Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

d51984

One of them surfaces is only a temporary one, now dont ask me which one. 😂. It could be the sandy coloured one as I have noticed parts of it blowing out on the road so there's sandy coloured bits all over the road.

crushproof

I thought the Griffith Avenue path was going to be separated from the road? Or a least have bollards as protection.

Thelonious Monk

those metal bollards with the chains to keep motorists off footpaths/grass are the kind of thing i fantasise about. cars are just dumped everywhere where i live, every single footpath, and grass verges destroyed everywhere. sigh.

Pawwed Rig

They put that sandy material on the ramp up to Newcomen Bridge for some reason aswell

Zebra3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468988#Comment_120468988

They’re disgusting. Four penalty points plus fine every time someone parks on grass or footpath would sort that out.

Politicians don’t want to upset their voters that break the law tho.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120468969#Comment_120468969

Roughly half the length of bike lane on Griffith Avenue has extruded concrete curb to separate the bike lane from the road.

The section shown in the pictures above is I believe a temporary job that they rushed into place after bad press DCC received a few weeks ago. I assume the concrete curb will come later.

The whole thing is a mess, roughly a quarter of the bike lane has the concrete curb and is "painted", another quarter has concrete crub, but no paint, there is then a section of a few hundred meters with no bike lane at all !! and now the latest section in the above pictures, painted two different colours and no concrete curb.

Oh and the contrete curb isn't continous, obviously there are breaks in it for entrances to houses car parking, but worse, they have no concrete curb in sections where there is on-street parking.

Oh and the section by the schools is a death trap in the mornings with car doors opening into the bike lane and school kids in it due to the onstreet parking being stupidly right next to the bike lane!

And it has only taken more then three years (so far) to create this rubbish!

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120470513#Comment_120470513

By 'curb', do you mean kerb? It's certainly a mess, and that's before even mentioning the black and white plastic 'bollards'/wands that were removed but the kerb attachment for holding them remains.

But this is not the Clontarf to CC. 😉

magicbastarder

they had the sandy coloured covering on collins avenue, and had to redo it - i assume due to bad application rather than substandard material. from what i saw of it, it suggested it's laid down in rolls like roofing felt, and the one on collins avenue was lifting in multiple places.

Citizen Six

Had the chance to cycle the full length along the park today.

Had space to overtake a cyclist which was grand.

Two lads walking on it close to the bus stop by the playground area.

When I got close to the end I was almost hit by a cyclist joining the path to cycle in the wrong direction.

lucernarian

A water main issue somewhere around North Strand on Easter Monday resulted in contaminated water at least in Fairview, saw photos of muddy water in glasses and sinks. But looking at Irish Water and DCC online, they gave a restore time of 6am on Tuesday and when I passed through North Strand on Monday, I saw no burst water main or repair crews.

I was asked about the condition of the water, if it was safe after boiling, suitable for washing/flushing toilet or should just not be let into the pipes/tanks of your home whatsoever. I had no clue, except I know I wouldn't want muddy water going into my attic tank.

Considering the importance of the water main replacement in this project, is this the typical extent of Irish Water comms when a serious issue crops up?

Murph_D

A bit of muddy water after water main works is a common thing and I wouldn't worry enough about it to post on a transportation thread.

Gloomtastic!

School holidays are over so the traffic returns. Bloody teachers! 😂

magicbastarder

i've often wondered has anyone ever tried to gauge how much of the upsurge in traffic as the schools go back, is from people returning to work after taking a break to coincide with the kid's holidays?

i.e. people who aren't doing a school run, but who also weren't commuting to work over easter because they were also on leave during that period.

loyatemu

families take holidays when the schools are off; teachers are also off, universities/colleges are either off at Easter or winding down for the exams. Even if you have no connection to education, so many people take the school holiday periods off that it's difficult to get much work done in some companies so you might as well take some days off then as well to extend the long weekend. It's a domino effect.

It also probably shows that it doesn't take a huge reduction in traffic for the roads to move freely.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490487#Comment_120490487

Related to the topic in hand (if not directly)

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2023/0418/1377555-cabinet/

Congestion charges?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490487#Comment_120490487

It also probably shows that it doesn't take a huge reduction in traffic for the roads to move freely.

yeah, i'd say traffic is exceptionally 'inelastic' once you hit a certain level - for example, if a set of lights at a junction will typically allow say 8 cars through on a cycle, no traffic will build up at the junction if 8 or fewer cars arrive on each cycle. but when you get to 10 cars, say, all of a sudden you'll start to get a buildup. congestion is not linear with traffic volume.

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490590#Comment_120490590

Or emission charges? So basically congestion charges only for petrol and diesel vehicles.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490864#Comment_120490864

Do electric vehicles not contribute to congestion?

bk

Do both. London actually has two charges. A congestion charge of £15 per day for all cars (including EV's) and then an extra £12.50 charge if your car isn't a low emissions vehicles (e.g. Euro 6 for Diesels).

