Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

lucernarian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513325#Comment_120513325

It's not completely normal and part of normal urban development to implement one-way systems on major arterial routes and then do the same thing at the same time on the diversionary route.

Would be nice if we could separate legitimate criticism of poor decisions, from the wild and deranged takes we've seen at other times here.

And if most of this project is about water mains replacement, why is it in C&T? Even posting about water issues directly connected with the works is discouraged here.

CoffeeImpala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513325#Comment_120513325

The poster you were replying to lives in Marino. Their mother, as spurious posted, lives in or near North Strand. Picking their mother up to bring her shopping involves driving through the works.

Delivery isn't an option because their mother enjoys the social interaction/excuse to talk to her child of shopping.

It took a few posts for the poster to establish this information.

CatInABox

In fairness, I think that the water works are done now, the rest of it is just the improvements to the area.

I think that people have been using the waterworks as an excuse for the huge amount of works, but I think that the cycle lane and public realm improvements are able to stand on their own, they're a huge improvement to the area both from a transport point of view, and a place making point of view. The Fairview Park verge looks absolutely amazing, such a high quality improvement, and I think people should support these sorts of improvements.

spurious

The waterworks are fine and the cycle lane and improved paving when finished should be great, but taking a bus stop away from such a densely populated area, claiming the reason is 'there is no room' and then replacing it with car parking spaces, is really beyond a joke.

Fancy paving and bushes are one thing but removing a bus stop is a major disimprovement for the people who will have had to bear the brunt of the construction for years.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120513761#Comment_120513761

Yeah, that's not great, and is one of the few parts of the project that I'd disagree with, vehemently so when it comes to how they didn't announce it until after the works had started.

bk

"The poster you were replying to lives in Marino. Their mother, as spurious posted, lives in or near North Strand. Picking their mother up to bring her shopping involves driving through the works."

No, that is all wrong. The poster I was replying to is JRant, whose mother lives in Marino and the JRant was dropping her to Lidl/Aldi in North strand. I was pointing out that from Marino it is easy to avoid the works in Fairview. For instance driving from Marino to Lidl Drumcondra is like a 5 or 6 minute drive via Griffith Avenue on the weekend. And many other options.

Spurious then jumped in saying s/he lives in North Strand and thus is in the middle of it. Which is fair enough and absolutely true, but doesn't really have anything to do with the post I was replying to in relation to Marino. Oh and that location in North Strand is like a 1 minute walk from a costcutter store!

As an aside, Boards "new" quoting system sucks and leads to this sort of confusion.

"And if most of this project is about water mains replacement, why is it in C&T? Even posting about water issues directly connected with the works is discouraged here."

I'm not sure where you got that idea, I'm a mod on this forum and would certainly not discourage any conversation about water mains replacement! Such works are usually on roads and as a result often greatly impacts peoples commuting and transport, so very much on topic.

Also no, the works on the pipes aren't finished. I was down at Fairview Park on the weekend and there are still pipes everywhere and works going on with them.

As an aside, these sort of water works will have to happen all over the city over the next few years. Our water and sewage system is ageing quickly and will similarly need replacing. Like it was Griffith Avenues turn just last year. Expect the same throughout the city.

Seth Brundle

I see that the ESB planning on a major cable upgrade project in Dublin in the coming years...

https://www.eirgridgroup.com/the-grid/projects/dublin/

One of the project components will be the replacing of the cable from Poolbeg to Finglas and one proposed route for this is along Alfie Byrne Road CLontarf Road and then up the Malahide Road.

I take it for granted that the cable is currently under where the inbound cycle path runs on the Clontarf Rd?

lucernarian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120514336#Comment_120514336

Yes, the water mains replacement works are a bit more than 50% complete. It seems like each side of the route has 4" ring mains apart from Fairview park itself of course, which has some water mains of regional importance if I remember correctly.

Only a relatively small amount of new pipe has been laid on the western side of the work route, on some of Amiens Street and in Fairview itself.

I posted not too long ago (Easter) about getting photos of brown water in glasses and a bathtub and the comms from DCC and Irish Water was sorely lacking, considering they expected repairs to be completed almost a day later and water in that condition is not just undrinkable, it can foul interior plumbing, cisterns and (although unlikely) central heating. The microbiological safety of such turbid water after a break is also questionable. Such disruption is inevitable over the course of a big project, but having a rush on the local supermarkets for usable water should not be normalised or chalked down to "a bit of muddy water", especially given the complete lack of advice or management of the outage by Irish Water.

As an aside, that costcutter on north Strand is not something useful above any other small convenience store, it's not exactly a one stop shop for everything a pensioner wants or needs or can afford.

More on topic, the traffic sequence at East Wall Road / North Strand Road / Poplar Row has been changed since East Wall Road reopened. It has a somewhat longer pedestrian crossing sequence, especially good for Fairview Park to the fire station, but the length of the green light for car traffic on East Wall Road has been significantly shortened. There are routinely traffic queues now outside of peak times, and I recently timed a 53 bus from the railway bridge to the lights. It took almost 10 minutes to clear the junction. Some change is necessary there.

