New tenant moved in with a pet without telling us

francis1978

Hello everyone,

My wife and I are renting out a Duplex we have in Dublin, we have moved to the other side of the country, because of this we used a Dublin based estate agent to select tenants, we were very clear that we did not want tenants with pets as we were concerned about damage etc. After being very selective we decided upon a couple who moved into the property approx 6 weeks ago, we were tipped off today by a former neighbour that they moved in with a dog.

We will be raising the issue with the EA tomorrow but would like to understand what our options are?

Has anyone else experienced a similar problem, how was it resolved?

DubCount

Is there a "no pets" clause in the lease?

I have duplex in Dublin let to European tenants who keep pets, with my consent. They are great tenants and even have re painted the interior same colour from time to time. There is no evidence of any pet damage, if any was caused they have repaired it. A lot of continental Europeans are very responsible pet keepers, and as an animal lover myself, I was willing to take the risk and it has worked out. I reckon some tenants might be way worse than any animals they might keep.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246377/new-tenant-moved-in-with-a-pet-without-telling-us

Your options are either let them stay with the pet or give them one months' notice to quit.

Doesn't matter if it's in the lease or not, you can cancel within the first 6 months for ANY reason. If they're so flagrantly sidestepping any rules already handed down, then good riddance, they'll treat every rule like that.

Apiarist

Why is a dog a problem? Does the flat have rare irreplaceable antique furniture?

Furze99

Pet owning might be an indication of a better quality of tenant, a stable couple, as pets require care and so on. What type of dog would be a starter question.

So proceed with caution, you could end up removing responsible type tenants and replace with petless loo laas who hold parties every other week..

On other hand, there are some people keep nasty dog breeds who could be unpleasant to neighbours.

CreadanLady

I'd rather nice european tenants who are responsible enough to care for a dog than a few "young professionals" who let the place descend into squalor and allow their friends to vomit into your deep pile carpets every weekend.

..... and another dog ends up in the local pound on death row..... and its not the dogs fault. I volunteer with an animal rescue centre and most dogs currently being surrendered are because people are not allowed take them to a new rental property. Very sad. I agree with other posters who say it can be a good indication of people. I think in my book the calibre of your new tenants would be more important than the dog. Any damage should mean no return of deposit.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081404#Comment_119081404

Loads of reasons.

Why is following the rules a problem?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081462#Comment_119081462

Not the OP's problem or even their concern. Tenants shouldn't have gotten a dog if they weren't allowed.

I would hold the opposite view to yourself. It is an indication of what people are like, but that's not always positive. If I was renting out a place and someone so blatantly and willfully ignored a major deal-breaker like that so early on in the lease, I'd get rid ASAP. The calibre of your tenants has been proven to be less than trustworthy, they went behind your back and flouted one of your/their covenants. End of story.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081404#Comment_119081404

Some people don't love dogs or cats or any other animals for that matter just as others do like them. That's life for you in all its colours.

hayse

We work in maintenance and the smell of dog in homes that have dogs is disgusting. Hair and faeces and marks from dogs tearing at everything.

B9K9

I operate an airbnb and welcome pets almost without restriction. This tenant broke faith immediately and is liable for breach of contract, good luck all the same.

Flinty997

A tenant breaking a lease is the tenants fault. No one else's.

Character assassination isn't going to sell the idea pet owners are better tenants. If you think that you're sadly mistaken. Likewise if you are unable to look after a pet don't make it someone else's problem.

Apiarist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081618#Comment_119081618

It's great then the OP does not lives with his tenants in the same house, so that is not a problem.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081619#Comment_119081619

If a dog **** in the house, then it's a problem. Fortunately, this is not the usual behaviour for dogs at all. I had multiple dogs, none of them ever did that. A short walk couple of times a day takes care of this issue.

Either the pet or the tenant goes, but, that is on the assumption that your lease contains a “no pet” clause and/or, the EA informed the tenant that it is a condition of the tenancy. If you have neither, then you will be having a conversation with your EA, but your tenants will be on solid ground should you try and terminate a term lease.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081404#Comment_119081404

Why is a dog a problem? Does the flat have rare irreplaceable antique furniture?

Without meaning to, your comment suggests dog is a risk to furniture.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081651#Comment_119081651

Well, it is if they feel they have to pay for cleaning once the animal leaves.

circular flexing

There are good pet owners and bad pet owners. It's sometimes hard to tell which type of owner they will be. At the end of the day, they have broken the terms of the lease (assuming there is a no pets clause in the lease).

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081623#Comment_119081623

Exactly this.

The problem is not the dog/pet. Its the deception.

For a long term rent you are often going to replacing all the furniture and repainting the whole place anyway. So a dog or a pet isn't the issue you might think. Not for a good tenant. Depends on the owner.

goldenmick

I'd be wanting to check the breed of dog first of all. It could be a chihuahua for all you know.

A bleedin' budgie would do more damage than one of them.

https://www.insidedogsworld.com/top-16-smallest-dog-breeds/

Now if it's a big bugger of a labrador, or great dane, well...

