56% of South Dublin Social housing in arrears

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119209947#Comment_119209947

Yeah, it's offered to a bunch of cohorts. The following points are true though, stats and links have been posted plenty of times: The majority of people in social housing also receive income from the state. The majority of tenants in social housing are behind on their token rent.

Rents are based on incomes and are a relative pittance. Getting a place for 10-20% of market rents and still not paying it deserves at the very least scorn from people who are capable of somewhat functioning in society. When it's a majority of people then yeah, it kinda gets to the point that you can start generalising a little bit. Is anyone giving out about the 75 year old in a wee bungalow for 20 quid a week? Absolutely not. And I'd wager the pensioners will have a few higher rate of successful payments than the people who know how to play the game.

And it's not just council housing either, there seems to be a real failure or unwillingness to accept that the state has fucked the whole thing up. Council housing is a joke. I've a huge family and not all very savoury. They know what they're at. I'm talking dozens of people who've never worked and never will. Their parents the same. Their kids in their 20s and 30s the same. I've seen the off-book handouts given to people, but unless it's in legislation it doesn't happen or exist. 😂 Aside from council housing you have the HAP which has doubled rents instantly by setting a ludicrously high floor on rents. That'd be bad enough but there was also a "discretionary" top-up which the majority of people in my county also get. And now they're raising that by another 30% I think it was.

The cheapest 3 bedroom place in my county right now is €1500 a month. The only people affording that are very well-paid, have both adults working or, in the majority of successful cases will be subsidised by the government. Which means you have to be even better off again to afford a roof over your head. What's the answer? KEEP PUMPING IT!! Friend of a friend got a place on HAP (again, never worked, never will, father of the kid was under investigation for stuff that really should prevent him being around any child), less than a year old. Fully furnished. Down the Dispensary or whatever local term you know it by and got €10k to furnish the place. Sofas, beds, appliances all less than a year old thrown into a skip and brand new everything dropped around. And she still complains about the 30 quid a week they're expected to hand up in rent. My mother had a bit of a falling out with a family member a while back who was complaining that her daughter got a place on HAP (has a kid herself but usually doesn't have custody) and was only given €6k to furnish it.

These people along with the dealers and the very obviously on a ****-ton more money than what they're declaring are the ones people are giving out about. The overall set-up is the politicans' fault and the massive inflation of the rental market is a direct side-effect of the government just not bothering to try to think of anything else. And yes, it's **** galling for people paying hundreds a week to find out that the majority of people paying token rents can't be bothered and will face no consequences and have complete security of tender and we get told are the most vulnerable in society. Please.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210081#Comment_119210081

Hmmmm, I suppose your proving my point, but security of Tenure 🤔 perhaps you can explain that to the 100"s of people facing evictions monthly and for reasons that have nothing to do with Rent Arrears.

No doubting Government housing policy over many years is a shambles but what exactly are the solutions. Shut down social housing, stop HAP payments, perhaps create industrial size Tent Cities.

I don't pretend to know what the solutions are but I do know that aside from a very small cohort of individuals who deliberately avoid paying rent, there's numerous factors at play that may affects thousands of households ability to pay or cover rents, mortgages fully and its not new a new phenomenon.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210168#Comment_119210168

Jesus, talk about missing the point. People privately renting face eviction, that's the whole point! Council tenants don't have that issue. The council won't be selling the house out from under them. Unlike our glorious president who only too happily took advantage of a tax break to sell a house and remove tenants. Well within his rights but yeah, when the loudest voices are doing the things they're giving out about, well, they can go and **** themselves.

So not only do they get a place at a token rent they also have security of tenancy that people renting privately can only dream of.

There's no palatable solution because we have **** pathetic politicians. Introducing HAP in the first place was always going to end in disaster because once something's given it takes a **** long time to try to take it back. Increasing spending on the other hand it turns out is really easy even without legislation whenever they can be bothered. State intervention can be useful and I'm no libertarian but because politicians are pathetic and people are stupid we're heading close to double-digit inflation with interest rates still at historic lows and the state is increasing spending across the board. Until we're willing to make people take some responsibility for themselves there'll be no solution.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210168#Comment_119210168

Social housing is a scarce resource and is an enormous privilege. If someone is unwilling to pay the rent, they should be evicted and moved onto the HAP system (with all the additional headache that comes with that). If someone ends up in massive arrears (20k WTF!) and they are receiving social welfare, it is likely that a judge would grant 5 euro a week from social welfare (similar to the cases where an amount is owed to private landlords). Basically, there are no consequences that will force people to change behavior if eviction is not on the cards.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210275#Comment_119210275

Did you actually read the original article, Council taking legal action 🤔

You claimed right of Tenancy when no such thing exists in SH 🤔

Not Aware of our Glorious presidents tax affairs, are you annoyed about his recent comments, which by all accounts we're praised, apart from the government of course who should be rightly ashamed of themselves.

