Cult of Stephen Kenny

bazza1

The quality of the players may not be there, but surely the job of the manager is to get the best out the resources he's got! Can we say that is happening?

U21s looking to qualify for finals yet lots of eligible players with senior squad? Let them play U21 and qualify and maybe learn something at a finals tournament?

Irelands most prolific striker on the payroll and not tasked to work with our young strikers, senior, U21, U19, U17s? What a waste!

Conceding goals against pot 4 teams from midfield where we get caught on the break despite 5 at the back?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165935#Comment_119165935

I know you don’t understand strategy.

briany

@bazza1 The quality of the players may not be there, but surely the job of the manager is to get the best out the resources he's got! Can we say that is happening?

The only time I've heard this be generally agreed is the odd time when Ireland would get a win over a decently rated team or better. That kind of talk disappears whenever this does not happen.

Basically, I think there is an unspoken idea which circulates among football fans, especially fans of underdog teams, that if they just had the right manager with the right system, he could unlock all the hidden potential and whip that ragtag motley crew into a team of world beaters, Mighty Ducks style.

Even if you could get that manager, it would really only be a temporary distraction from a large and intractable problem that the FAI and Irish football fans do not want to face, and that is that the Irish system has been producing no great players in the last 25 years. The reason that we look back fondly upon Charlton's era, and Mick's era (to a lesser extent) was because the team was loaded with international-level talent. No longer is this true. You can replace the manager every year or every other year. It will not change this fact. The youth system in the country must be changed. Money must come from somewhere for this to happen as well. That's the only way to really up the chances of future success. Until then, swapping managers is just a case of rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.

BailMeOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165935#Comment_119165935

eventually yes but in the meanwhile, we need to be patient.

How long did it take Iceland to get to where they are?

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166163#Comment_119166163

In fairness, Iceland wouldn't be a great example. They finished the WC qualification on as many points as Ireland but with a far worse goal difference. Think their bubble has well and truly burst.

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165762#Comment_119165762

Nah they're better teams than Ireland and in all your scenarios if we lose to better teams or even home teams with more supporters than that's OK.

Unless it's the current team, then its not OK.

So to summarise you're full of $hite.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166069#Comment_119166069

There are few competitors that winning or at least being competitive is not part of their strategy. In Irelands case the aim is to qualify for tournaments, to do that, they have to win matches.

Opinions on strategy may differ, most however would agree that sustained failure is not part of it. It is difficult to achieve anything when you are losing nearly all of the time, unless of course your aim is to come bottom of your group, then your strategy is working.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166270#Comment_119166270

What a pretty piece of blah. You don’t know strategy. Bye bye.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165771#Comment_119165771

Literally anyone. You could put a green wheelie bin in charge and it would probably beat Luxembourg/Armenia

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166069#Comment_119166069

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166296#Comment_119166296

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165930#Comment_119165930

The state of your posts...absolute shyte.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165824#Comment_119165824

It’s really not an equivalent comparison. Or anywhere near.

he has achieved in the domestic league… a by and large competition played by amateur footballers, certainly.

but when more has been asked of him, with the international team, he’s been an abject failure.

when he managed Dunfermline for a season, he got them relegated. An abject failure.

he’s had opportunities but when been called on to deliver he’s not been up to it… his record speaks for itself.

he is tactically a one trick pony, that can work in LOI but professional football and footballers, no….

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166791#Comment_119166791

What about the results against Portugal an Serbia? we were very unlucky not to beat Portugal (one of the best teams in the world) away. we have struggled against weaker teams the last 20 years, you cant blame Kenny for that.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166815#Comment_119166815

I actually don’t blame Kenny. He got the job and did his best…

i blame those who looked at a list of candidates and said..

yes, let’s hire an amateur manager.

yes, let’s hire a manager with next to no relationships with a single player in the squad.

yes, let’s hire a manager with no experience of the players or the standard we’ll be up against.

yes, let’s hire a manager with next to no experience or relationships with the managers and staff of the clubs his own players play for.

Kenny is a tactically naive guy, little experience of football at a professional level, and certainly no experience of the machinations of the sport at this completely different level than he’s used to.

the results tell all the above… picking a draw against Portugal and Serbia where we got one point out of six ? And that’s to defend Kenny ?

He’d been managing football teams for 22 years when he got the Irish job., 90% of that time manager of amateur teams.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165294#Comment_119165294

Pretty much, there appears to be a fundamental breach between the underage structure here and the LOI.

Kenny could be better i'm sure but until we sort out the player development issues we'll always be up against it.

pgj2015

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166857#Comment_119166857

Did Kenny not manage a lot of the younger players when he was Ireland u21 manager?

what relationship did Trapattoni have with any of the Irish players before he got the job?

We got a draw with Serbia and portugal, we should have beaten portugal in portugal.

Dundalk are a full time professional team by the way, its insulting to call them amateurs.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119166857#Comment_119166857

lol

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167006#Comment_119167006

There's no use almost beating Portugal or Serbia and then losing to Armenia or Luxembourg .

