30 year old arts graduate struggling to get by

johnboy92

Hi guys,

Im posting because I need help. I cant afford to buy a house and this makes me feel subhuman in this country. Im from and live in Dublin.

I turn 30 this year. I finished school in 2010 and the height of the recession, the career guidance in school (middle class south Dublin), was fully based on going to UCD or Trinity. No other options existed. I never heard about STEM, never about trades, never about anything but the need to especially not attend IT Tallaght.

So I did a UCD arts degree in Sociology and Political Science after gaining 450 points in my leaving cert, I graduated in 2014, and did a post graduate diploma in Public Relations. Since then I have been unable to get a job earning over 30,000. I spent 4 years in a media agency working as a client services manager. I moved into tourism marketing after this and lost that role due to covid. For the last year I am working for facebook on the helpdesk for advertising clients.

I have literally sent out hundreds of CVs for higher wages and cannot get anything. People here talk about high paying jobs as if everyone can get one if they work hard enough. Thats not true, even my manager in work is living in a house share.

I have applied for a visa to go to Canada, just to get away from the shame I feel in my inability to live outside a house share (even on HAP) or to buy a home. Ive never been unemployed, I work damn hard and take every bit of overtime going, but I will never be able to buy a house on my income being single in Dublin.

I want no hand outs, my political instincts are conservative (hate long term welfare, dislike how having a child is seen as a life choice) I just want a normal standard of living with a basic car, a secure home and enough disposable income to have a pint on a Saturday night. Why does that seem out of my reach?

How do I not feel inferior for my wages and being a renter?

Buddy Bubs

Look into a postgraduate program in an area in demand that you like. IT and finance are the big 2 earners, but depends on what you are like with these disciplines.

_Kaiser_

The reality is that you'll probably have to retrain in something where there's greater demand for those skills and thus higher earning potential.

However, even with that it's no guarantee at the moment as there's simply not enough housing (in the areas people want it) to meet the demand, and even then individuals AND couples are being outbid on housing by private equity/investment firms and local councils who are in turn renting them back out to (social) tenants.

Qrt

Have a look on springboard and see if there's anything you'd be interested in.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940333#Comment_118940333

I already have a post grad. I have looked into IT (though Maths was my only ordinary level in school) and I cannot do a post grad in it without having to do access courses and a degree. I also think this IT boom is causing division as most people are no longer gaining from economic growth outside niche areas and most of those earning big are coming from over seas, and in turn pricing locals out of the rental market

Donald Trump

Two choices after Arts - Teacher or McDonalds. No?

McDonalds are actually supposed to be decent enough payers

As for not going to Tallaght for college, sure you went to UCD anyway so it much of a muchness. Might have picked up a few more tips on making money from crime or even just practical things like how to hotwire a car out in Tallaght though

BingCrosbee

You sound a decent lad. There are a lot of people in your predicament and it’s not nice. If you had a partner to fight life together things might seem so bad. Best of luck to you. All you need is a break.

Buddy Bubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940349#Comment_118940349

Yes, you'd be correct there with the high earners distorting the rental market, things are far different than they used to be. I'm glad I am 10 years older than you. The last recession and housing crash allowed me to buy a house on my own in 2010 that I would have been crippled on in mortgage payments at its 2008 price. Lucky timing I guess. But hopefully access to housing improves soon.

afatbollix

I left the country in 2010, Best thing I did. It's shite coming back to see family as it would be great to just be down the road but my career is going great for someone who didn't do great at the leaving! Ireland is the size of a small city in the UK/USA.

I also echo not being told about learning a trade, My brother left school at 16 and became an apprentice as a farrier and could be flat out 7 days a week with the amount of work he can get! If I left school again tomorrow I would have trained as an electrician. You are never too late to change career. If you fancy a trade loads of places would rather a 30-year-old than a 20-year-old who is out every weekend! The pay might be crap for the first year or two but then you will be on good money!

Annasopra

Are there any jobs you could work from home and move to live to a much cheaper place than Dublin?

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940349#Comment_118940349

Do some good free online programming course in Java or Python and see how you get on.

And read a beginner's book or two on the subject.

Spend a good few days/weeks on this.

Don't give up.

If you enjoy it then you are suitable to kick start a programming career.

You don't need honours maths, just an enjoyment and passion for programming. And time.

Even if not, there are other non programming careers in IT, but I can't comment on those.

[Deleted User]

Stop worrying about buying a house for a start OP, and start living your life.

Have you ever lived overseas? It's time to go, see the world, travel, do anything to keep you going when you're there. Don't worry about houses and careers, just enjoy it while you're young enough with no responsibilities.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940403#Comment_118940403

There are actually subsidised online part-time Masters under Skillnet if people want to change to, or get trained up in, more "modern" areas

Retraining is definitely what I'd recommend. I come from an arts background and now work in software. Obviously you need to pursue something you have somewhat of an interest in though. I know loads of people who moved field in their thirties and later, went well for them.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940413#Comment_118940413

Thanks, I wish I could do this and its my plan at least to go on the 2 year visa for Canada. But it seems that everything in Ireland is about owning a home and it feels like behind an outsider when you don't. Like if renting was not seen as some kind of plague for victims and the unclean I don't think I would have all this anxiety, and I also don't think the housing crisis would be seen as such. We need to fix the rental market in this country and most importantly the attitudes towards renting instead of pushing people in more and more isolated areas to buy a small box.