Jayuu

Meant to add these last week. They are from just beyond bus stop 516 on the North Strand road and Newcommen Bridge.

Would seem to leave a very small footpath. I'm assuming the cycle path will have to end at the bridge given the amount of space. Also the road is narrower after the bridge so I must check to see if there are markings beyond the bridge.

bk

"Would seem to leave a very small footpath. I'm assuming the cycle path will have to end at the bridge given the amount of space. Also the road is narrower after the bridge so I must check to see if there are markings beyond the bridge."

Per the plans, the cyclepath will continue over the bridge. It will replace the footpath on the siouth side of the bridge. Pedestrians will then use the new footbridge next to the bridge.

Plans here if you want to check out the rest, NOTE BIG PDF:

https://www.dublincity.ie/sites/default/files/2023-03/C2CC%20GA%20Combined.pdf

Frank Bullitt

How is this all looking these days? (I live in Canada)

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610022#Comment_120610022

Chaos, both sides of the road now. God help any cyclist trying to navigate the road surface, it’s a complete mess.

But we have to look on the bright side apparently. Whenever I’m stuck in traffic on Griffith Avenue due to the amalgamation of lanes to make way for the cycle lanes. I look at those cycle lanes and really believe that one day I’ll see a cyclist using them.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610830#Comment_120610830

We thank you for your service!

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610830#Comment_120610830

Tis a bit hyperbolic, but I would agree that it's not ideal for cyclists. Outbound, right before the Howth Road turn, the road is reduced to a narrow one lane, which is for all vehicle types, buses, cars, bikes. That part is a little hairy at times, there's people out there that just don't know how to drive behind bikes, and cyclists that don't know how to take the lane properly.

These were taken last weekend from the foot bridge, showing the progress of the water main works on the outbound side. Hopefully they'll start work on the footpath works soon, at least in some areas. Right now the people and businesses along here are getting the worst of the works without any sign of improvement.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610830#Comment_120610830

You aren't stuck in traffic because of a cycle lane, you are stuck in traffic because yourself and a number of other individuals made the conscious decision to drive your car for that particular journey.

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610830#Comment_120610830

That's odd. I am on Griffith Avenue every day, either on foot, bike or in car. I see plenty of cyclists using the cycle lanes. And yes, I see cyclists and indeed motorists driving on the pedestrian footpath as well - not just entering and exiting driveways (which is of course understandable) but sometimes driving along for some time before exiting onto the road. Delivery vans also regularly blocking footpath, rather than stopping on the road. It can be chaos alright. I suppose things will probably improve though when the North Strand and Fairview are fully reopened as some of the Griffith Ave traffic is probably diversionary.

Pawwed Rig

Another morning where yellow box turning from Howth Road into Fairview was blocked by multiple vehicles causing back ups in both directions.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120512754#Comment_120512754

we don't focus on this benefit of congestion, to be fair. congestion, it brings people together. you can see how much more relaxed people dealing with congested traffic are, it's a social lubricant.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120610830#Comment_120610830

FYI there was always a cycle path on Griffith Avenue, it was just a painted one and entitled motorists would simply park or drive in it, it was unusable as a cycle lane before. Now they are just forcing those entitled motorists out of the cycle path, though still far from perfect.

Murph_D is correct above, I still see insane motorists and delivery drivers drive as much as 50+ meters along the footpath as kids are walking home from school on Griffith Avenue! I've seen a car drive right over the concrete curb of the cycle lane and park right in the middle of the cycle lane!

Gloomtastic!

I’m on Griffith Avenue most days. The majority of cyclists I see are in the morning - 90% of them kids going to school. They then return after school. Vast majority use the footpath both times instead of the cycle lanes.

Apart from students, very rarely see any cyclists using it.

Phibsboro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

Just to confirm, its mostly kids and they mostly cycle on the path. But that will hopefully change over the years, probably need the schools (mainly ard scoil) to get involved.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

I walk Griffith Avenue every day (parent) and use the cycle path too. Lots of parents, adults and secondary school kids using the cycle path (though it isn't actually finished yet, missing outside the new apartment buildings). Also a marked increase in parents cycling with younger kids in the cycle path and also a large number of cargo bikes with kids in it too.

I'd say it is more like 60/40 split between younger kids on the footpath versus older folks in the cycle path.

BTW There is actually an official on footpath cycle path between Charlemont and the schools, so the younger kids are supposed to be there.

Overall there is a very noticable increase in the number of people cycling on Griffith Avenue, which is pretty remarmkable IMO given that the new cycle path is a pretty poor quality cycle path, imagine how succesful it would be if it was a proper, high quality, wide, two way cycle path!

