Cult of Stephen Kenny

c.p.w.g.w

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171848#Comment_119171848

Qatar won the Asian competition, beating Australia, Japan along the way...2 sides who are world cup regular's and who I would say are better than Ireland

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171879#Comment_119171879

Are you having a laugh?

completedit

Ireland have awful players and tend to have awful players. We haven't produced a good player in years. Coleman/Doherty might be the last one and while they have their talents, are not enough to lift a team like Ireland. We're a bang average team with bang average players and likewise, results.

completedit

It's so obvious that Irish football exists within the orbit of English football with the discourse surrounding the National team. A lot of the discussion seems like the debate surrounding England circa 2002-2014. The difference is England always produced good players just the wrong type of good player. Ireland produce average players and mostly below average players. Our good players now are not even extremely talented more so hard working and good mentals. We have no talent. We acted as if Wes Holohan was a mercurial maestro in the mould of riquelme when in reality he's another bang average footballer.

Gusser09

Ffs lads. I give up. The Kenny LOI fan boys will use any excuse. Qatar are better than is now. Jaysus wept.

Qatar, Azerbaijan Luxembourg and Armenia. That wouldnt have happened under previous managers. Kenny is presiding over not being able to score, dreadful tactics and defensively suspect. Out of groups before the mid point.

But its not his fault. Is it.

Sebastian Dangerfield

I don't have strong views for or against Kenny either way. It used to annoy me under Trapattoni and O'Neill when people said 'we don't have the players' but we had as good as several teams who were far better than us. In the case of the current team though, we really do seem to be scraping the barrell.

I have heard some stories from friends in the media of him spending a lot of time lobbying them to go easy on him, under threat of removing access to him and players for interview. It seems an odd fight to pick given how obviously poor the team are.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171916#Comment_119171916

Where does all of that fit in with not beating teams of a much lesser quality of us though? Have a gander where Luxermbourg, azerbaijan armenia and qatar squads play their football.

You see this is a big issue. Anytime someone criticises a manager including Kenny the quality of player argument is thrown back at them. Well that doesnt stand up to scrutiny when we cant beat really poor teams. A squad of championship/pl players should be capable of beating these teams if coached properly.

completedit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171959#Comment_119171959

We don't have a team of EPL players? And there's no reason why our players championship status(many of them squad players) mean we are better than some of these teams? Ireland gains a bit from geographical proximity and cultural similarity with England,some players filter into English football and find careers there making decent money whereas the same level Armenian player might play around Europe in second rate leagues on significantly less money than a similar standard Irish player. This to be is proven by the fact that as the EPL has got more global Irish players have been pushed further down the English pyramid. Even in the Championship few Irish players are stand out performers.

Strumms

Crawford is simply a former LOI footballer and a very decent one who progressed to playing a handful of games for Newcastle United, actually I’ve checked it and a few less then a handful.. he played twice for em.

Coaching..

2008 Shamrock Rovers (interim)

2016–2019 Republic of Ireland U18 (Coach)

2018–2020 Republic of Ireland U21 (Assistant)

2020–Republic of Ireland U21 (Manager)

absolutely nothing approaching a pedigree or experience whereby you’d want him near an Ireland senior setup at this juncture of his coaching career.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171967#Comment_119171967

Im sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about. Really deluded to think championship players, a lot with PL experience, shouldnt be beating Armenia, who mostly play in Armenia. Thats a new level of nonsense. They were beating these teams under previous managers. The Kenny apologists are really losing the plot.

briany

I think some of the logic of getting Kenny in (apart from the relatively low salary in comparison to previous managers) is the idea that he could achieve something similar to what Michael O'Neill did with the North. Like O'Neill, Kenny's CV wasn't exactly glittering before getting the national job, and like O'Neill, Kenny hasn't been impressive out of the gate. O'Neill's NI finished second to last in their WC 2014 qualifying bid. But O'Neill came good following on from that. He got NI to their first ever Euros and took them arguably closer to getting to the WC 2018 than our own lot (they didn't lose 1-5 to their playoff opposition).

The FAI clearly seem prepared to give Kenny at least as much runway as O'Neill got, i.e. two full qualifying campaigns.

As I see it, the simple fact is this: until the right standard of player is there, the team can look to play a modern type of game but lack the awareness and skill to make this work consistently or they can revert to type and play a cautious way with no plan B if get behind the ball and try to nick a set piece doesn't work. I've followed Ireland long enough now to know that fans will complain about either approach and will, without fail, claim in the aftermath of a loss that the thing the team should have done is the thing they didn't do in the game. It's just eternally "the grass is always greener on the other side".

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171996#Comment_119171996

I 100 percent agree with you. I do however expect is to beat Armenia, Azerbaijan, Lixwmbourg and Qatar.

I can except we dont have the players to qualify regulary but what hope do we have if we cant beat teams like that.

That loss to Armenia has screwed us rightly. Not for the first time under this manager are we out of a group before it has started. I can see us beating either scotland or ukraine home and away. Thats what it'll take because they will both beat Armenia.

ArnoldJRimmer

We should expect to beat Azerbaijan and Qatar at home, against Lux, we should be expecting better performances, but it’s arrogant to think that we should beat them every time we step onto the pitch with the squad we have.

And at this stage of Kenny’s tenure, we should be expecting better results. Not one Irish fan I know personally has said otherwise. And if he doesn’t qualify for the Euros he should go.

