or emigrate if they couldn’t afford to live where they wanted, why should this one expect to be different?

I relation to GDPR, I would love to be able to look up the personal data of anyone applying to be a tenant, can they afford it, credit scoring, have they missed rent payments, have they convictions etc, if you can arrange that personal data to be available, you will be a hero to many. But the Data Protection Commisioner here has already stated that LLs can’t look for that type of data from applicants.

https://www.dataprotection.ie/sites/default/files/uploads/2019-07/190710%20Requesting%20Personal%20Data%20from%20Prospective%20Tenants.pdf

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119302678#Comment_119302678

You definitely don't know much about the development and the history of Ballymun Towers. The building was award winning internationally and very modern when built. It had underfloor heating to give an example of how well it was designed. The apartments were huge and very nice. I doubt you were ever inside or even that close to them.

Mistakes were made one being that building regulations meant it till had to have a certain amount of open space defeating the purpose of building up. The tenants were initially happy there but then they discovered they could complain and get a house instead which was what many would have preferred as they were familiar with it. So the families all moved out and refused places in the towers if offered. So they kept going down the list of who needed housing. So the Towers were filled with mostly single men with addiction issues. The buildings was less than half occupied to the capacity they were designed for. It was no cheaper to maintain but as they calculated costs by number of residents it was expensive to maintain on that ratio so they didn't maintain it. It just kept deteriorating.

It was mismanagement by the council entirely but the fault was not being high rise. If had been a private building it would be very desirable now.

Grayson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119303939#Comment_119303939

I left last September. I was headhunted by a large German firm because I work in a niche area of tech. I'm highly skilled with multiple letters after my name. In short I'm the type of person people want to move to their country.

And I'm fine with small Landlords quitting the market so long as the market is well regulated. And no, you don't see any other type of lease where someone can ask for it back because they decided they want it themselves. Can you imagine a car company taking a car back because they want it for the owners kids? A hotel that kicks out a guest that's paid up because they want to let their son stay there?

Once rented a tenant should be allowed stay as long as they're paying rent. If a landlord decides that they don't like that, don't rent. I'm sure plenty of other people would be fine with it.

And berlin rents are still amazing compared to Ireland. https://www.studying-in-germany.org/cost-of-living-in-germany/

The Irish rental system is broken. Yes, there needs to be more assurances to landlords in the case of non paying tenants. But tenants who do pay need far, far more security and stability.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304465#Comment_119304465

In all honesty a lot of previous generations here were too willing to be pissed on and do nothing but take the easy option of the boat.

Taking the boat nearly brought the State to collapse and we are still living with the damage done.

It's not a solution, only avoiding the problem and pretending it is getting on with it.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304497#Comment_119304497

But if you can’t afford a house here, what do you expect to happen? This is not new, some practicality needs to be applied. Stomping your feet and crying “poor me” will get you no where.

The “great hope” SF’s Pearce Doherty was on Ireland AM this morning, TBF to the presenters they put it to him where he would get the money for their promises, his answer? Raise taxes, especially for those earning over €100k. Thing is, to buy a house in Dublin you now need to earn over €100k, probably substantially so if you are paying rent while saving. So that will go down well.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304482#Comment_119304482

There are historic reasons for Germany's rental market which I am glad to say we didn't have. WWII and the Spanish flu killed off a huge portion of their population along with the destruction of huge amounts of property and cities. As WWI treatment of Germany was the cause of WWII international money was pumped into West Germany while East Germany was communist and pumped money there too.

So they had tons of money, tons of space and had to house people. Due to these factors they were able to set up an entire rental market that never existed and set rules easily. They basically just took land off people if they wanted it and built with effectively free money.

So for us to have the same rental market as Germany is impossible here. Current laws wouldn't allow it. They also have much stricter tenant rules which also reduces the risk and cost that are here. Similar rules here would reduce rent but Ireland has a historical chip on the shoulder about evictions and evil landlords so very unpopular to have tenants with what some would see as less rights.

Rent is cheap in Germany because as a country they killed so many of it's own people directly and indirectly.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304504#Comment_119304504

All a three card trick to deceive the younger electorate and help them get into power.

At which point, the main agenda will take over - that wee thing that drives SF, a United Ireland and all means will justify the end in their view.

Housing? Ah sure, you'll be grand - think of Pearse and what he died for.. blah blah.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304482#Comment_119304482

Long term leasing was not ever pushed in Ireland. Tenants were not willing to commit to it( they envisioned that they would only rent for 2-3 years), therefore LL never supplied it.

It's not in LL's interest to rent short term. I be very happy to rent a house long-term for 70-80% of present rental costs ( two bed houses one in a small town the other a farmhouse) provided I did not supply furnished and tenant returned in a similar state to what they and carried out basic maintenance ( cleaned chimneys, serviced boilers, repaired any damage etc). I should not need to supply whit goods etc.

Rental on these is 8-9k/ year. Five year lease and next time I get a call it's either to extend by another five years or to collect the keys to my repainted property.

But instead I need to provide a certain level of service that costs me a couple K every year.

It's apples and oranges

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304685#Comment_119304685

🤪.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119304497#Comment_119304497

..its all bullsh1t, its any easy way to project onto younger generations, the failures of older generations, in regards the mess we ve made of our property markets, its got nothing to do with their failures, but in fact our failures in attempting to better their opportunities in life, i.e. its our fault theyre fcuked!

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119305029#Comment_119305029

I agree with you as we have alot of incompetent people in charge, decision makers who make decisions for the people and instead its self interest. Look at the boys in Kerry are a perfect example of lookinhg after me.

At the end of the day it's good enough for us.