BTW You just reminded me that two years ago I saw a secondary school student been knocked off their bike while on the old painted cycle path, ambulance needed and everything!

A proper cycle path on Griffith Avenue is long overdue.

DoraDelite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

I'm on it most days either walking or cycling outside of school times. Given I'm constantly hearing "nobody is using it" from people with a windscreen view of it, I decided to count the cyclists when I walked it last Friday evening around 5:45pm (the section between Mobhi road and Drumcondra road). In that 10 minute walk I counted 21 cyclists and one scooter, all were using the cycle lanes except for two (one was approx an 8-9 year old girl cycling slowly with a parent). Perpetuating the "nobody is using it" myth just serves to rile up those that are looking for any excuse to be hostile to cyclists. It's completely irresponsible, spend some time in the area outside of your car if you want a more accurate picture of the area.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611591#Comment_120611591

It's a patch work mess along one of the widest avenue's in north Dublin.. probably as well there's not a high usage as it's design isn't suitable for that..

Though I would say that any attempt to bring it up to European standards will be fought against tooth and nail by the local residents...

bk

"It's a patch work mess along one of the widest avenue's in north Dublin.. probably as well there's not a high usage as it's design isn't suitable for that.."

Yes, the design certainly isn't good enough for young kids to safely cycle on. Far too narrow, drainage grates that protrude half into the cycle lane, leaves and debris in the cycle lane and even flooded in areas when it rains! And then there are cars parked next too it, with doors being opened into the cycle lane and kids running across it. It is quiet chaotic in the mornings around the schools.

"Though I would say that any attempt to bring it up to European standards will be fought against tooth and nail by the local residents..."

The most disappointing thing about it, is it could have been done much better without much difference for local residents or much extra cost IMO.

A two way cycle lane one one side of the road, rather then single lane both sides, would have meant a much better and safer cycle lane, with basically no difference to the space available to cars or any real difference to local residents.

Also put the onstreet parking on the other side of the road from the schools, so no interaction between the cars and the cycle path.

Doing the above would take it from like a D grade cycle path to say about a B grade one.

I really don't get it, they can clearly do two way bike lanes in the south side of the City under DLR council, but DCC can't do the same on one of the widest streets in Dublin!

Griffith Avenue could have been a glowing example of a good quality cycle lane with little effort, instead it has shown DCC to be completely incompetent at building cycle lanes.

CatInABox

Back in Fairview, that new coffee shop by the old jewellers is going great guns. A queue inside, and people sitting at tables outside. Wouldn't have thought that it'd be a place to sit myself, but every seat was taken. Great news.

Tenzor07

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612007#Comment_120612007

"instead it has shown DCC to be completely incompetent at building cycle lanes."

Nah, I would say it's more likely that it was an exercise in appeasing the local residents who were opposed to a cycle path being installed along "their road" and DCC copied the "least effort" possible design which pleases neither the local residents or people who cycle the road..

Even driving the road isn't great the way the car parking is dotted along the road sticking out and only protected by a couple of plastic reflective posts...

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612453#Comment_120612453

Nope, I've been watching it closely, most of the issues are from DCC. The project has been going on for more then 3 years now and still isn't finished. The stop and starting seem to have little to do with residents feedback, which hasn't made any real material difference to the desgin of the cycle lane, just very minor alternations.

The whole thing started at the start of COVID and it was supposed to be a quick temporary job, yet years later and even those temporary measures haven't been completed!

All the docs on it over the years are all up on the DCC site to see. It was actually even worse designed at the start, if you can believe that.

Like the most recent changes were put up almost a year ago, but they still haven't actually done the work on the ground!

It is a real shambles and EXTREMELY poor showing by DCC.

BTW It looks like they might be getting ready to finish the missing section. Folks with hiviz and clipboards were standing around it today. Also they appear to be working outside the new apartments today, I'm not sure to finish the traffic lights or to finish the bike lane, hopefully both.

Like it has been really crazy how bad the whole project has gone. I don't know what the issue was, it really shouldn't have taken more then a couple of weeks to put down those stupid plastic bollards along the length of Griffith Avenue, then followed up with the kerbing and junction changes. I guess there most of been issues with lack and budget or staff, I can't think of any reason why it should take so long to build such a relatively poor cycle lane.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120611517#Comment_120611517

Wouldn't blame them, its not an actually usable cycle lane. It's too narrow, full of drains, litter and rotting leaves for half the year. Better off on the car lane sadly. There's hardly any usable cycle lane in Dublin and no cycle friendly junctions.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120612880#Comment_120612880

Yeah, it's been a total joke. It's been dangerous to drive along it too, as without warning you're swapping from unfinished to finished areas, meaning that you can suddenly be driving right in the cycle lane. It's better now that they've done more of it, but I couldn't believe that someone would sign off on leaving it like that for so long. They didn't even put up any signs to warn people, the complete opposite of the usual DCC approach.