But the ‘we should go back to hoofing the ball because that worked for us once (2016, 2012 was a disgrace) in the last 20 years’ fanboys/ cult need to stop ignoring the fact that Kenny started from a very low base and has actually tried out a ton of new players and to implement a system that may or may not work.

Given the almost constant failure aside from the O’Neill years, which turned poisonous, I’ll take it for now, it may bring us somewhere, it may not. I don’t want to settle for scraping into a playoff and getting tonked by the first decent team we meet, which is why I’m reasonably happy that he’s at least trying to change things similar to what the other O’Neill did up north.

Thats not being a ‘Kenny fanboy,’ it’s reasonable support for a manager who is not limiting himself to finding the next Simon Cox to hoof it up to, rinse and repeat. Because that has been the alternative since Mick’s first reign in charge.

Fandymo

Luxembourg scraped to a 1-0 win over a 9 man Faroes tonight ffs. How is it arrogant to expect to be beating that dross?? Ffs!!

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172168#Comment_119172168

A real LOI culture we have inherited.

ArnoldJRimmer

A few years ago we struggled to beat Gibraltar 1-0 away, and were only marginally better at home. While not where we should be, it’s an indication of how far our stock has fallen, so yes, it’s arrogant to believe we should beat them every time we go on the pitch with where we are right now

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172190#Comment_119172190

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

We are where we are because of what has gone on before. It isn’t arrogant to think we should beat Luxembourg, it is just the reality of how far our standards and expectations have dropped. Even with a team full of championship players, most would expect them to be good enough to beat Luxembourg.

Incidentally, the team at the weekend included 6 premiership plays, though I’m not sure I should count Parott in that, and a guy I never heard of who apparently plays for Anderlect.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171356#Comment_119171356

fully sidestepping the actual point which was about actually being there or thereabouts competing for playoffs

we're a long step back from that and still theres fellas telling us we never had it so good, by god

kowloonkev

Most genuine supporters care more about change of style and long term planning than who the manager is. Belgium used to play turgid negative football until the early 2000's and then they made a plan which didn't really yield results for a decade or more.

Those who are 'defending' Kenny are actually defending what they hope is radical change taking place at all levels of the national team and defending the idea of long term planning. What we fear is that the changes being made are abandoned, and every few years we have either a second rate or semi retired manager coming over with their uncompromising ideas telling us all how to do it and not giving two s**ts about the underage development.

Did you smash it

Does anyone know anyone who went to school with Kenny or when he worked in the private sector?

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172382#Comment_119172382

No kowloonkev, most “genuine supporters” do not care more about change of style than the manager. They care more about the fact that the results have been atrocious and the change of style has benefitted us to the point that we struggle to beat some of the worst teams on the planet.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171990#Comment_119171990

Playing in the championship is one thing and there weren’t actually many of our starters who were regular in the championship at the tail end of last season; possibly only John Egan who was a nailed on starter.

but even the others: callum robinson, Enda stevens, Jeff hendrick. Are they difference makers at that level? Fine playing at that level but are they lads who are starring at that level?

kenny may be naive to think that we can play passing progressive football but any other manager is going to have to make so with a squad of sloggers not final third killers

osarusan

There may be a greater proportion of them, but I'm not sure how accurate this black and white 'LOI diehards support Kenny' is. I'm one of those (check my posting history) and think he should be long gone.

If people have a browse of foot.ie they'll see LOI fans who think he should be gone and non-LOI fans who think he should get more time.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172474#Comment_119172474

Certainly borne out at media level, Ken early and Dion fanning wouldn’t be seen dead at a LOI game and are part of Kenny’s biggest champions.

McGinniesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162629#Comment_119162629

Unlike Stephen Kenny who is a "Non Long Ball Expert" who loses 1-0 to Armenia and Luxembourg

McGinniesta

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164545#Comment_119164545

Have things improved against the likes of Georgia?

Absolutely not.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172546#Comment_119172546

Yes they've actually gotten much worse. We are now losing to teams worse than Georgia, rather than mostly beating them and occasionally drawing with them in admittedly drab encounters. I'll take what we had before over passing the ball around the back for 75 minutes and lumping it for 5, then losing anyway - under this so called philosophy.

Patrick2010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172233#Comment_119172233

If you've never heard of Josh Cullen I really don't think you should be commenting on Ireland.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172557#Comment_119172557

Surely you see that you have to make the most of the tools are your disposal. You might think it’s an improvement to play a more aesthetically pleasing brand of football, but if they are getting turned over by the dregs of world football, you have to question if the experiment is working.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172382#Comment_119172382

The remit of the senior mens international manager is not to develop grassroutes football in this country. It is not to develop players. It is to win senior football matches.

Acting as if linking up with Ireland for 3 or 4 weeks out of a 52 week year has anything but the most negligible (if any) impact on a young players development is so f*cking preposterous - and yet you see it all the time in relation to Kenny.

If Omobamidele or Parrott are going to develop into good players, it's going to be because of their decisions, actions and influences at club level. Not international football. If the FAI are unhappy with the general standard of player emerging, then that is a completely seperate issue than who is in charge of the senior team. If they want better underage coaching, better facilities, better player pathways, a better national league to grow those talents - literally none of that has anything to do with Kenny.

There is no long term 'style'. You pick your best 11 and you have them play in a way that gets the most out of them. If more players come on the scene through success at club level, you integrate them and if that requires you to change your tactics, you do so. This is not club football. The manager cannot go and sign players to fit his philosophy as he did at club level. You cannot fit a round peg into a square hole.