I'm not a fan of Michael D incidently.

Dempo1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210293#Comment_119210293

And I whole heartily agree and have pointed out I've little time for the small percentage of those who avoid or pay rent in SH, it's actually OUTRAGEOUS.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210329#Comment_119210329

I think the main difference in opinion is that you think the majority of the 56% are in arrears for legitimate reasons. Generally, those on the left assume the best in everyone, that everyone is following the rules as best they can etc. It is a Utopian view. Have you lived in any of these social housing estates?

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205284#Comment_119205284

Nail on head and also why local authorities run shy now of great building programmes for social housing. The likes of the campaigns against bin charges and water charges only reinforce the strategy to privatise. And the same people who led those campaigns and others are the ones bleating now about councils not providing services. The chickens tend to come home to roost.

Wompa1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205345#Comment_119205345

To be fair, according to the CSO, there are about 5k properties in Ireland where the mortgage payer hasn't made a payment in over 10 years. There are plenty of free houses.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210428#Comment_119210428

And we all pay for that with higher mortgage rates. A mortgage in Ireland, unlike in other European countries, is effectively an unsecured loan. The bank has greater security when you get a car loan.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210314#Comment_119210314

There's the law and there's reality. Weed is illegal so no-one smokes it right? See, silliness. There's a reason the people who can't countenance being in the private rental market look for their Forever Home. Because once you're in you're never going. Do you actually, genuinely believe for a second that they're about to launch a few thousand cases before the courts? Come on. Hell, another personal example. Aunt died about 15 years ago. Lived in a council house. Her son lived there too but they would've had to pay another €3 a week (not messing) if they declared it. So almost a year after she died he got a letter saying to get out. Suffice to say 10 years later he had boarded up the windows and barricaded the back door and everything stripped out of the house. Never paid a cent and never had anyone else round. Officially he was homeless the entire time and the house was empty.

I'm annoyed at the fawning over a millionaire pontificating about something he was happy to take part in and make his profit from. He should stick to telling the victims of a terrorist massacre in Nigeria that climate change was the cause.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119209701#Comment_119209701

You haven't a rashers, the private rental market is regulated to within an inch of its life

Fattybojangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210481#Comment_119210481

You'll forgive me for not taking your opinion seriously considering you use the word WOKE in serious discussions.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210293#Comment_119210293

What we have right now is chronic moral hazard

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210515#Comment_119210515

What we have is chronic abuse on social welfare system, but continue.

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210513#Comment_119210513

WOKE is used by everyone from boards.ie contributors to mainstream media broadcasters to print journalists, it's a common term in modern parlance

I find it extremely difficult to take anyone seriously who believes that the private rental market here is completely unregulated

freemickey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119209735#Comment_119209735

Yes, you sound like a lovely person all right.

It's funny how you jump to "replacement theory", betraying your own thoughts, when all I'm talking about is the simplicity of squeezing 2 people into a space suitable for one person.

I can point to the housing crisis as an existential fact of my argument. What have you got, rambling "I wish you were dead" bullshyte?

Well, f*ck you too, troglodyte. You're on the wrong side of history, and whether some yoke fell in love with your passport or not isn't going to change anything, or whatever social situation you created for yourself.

Migration is the driving force behind multiple serious deficiencies in this country, and thats that. Numbers. Yes, basic maths, something of which you're deathly afraid.

Now off you trot, you pavlovian imbecile.

mariaalice

Poor management by the council inertia and can't be bothered by councils who are the owners of the properties is the issue.

The management and rent collection should be done by a not-for-profit organisation the councils should only commission the housing and allocate it.

Despite what you see here large multi-generational life-long unemployment and or criminal families are a small percentage of social housing tenants, some men working part-time in Tesco or driving a taxi or a woman with a part-time job do not stand out so no one ever hears about them.

There have always been housing crises in Ireland for some reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Housing_Action_Committee

Gant21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210647#Comment_119210647

Have you anything to back up your percentage claim?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119209491#Comment_119209491

Bwaaaahaaaahaaaa

A post complaining about slogans with WOKE in there.