... put the rent up another 100 or so a month, or turf them out. Your choice.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058246377/new-tenant-moved-in-with-a-pet-without-telling-us

You need to check the lease to make sure it said no pets.

Ask the EA if it was made clear to them. Let him find out why they broke the lease based on above.

Then decide based on the type of dog and if you want to take the risk.

Sleeper12

The only real issue I see is if the LL officially allows a dog then the LL has to accept more wear and tear on the property.

Cdemess

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081830#Comment_119081830

And the tenants lose their deposit to pay for any damage their dog did when they leave. Simple solution

Apiarist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081668#Comment_119081668

I mean exactly what I say. Everything is a risk. Unless the flat is filled with inert gas at low temperature with no light coming in, there will be some wear and tear. If a dog (or a human) living at the premises breaks something, then it should be paid for or replaced by tenants, that is not a question. What I question is the irrational limitation that a landlord feels free to impose on tenants. What's next? No kids allowed?

I am getting off topic, of course. There is already a good advice for the OP -- if they don't like the tenants, they may ask them to leave.

HerrKapitan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081442#Comment_119081442

Judging by the increase in media reports of serious dog fouling on beaches, etc, not being picked up, its clear that there are a lot of irresponsible dog owners out there.

MakersMark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081871#Comment_119081871

You should buy a place and rent it to the tenants in question so.

Problem solved.

Browney7

Did you give a one year lease OP?

If breach of tenancy obligations you inserted in the lease, do you have to give an opportunity for them to remedy? What if they inform you "the dog is gone" and they have a friend mind it for a few days. You inspect, dog gone, what do you do then? Do you have evidence to go to the RTB with if it goes that far? How do you plan on collecting evidence they have a dog in contravention with the lease? Will you depend on the neighbour to go to an RTB hearing to back you up?

Sleeper12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081847#Comment_119081847

That doesn't wash I'm afraid. Letting them have a dog obviously puts more wear & tear on the property. Allowing the dog is allowing the extra wear & tear. It's considered normal wear & tear. You can't hold the deposit back for normal wear & tear.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081830#Comment_119081830

Noise complaints?

The other family in the duplex being allergic to dog hairs?

And what about the OPs lease? The vast, vast, vast majority of multi-occupancy tenancies in Ireland are leasehold, not freehold. This covers pretty much every single apartment and duplex in the country. Pets are banned EVEN BY OWNER OCCUPIERS in most of them. You could even end up being in breach of your landlord's insurance, depending on how that's worded.

Guy in my block got at least two warnings from the OMC over his tenants bringing in pets. He was told that a third one would instigate legal action by the OMC.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081871#Comment_119081871

Everything is a risk what nonsense is that. Car insurance isn't the same for everyone. Because risk isn't always the same.

I mind a family member dog now and then. Last time he demolished half a window sill. Lot of friends with dogs have had to replace the grass in their gardens with more hardwearing materials. That not something a LL should be expect to carry for free. The deposit won't cover that kind of stuff.

Its not irrational, its a lease. Don't like it, don't rent it.

Apiarist

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081913#Comment_119081913

I wish I could, but generally people giving free advice on the boards are rarely people who have 450K ready to spend on issues they comment on ;)

Toots

Was "no pets" specified in the lease? Was your communication with the EA via email - ie can you come back to them and clearly point out that you said no dogs and yet they've stuck a tenant in with a dog?

AFAIK if the lease specified no dogs and they moved one in, you can give them notice to quit. If the EA didn't tell them it's no pets and it's not on the lease, then it might be more complicated.

I rented with a dog and we were upfront with the landlord beforehand - offered to pay a higher deposit etc but he was happy enough after the first couple of inspections that we were keeping the place nicely and not letting the dog wreck it.

I have my old apartment rented out and there's no way I'd be ok with letting it out with a dog in it. Aside from potential mess/wear and tear issues, my main concern would be noise. A dog left alone in an apartment all day while the owner is at work is likely to bark, and that'll lead to complaints from neighbours and possible trouble with the management company. When I lived there one of the neighbours below had a dog that barked all the time and she was home most of the day, so even though the dog wasn't left alone, it was still very noisy.

It's not a matter of being a dog lover or not, the issue is they potentially acted in bad faith by concealing the fact that they planned on bringing a dog in. That's definitely not a great start to a good landlord/tenant relationship.

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081954#Comment_119081954

You don't need 450k. You just need to have the confidence to borrow and it take the risk other people do.

If you won't take the risk, it suggests you don't think its low risk either.

petronius

To me, it is the deception that is the issue?

I rented from a decent dude, quirky rules, don't park your bike in the front garden or hall bring it out the back, don't leave the bins in the front garden bring them out the back - but we complied. There was a no-pets clause! But when a housemate requested that she keep a cat(her sister's who was going off around the world), the landlord asked the rest of us staying in the place, did we mind (we were all too polite to refuse) so she was let have her cat. It did make my allergies worse...