TheIrishGrover

You'll probably have to retrain. Something a bit more.... focused. I would imagine that, unless you own the company, working behind the scenes in media is always going to be relatively poorly paid. This is probably a HUGE (and inaccurate) generalisation but it seems to be a young-person's job and heavily leaning towards younger women (Mid-late 20s) unless, as said, you own the company. I apologise if this is an offensive generalisation (It was not meant to cause offense). Seems to be more about the "glamour" and high-visibility of such a job. Have you any interest in more technical fields? Maybe a technical field such as computer networking or security. It's never too late to retrain (I went back to college at 38 after losing a job I'd had for 13 years).

You should also cut yourself a bit of a break too. You have mentioned shame etc. You are being WAY too hard on yourself. You are working hard, doing what you can. It's not your fault that property prices have sky-rocketed. It's not your fault that your job is low-paying. have a look at Springboard courses (You can do some of them while being employed).

Is there another field that interests you?

mondeoman72

I'm 50. I went to IT Tallaght at 46. Mature student with nothing. Wiped out in recession.

I'm now on decent money in a world famous company. A new world don't give up.

Do something relevant to real world. I know nothing about arts but what does that train you for? Pm if you wish

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940433#Comment_118940433

So I went into media because I wanted to be a journalist, I used to freelance while in college but knew I could never make a job of it, so PR and marketing seems the best alternative. And yes you are correct about the media. Entry level jobs are unpaid, and then its pretty much 30,000 and under until you become a high level communications manager and jump to 100k. In betweens just don't exist. As well its not easily transferable. I was a client manager for civil service and political clients since that is where I specialised.

To be honest on tech jobs, Ive never had any interest in science or technology or computers or really anything with numbers. My interests and skills have always been around literature, politics and writing. I'm looking at tech because thats the prevailing winds but like not everyone can be a software developer. What are the rest of us supposed to do?

If it is the case that only tech jobs are going to pay expect to see a massive tension in society between insiders and outsiders, which is starting already.

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940426#Comment_118940426

Never mind the housing market! Who gives a crap?!

Get that visa and really enjoy it, so as much travel as you can while there, and afterwards, do more travel to other places. There is way more to life then owning a house and being tied down for 30ish years by debt.

See the world, broaden your horizons, enjoy life!

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058242144/30-year-old-arts-graduate-struggling-to-get-by

I cant afford to buy a house and this makes me feel subhuman in this country.

-

I want no hand outs, my political instincts are conservative (hate long term welfare, dislike how having a child is seen as a life choice) I just want a normal standard of living with a basic car, a secure home and enough disposable income to have a pint on a Saturday night. Why does that seem out of my reach?

How do I not feel inferior for my wages and being a renter?

Your issue isn’t that you can’t afford to buy property, or that you can’t afford a car, or that you made some education and career choices which didn’t turn out to lead to the opportunities you’d envisioned for yourself.

Your fundamental issue is that you can’t afford your political views, which puts you in the same category as the people you yourself see as subhuman.

I don’t have any sort of advice at all, but if your political instincts are conservative, you’ll probably do alright for yourself eventually, once you get over thinking of people in the same position as yourself as subhuman.

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940475#Comment_118940475

I think you might be right. I didn't grow up poor and had the attitude that people are poor due to not working. Now Im struggling and I guess I see its not an individual's fault when they work 40 hour weeks and struggle to pay the bills.

But like most people in Ireland I grew up in a owner occupied home and didn't know people from council or rented housing. So it seems like I have taken a step backwards and f****d up by being in that position. A position I was always ironically told I would be in if I didn't get a good leaving cert and go to college

SuperBowserWorld

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940420#Comment_118940420

People make out IT to be some magical mysterious beast.

It's not.

And by just teaching yourself programming you can figure out if you have a passion for it or not and if you can sustain yourself in the field, and can learn new things yourself.

No dependencies, loads of time, 30 ...

Go go go !

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940500#Comment_118940500

They have more than programming and IT. They have finance/business etc. And some of the IT stuff is aimed more towards Business Analysts or Project Managers etc. Those people are not programming (or often understanding what they are managing)

Or just go and be a teacher. Surely they are on more than the OPs 30k a year and have short fixed hours every day and loads of holidays (that aren't holidays but are holidays depending on what a teacher is arguing at the time)

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940500#Comment_118940500

But why is the answer always "learn to code", what happened to normal office jobs paying decent salaries

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940507#Comment_118940507

Does your job in general pay the type of wage you need to buy a house where you want to live? If it doesn’t, either you do something about getting a job that does, or you look for a cheaper place to live.

Op, you are responsible for your choice of career, and no one owes you a house in Dublin. So make your mind up, either stick, emigrate, change career or look outside Dublin.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940507#Comment_118940507

You could always train up to be a cooper OP. Those fellas used to be well paid as well. Get yourself a job in Guinnesses and be set for life

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940529#Comment_118940529

So will the economy in the future basically be finance, solicitors, IT people and masses of people on low pay servicing them?

AndrewJRenko

Keep an eye out for comms roles in public bodies. Most would be on publicjobs.ie though some bodies recruit directly themselves.

You’ll find good opportunities for development and additional qualifications.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940449#Comment_118940449

I'm now on decent money in a world famous company. A new world don't give up.

Fair play. I suppose there are niches for everything. That said, you are lucky in some ways because OnlyFans probably didn't even exist when you started

johnboy92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940541#Comment_118940541

I turned down a comms job in the civil service. Starting salary is 26k, goes up to 40k after 10 years. Not enough to buy a house with and by then Id be 40 and it would be nearly too late.

I got offered to go for the role because I used to do media analysis for all civil service accounts and was on first name terms with all the comms managers

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940537#Comment_118940537

It's up to you what you want to do. Money isn't the be all and end all. You have choices.