A bit like the other out of his depth LOI manager Kerr managing and knowing some of the players when they were youths counts for nothing when they are mature senior players.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167006#Comment_119167006

“Should have” means fcuk all in professional sport.

completedit

Irish football is broken tbh. When the most successful manager in the nation's national league is reduced to being a hopeless dunce that tells you all you need to know about where we're at. You can't undermine the pinnacle of the game in this country and expect positive results. It's absurd. I think Kenny is out of his depth tbh but more so because he has let his ego take over and pandered to the 'football philosophy' nonense. as a LOI manager he probably feels he has to commit to this ethos to distinguish him from the more mercenary managers like Trap who come in, berate the talent and treat the job as a means to an end and not as a project.

that we either play a certain primitive way or get results is a totally false assertion

it was untrue when trapattoni tried to justify awful football - and a misuse of an ok squad - while getting the bare minimum acceptable results

its untrue now when kenny insists a style of play is mitigation for achieving below the bare minimum acceptable results

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167006#Comment_119167006

Trapattoni had the pedigree of managing ..

Juventus..

multiple domestic trophies including 6 Sierie A titles and a European Cup as well as several more European trophies.

inter Milan..

more titles and cups

Bayern…

more trophies

so he has traversed the continent, winning, in European comps and domesticly… in professional, competitive, international leagues.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164651#Comment_119164651

We played 3 teams ranked in the top 10 at the time. 2 of which reached the final. Absolutely no shame in that context. We did well to even make it.

Optimalprimerib

The pool of players ireland have at the minute is at the lowest standard in a long time. Very few in the Premier league, and most of them are squad players at best.

Even in the championship none of them are setting the world alight. Losing to Armenia is disappointing but not surprising, end of season lethargy kicks in and in 35 degree heat it makes it even more difficult.

Not making excuses but we are crap, not only because of the manager.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167857#Comment_119167857

Not making excuses, but here’s a list of them. And an absolution of the manager of any blame.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119167857#Comment_119167857

Have you seen where the Armenian players and Luxembourg players play their football?

I can take the quality of player argument when when we lose to Serbia and the likes but not Armenia or Luxembourg.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119165930#Comment_119165930

Kenny could stand there kicking the ball into his own net all day and he'd still have huge support from sections of Irish football and that's because he's a LoI man.

LoI supporters have been dreaming of the day when their league mixes with the best of them and produces players and managers that can succeed at the highest level. Kenny was their best chance to prove that their league had "made it".

There is absolutely no way these supporters are ever going to turn on Kenny as it would mean admitting that the great white hope of their league ultimately failed.

amacca

In fairness to Kenny after all the criticism we just don't have enough quality players to perform at a higher level afaic

And they do try to at least play the game as opposed to get 10 men behind the ball and look like ducks in thunder when they advance towards the halfway line ...thats what I was looking at in recent years before his reign

If you are fair minded then at least think of the players that were on successful irish teams of the past like the ones that went to world cups in 1990, 94, 2002.........

No disrespect to current crop but they were at higher level, simple as that....many of them competed week in week out in English 1st division/premier league.....we simply don't have as many at that level any more....2 good goalkeepers, a right back or two, a striker that shows promise maybe....and that's about it for the moment

There are less and less quality players available due to a number of factors....the amount of gametime irish players get has been declining year on year....... in the recent past there was no core/critical mass of decent players to attract English qualified lads over .... you could choose between England reaching Finals or Ireland hoofing long balls and shutting up shop at 0-0 from minute one...

In a parallel universe maybe noble grealish, rice and Kane play for ireland and attract a couple more and we have a couple of moral victories in a semi final.

Ireland should beat Armenia having said that. And a couple more poor results like that and those that want him out will get their wish so there's no point arguing afaic.

My prediction an incoming manager may not do much better because they don't as things stand have the players to work with.....maybe hughton could over achieve??

Ireland moving up the ranking in international soccer will not be down to the manager alone, if there was a really good youth structure, an improved league and increased efforts to get lads into other leagues then things might pick up....

This country is somewhat unique in terms of the scale and popularity of two competing forces namely GAA and Rugby and in terms of its population/player pool........I see young players (in GAA particularly) that are very talented that would probably play soccer/basketball to a high level in another country....in the past some did in this country (when it was less well off) .... that's a reduction in our numbers straight off

In a way the kinds of players irish soccer had in the past was a bit of an anomaly brought about by proximity to foreign league, emigration and poverty........

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164543#Comment_119164543

Before kenny took over we were regularly challenging for Euro & World cup qualifications, now where are we? The bottom of the barrel, struggling to get results against teams we would usually have beaten 4 or 5 nil.

LOL.......We weren't regularly doing anything of the sort. We've qualified for two finals in the last twenty years and our aggregate score in those two competitions is something like scored 4, conceded 20. We were a jokeshop of a team, the kinda country that everyone would be hoping ends up in their group.

We've already been regularly going 4-6 years of not qualifying for anything, the only difference now is that we're playing a better brand of football with a better ethos around the team. What's the alternative? Back to paying Premier League castoffs who know SFA about anything to do with the boys in green? Someone who'll scour the depths of the lower leagues for Granny-rulers but have never set foot in a LOI ground? Chris Bleeding Hughton who has one international win under his belt, vs Madagascar?

Short term pain vs long term gain.......as opposed to short term pain and no long term plan

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168534#Comment_119168534

I mean that's nonsense. Kenny has presided over a loss to Luxembourg, Armenia and a draw at home to the powerhouses of Azerbaijan. How is that a higher level? Come on. The we don't have the players argument is fine when we ship a beating to decent teams. But not those 3.

What are the reasons why we are regularly and consistently getting beaten by part times under Kenny?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168534#Comment_119168534

english league is at a far higher level now with far more players not from british isles, that doesnt mean its a slam dunk case to say we dont have ten liverpool players anymore- our players ought to still be getting to a decent level.

and theres far greater opportunity now for international teams to qualify for tournaments than previously

the man is simply not performing