You crack me up Max.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210515#Comment_119210515

People respond to incentives, at the moment the wrong type of behavior is incentivised. What I think we should do is, instead of having the traditional social housing model, we move away from that, with government funding going to Affordable Housing For Low Income Workers (something like 5 year lease, rent linked to income and uncapped to incentivise people to move out if they earn too much). For those who would have traditionally went on the housing list, they would then be left with either waiting for an even smaller number of council housing to become available, use HAP or get a job. We will never have enough susbsidised rentals, so it is really an allocation issue, who should get the ones we do have? I think it is much fairer to allocate to those who are working.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210575#Comment_119210575

Maybe read a history book and you will see you are already on the wrong side of history. Ireland still has shame for refusing jewish people fleeing the holocaust. I have no idea what you are saying about my passport and what "yoke" you are talking about . Ireland's housing density and occupancy rates are very low compared to the rest of Europe so there is no squeezing 2 people in the space for 1.

I don't claim to be a lovely person but I have more empathy than you.

Simple maths for you long term unemployed father of 2 with an ex partner also not working both are entailed to 2 separate 3 bed places. Versus a migrant IT working getting €80k and paying rent. Who contributes to Irish tax and society the most? In order to pay for the social welfare "family" you need others to pay tax. The problem isn't immigrants who mostly work. Refugees are part of the agreements we made in order to get up to the level of the rest of Europe where we got a lot of money.

You see your basic maths is useless because you have no economic understanding and how things are funded. You are just an angry person ignorant of basic economic understanding. I am under no illusions of your views and racism. It simply requires willful ignorance

Care to tell us what you do for a living that has you so angry?

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210446#Comment_119210446

Your cousin sounds like a scumbag

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210869#Comment_119210869

If highly skilled migrants choose to come here it is hugely beneficial to the country. We get the full benefit of the finished article, without having had to invest in their education. It is a huge win.

freemickey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210869#Comment_119210869

There are too many people on the country. People live in homes. More people, less homes. And that can be extended to many other serious problems.

I don't give a rats arse about cherry picking anything, hypotheticals, or philosophical sewerage.

There are a bunch of knuckleheads that claim these problems need to be accommodated, "just build more houses!" No, that's not reality.

That is the equivalent of some bonehead pouting a carton of milk on the floor, looking at you wall-eyed and proclaiming "I wouldn't be doing this if there was a glass!"

No. The lack of a glass isn't the problem, it's the imbecile poring milk on the floor that's the problem.

I'd love to spin your head about what I do, and where I'm making decisions on people's lives across the world. It would be funny. Don't worry about it, you just go right ahead supporting fools pouring milk on the floor and believing you're somehow above me in station.

You're wrong, your ideas are wrong, your outlook is wrong, your interpretation of reality is wrong, and the future of global sustainability has all ready discounted your ramblings, you just didn't get the message yet. You will.

freemickey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210899#Comment_119210899

That must be why the government is fast tracking an extra 40,000 non EU migrants to, essentially, prop up a failing service industry.

This "highly skilled, can only be beneficial" nonsense is dead.

An ever worsening national situation, year on year, will tell you something is clearly wrong. I'm also telling you specifically what is wrong.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211059#Comment_119211059

Highly skilled immigrants are of much greater benefit to the country than people who spend their lives with their hand out.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211041#Comment_119211041

I don't believe for a minute you do anything helping lives around the with what you have said.

The fact you can't say how I am wrong yet I can easily point to where you are wrong. We are legally obliged to take refugees and we can take them. To claim they are being brought in to staff the service industry is absolutely ridiculous and offensive. You think you would be on the right side of history by refusing to help refugees from Ukraine is ludicrous.

You could actually answer the questions put to you so we could understand your thoughts more. All you are expressing is thinly veiled racism and extreme ignorance of economics and finances. Yet we are to believe that you have enough education and intelligence to be working on something that you personally help people all over the world. It just isn't believable given what you are saying.

Talk about milk all you like but the problem with simplistic stories is they are simple yet when given a true example you are afraid to talk about it. Still glad you are so angry and helpless to change what makes you mad and you see it all still happen. You prove me wrong before you just declare it because your opinion stands for nothing with out at least a coherent argument.

freemickey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211169#Comment_119211169

Yes, and low skilled immigrants with their hands out their whole lives are of far less value than a highly skilled Irish person.

See where cherry picking gets you? That's right, nowhere.

Further, I'd hazard a guess as to the skill balance between those arriving and those not. For example, again, another 40,000 non EU migrants expedited into low skill jobs that are unaffordable for Irish people. Race to the bottom. And that's why the country is in the shape it's in.

The philosophy, nee pyramid scheme, of migration to prop up failed systems is over.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211224#Comment_119211224

Do you not think the immigrants provide a good example to the unemployed locals who don't want to work int he service industry? They can learn something from them.