I think the decent thing for a tenant is to be respectful and ask? not doing so is just bad manners - bad behaviour

Tar.Aldarion

Generally I'm sure they would ask but there is only 800 properties to rent in the whole of ireland so it is a disaster for people to find anything, let alone with their pet. Just have inspections done by the EA and that's it.

Astartes

Throw them out for a higher class of tenant. Call the gards aswell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082183#Comment_119082183

Not the point. If the op prohibited pets in the property, then it was let on that basis. Whether it is difficult to find an alternative is not the concern of the op, nor indeed should there be an onus to change the terms of the tenancy to increase the number of inspections. Pets have always been a deal breaker for me and I do not under any circumstances, including offers of higher payments allow tenants to have them in the property.

Tar.Aldarion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082210#Comment_119082210

Didn't say any different, just why everyone will be doing it.

Ginger83

With the laws heavily in favour of tenants some believe that the rules don't apply to them.

The concern is if they breached contract and trust.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082207#Comment_119082207

Wow, that escalated quickly.

Caranica

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081925#Comment_119081925

100% this. You'll get in trouble for breach of contract with the management company OP. Deal with this asap.

endofrainbow

What did the EA say when you contacted them about it ?

JimmyVik

Smell of dogs is disgusting. And you ALWAYS get the stink of them when you go into any house where they have one. PEople who own pets cant smeel them of course so dont give a crap what everyone else has to smell when they go into their houses. And God help you if you ever didnt pretend you cant smell them. Does my house smell of dogs? Its like asking does my bum look big in this? There is only one answer. Lie.

Detritus70

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082207#Comment_119082207

I think someone doesn't get laid enough

MacDanger

Depends on a few things IMO, if they don't have a fixed term lease and they're there less than 6 months, you can kick them out with no reason required.

If they have a fixed term lease, it gets a bit more complicated as I don't think you can just kick them out - you need to notify them that they are breaching their lease terms and give them an opportunity to remedy the situtation - from the PRTB website: The LL can terminate the lease if "The tenant has not complied with their responsibilities, despite being notified of this in writing by the landlord and being given reasonable time to remedy the matter(s)"

Only you can decide whether or not this breach of the lease is significant enough to kick them out or not - on the one hand, they lied to you but on the other hand, it's pretty hard to find a property at the moment so it's understandable that people lie. Personally, I wouldn't have a pet in the house but everyone has their own opinion on that

BailMeOut

It's your house but it's now your tenant's home and they should be able to rent and live just like anyone in a normal civilized society which includes having a pet. I rented for 10 years in Ireland and is BS like this that gets landlords a bad name in many cases well deserved. Yes, it's your investment, a path you choose but your investment is now a family home and they have every right to live happily in it, and if that means they want a pet so be it. If you do not like this then sell and let someone else rent or buy your house as does not sounds like you are not cut out to be a proper and caring landlord.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119085914#Comment_119085914

Rubbish, there is no right to have a pet if the house owners prohibits it. Having a pet is a choice, if you want to have one, look for a rental that allows them.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119081442#Comment_119081442

No offence but that is absolute nonsense regarding a better quality of tenant, many, and Id consider it a majority majority of people are not responsible pet owners, even if they are towards their pet/s they aren't necessarily towards their neighbours. A duplex doesnt sound like the ideal accomodation for pet ownership, ie are there neighbours downstairs? is the pet barking constantly? if so now is the time to sort it out, not that there isn't the potential for a negative response, but better sort it now than later. Is it definitely in the lease? if it wasn't desired specifically, it should be, otherwise if the tenant didnt know about it or the agent didnt inform them which is likely they could be justifiably unhappy, however, its more often than not the case that pets aren't liked in rentals, because they can bother neighbours and there is no recourse for a landlord if they cause damage.

cena

Cry me a river. So what if they have a pet in the house.

1874

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119082073#Comment_119082073

You could just as easily have been polite and said you have allergies, if the landlord had a no pets policy then I dont even see why he agreed, he'd have done you more of a favour if he declined himself on your behalf discreetly by just saying He didnt want it.

I dont even see whats quirky about the bins and bicycle rules, bins left in front garden can be exposed to being tipped/blown over at a rental and no one may care/do anything about it, just rubbish everywhere, or stolen both hassle, time, cost for the LL, bikes out front (bicycle) can attract attention and get stolen (even if locked) bikes in hallways may hinder exiting a property in an emergency and generally block the way, bring in wet/dirt and deteriorate carpets. These are commonsense and considerate rules that benefit the landlord and the tenants (lodgers?). The landlord had no obligation to take in the tenants sisters cat as she was going off on a holiday, nor should anyone else had to have any inconvenience because of it, your own allergies suffered, probably cost you to deal with that aside from dealing with it.

I have a dog and I take care of her, but its not something Id want to burden other people with, I was a landlord and I declined permission to have pets and it happened anyway, a cat shredded arms on a suite of furniture, another had a dog, while it didnt apparently do damage, my own went through a phase of chewing through skirting board, its just not hassle or cost a landlord needs.