Their goal is two fold. Both reduce the amount of congestion and also reduce the amount of pollution from cars that do continue to drive in (which has the knock on effect of promoting newer, more efficient cars like EVs).

loyatemu

Congestion charge requires a lot of infrastructure though, cameras, number plate recognition, call centre etc. It seems an expensive way to crack a nut. Just reallocate road space to active travel and public transport, block off through-routes, remove parking (and levy private parking). The congestion will take care of itself eventually.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491858#Comment_120491858

If past experience is anything to go by a congestion charge will be introduced but there will be no resources allocated to enforce it

AngryLips

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120490927#Comment_120490927

I think the rationale for an emissions charge is that it would be politically more palatable (you're not outright creating a barrier for all cars, you're just incentivising certain types of cars). Of course, once you get people used to emission charges it would be a much easier sell to introduce a flat congestion charge.

bk

"Congestion charge requires a lot of infrastructure though, cameras, number plate recognition, call centre etc. It seems an expensive way to crack a nut."

This tech really isn't expensive or difficult any more. I haven't looked at the costs of Londons setup, but I did look at Belfast bus lane cameras. I forget the exact figures, but it costs them something like a couple tens of thousands per year to install and operate, while bringing in something like 4 million in fines per year. More then easily paid for itself.

"Just reallocate road space to active travel and public transport, block off through-routes, remove parking (and levy private parking). The congestion will take care of itself eventually"

This is the alternative option, perhaps even completely ban cars in the core city center. It is certainly fairer as it equally effects all, while congestion charging mostly impact those with less money, while the wealtiest folks can continue to drive in and now have even less traffic in front of them. This is probably the strongest argument against congestion. On the other hand, congestion charging can help fund better public transport if ring fenced for that.

"If past experience is anything to go by a congestion charge will be introduced but there will be no resources allocated to enforce it"

I don't see why that would be the case, the M50 toll is definitely well resourced and enforced, as is the London congestion charging. These systems earn a lot of money for a city, so typically enforcement is well resourced.

cgcsb

It would only take a handful of car bans on city centre streets to dramatically cut congestion. A new levy on multi stories and remove the public parking within the core area.

Expect an overly complex solution that attempts to appease every lobbyist and achieve nothing at all and will be abandoned after a week. Irish solutions.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120491858#Comment_120491858

They've allocated north strand to public transport and bikes. Doesn't stop private cars from taking advantage though. And it slows down busses on that stretch. That's what annoys me most as a driver, when other motorists think it's ok to take advantage of the other motorists who obey traffic rules.

Cameras and number plate recognition isn't that expensive, and would pay for itself in no time.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120492863#Comment_120492863

Not possible, tried many times. There's large camera equipment on Blackhall place set up to just keep motorists from driving through red lights and getting themselves crushed by the luas, purely a mercy mission for slow learning motorists, and that's not been used once, its sitting idle 10 years now. So odds of similar measures aimed at protecting the journey times of public transport being allowed by the powers that be is a non runner.

Of course it's physically possible but the people you're talking about are semi ferral and have the ears of TDs, they don't want a fine for breaking the law.

It all comes back to the fact that we have an almost totally permissive society, there's no consequences for anything and most people have grown up in a consequence free culture. Even extremely violent offenders are permitted to live freely in the community and are even heavily subsidised.

There's lots of reasons for this, lots of people blame it on an extreme reaction to authoritarian regimes of the past like the British and the Vatican but that's where we are now and change doesn't seem to be coming.

bk

While they’re maybe political interference from it happening in the first place. If it is actually installed and rolled out, then it will absolutely be enforced, just like the M50 toll, speed camera vans and parking enforcement all are well enforced.

There would likely be a private company involved in operating it and they will definitely want their cut of the fines for operating it. It would also be very much in the interest of the NTA if the fines and ring fenced to help pay for public transport.

The Blackhall camera only failed because it was just a rubbish single camera trial and worse, it was operated by the Gardai who had zero interest in operating it.

As long as you can get the politicians to change the law to give the NTA the power to operate it, it will work well. Sure, people will moan, just like they did about the M50 toll, but in the end they will pay up.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120499673#Comment_120499673

You're finally getting it!

No Government that contains FF or FG will pass a congestion charge for Dublin ahead of the opening of the Metro and Dart+, you heard that explicitly from Varadkar only two days ago. They already nixed the multi-point tolling on the M50.

And considering Sinn Féin are even more populist than either FF or FG, theres even less chance that a Government with them in it would do it either.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120500289#Comment_120500289

I wouldn't be fussed about bringing in congestion charging to be honest, restricting cars on through routes and removing parking has proven to be more effective.

If the current rules on the current bus and cycle lane network were to be enforced I'd actually be happy enough with that tbh. As it stands we have the NTA applying for planning to put in a series of bus gates, bus lanes and other bus priority measures that it has no real means of implementing.

In theory Cork's Patrick St has an afternoon car ban but that's not observed, dublin's 24hr North quays bus lane is also not observed. These things could really improve public transport over night if they were enforced.

Thelonious Monk

I actually thought they were improving bus lanes in Fairview too under this project. Will there be any difference? I assume on the way out of town side it will just be packed with cars stopping and pulling over and parking etc. in the bus lane? Seems like a missed opportunity, I saw a video the other day of this Van Ness bus lane in San Francisco. It's almost like having a metro running when bus lanes like that are implemented properly. I also think Bus Connects is a waste of money because all they're really doing is widening some roads for all road users.