Clontarf to City Centre Cycle & Bus Priority Project discussion (renamed)

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120675164#Comment_120675164

That other large pipe that you can see in the trench is a gas pipe. That must be the main difficulty there, you definitely don't want to hit that, so all the works are happening around that pipe. That's why the water pipe is so deep.

I was actually surprised that the gas pipe wasn't deeper, seems like you scratch the road and you'd be seeing the pipe.

CatInABox

People on here have complained about how the Griffith Avenue cycle lanes are badly done, now's your chance to complain about a new cycle lane going in. They're planning to do Gracefield Road to Vernon Avenue, and it's the exact same stuff, single lane on each side, loads of poles, etc.

Have your say here:

https://twitter.com/DubCityCouncil/status/1666077744592203776

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120683078#Comment_120683078

In situations like this, where there are houses along both sides of the road, single lanes on each side is probably the best option as putting them on one side would bring huge opposition from residents on that side.

magicbastarder

i suspect griffith avenue was a quick fix - putting contra flow cycle lanes on one side of the road would have meant re-engineering the road much more, as you'd have to change traffic lights and sequences, and approaches to junctions.

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120693355#Comment_120693355

A quick fix that's taken a few years. 😀

bk

Quick fix! .... 3 and a half years and counting!

"In situations like this, where there are houses along both sides of the road, single lanes on each side is probably the best option as putting them on one side would bring huge opposition from residents on that side."

But Dun Laoghaire County Council have done exactly this on the same types of roads in the south of the city with no issues.

bk

BTW I've had a pretty mind blowing experience this past two days, both mornings I've seen like a queue of almost 20 cyclists pass along the cycle lane on Griffith Avenue pretty much back to back in 30 seconds! And not school kids either, looked like students/young adults.

While that isn't unusual in the core city Center, I've never seen it before on Griffith Avenue!

In a 10 minute walk to school, I'd say I was seeing more then 50 cyclists and escooters, like a real constant flow. Of course the nice weather is helping, I suspect many fair weather cyclists, but still it is crazy successful.

Unfortunately it also shows that the cycle lane isn't fit for purpose and is already over capacity. When the 20 cyclists passed, half of them had to mount the footpath to get around slower cyclists in the narrow cycle lane! As you can see below.

I'm seriously impressed, it shows what demand there is for cycling, even a poor cycle lane can attract such usage.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120693624#Comment_120693624

yep, a 'sure we've dealt with that, on to the next one' approach.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120693624#Comment_120693624

A few years is quick by Irish standards

Citizen Six

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120693755#Comment_120693755

I'd have thought it easier to use the road to go around slower cyclists. That's what I do anyway.

magicbastarder

might be easier to bail out of the cycle path by going left rather than by weaving through the wands? and people might feel safer doing it anyway.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695031#Comment_120695031

Some do, but at some places it is hard to do as there are cars parked on the outside of the cycle lane that block it from easily getting in and out of. In the above case you would cycle in front of a car coming from behind you, as they are all coming from a junction where the lights just turned green, so definitely some cars coming in the road too. The junctions have little bicycle traffic lights that turn green a second or two before the car traffic light turns green, too allow the cyclist to get a head start, but in this case it means the cyclist would be waiving in front of a car coming in a second. Not really safe.

As I mentioned, the design isn’t fit for purpose, no space to overtake slower cyclists (young kids), so people have to pop in and out of the cycle lane. A pretty dangerous thing to do and a situation easily avoided had I been a wider two way bike lane.

bk

Thinking about it, a dedicated cycle lane like this, is going to attract the type of relatively inexperienced cyclists who wouldn’t feel comfortable swerving into a road way, in front of oncoming cars.

ArmaniJeanss

I'm a cyclist, but don't really consider that being slowed down by another slow-moving cyclist ahead of me is actually a sign of a design flaw. I don't have any inherent right to have a cycle lane that allows me go unimpeded at my own maximum speed. Slow down, slot in behind, tut a bit to yourself, and overtake when it becomes safe to do so - a bit like regular road traffic on a single lane road.

Tarabuses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695296#Comment_120695296

You are a considerate cyclist. Many seem to forget that the footpath is for pedestrians.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695327#Comment_120695327

I would say this is a fine wide footpath, with plenty of space for all, plus a little further up the street there is actually an official cycle path on the footpath. Of course if they built a proper cycle path, non of this would be necessary.

"I'm a cyclist, but don't really consider that being slowed down by another slow-moving cyclist ahead of me is actually a sign of a design flaw. I don't have any inherent right to have a cycle lane that allows me go unimpeded at my own maximum speed. Slow down, slot in behind, tut a bit to yourself, and overtake when it becomes safe to do so - a bit like regular road traffic on a single lane road."

No one is talking about maximum speed here, these people were mostly women on Dutch style commuter bikes, that don't go much faster then 15km/h. Non of them were cycling fast!

You really can't cycle fast on this cycle lane, it is too narrow, with too many junctions and cars parked next to it, with doors opening into the cycle lane.

The issue is that little kids (like 7 or 8) or also using this cycle lane to cycle to school. It isn't shown in the above picture, but the reason for the delay was there was a little boy of around 8 and his dad cycling in front of this group at no more then 5km/h.

Asking people to slow down that much is silly, as it would make cycling pointless.

BTW not that little kids shouldn't be using this cycle path, the whole stated purpose of this cycle path was to build a safe cycle path for children to cycle to school and to imrpove the road safety around the three schools which was and still is dreadful. I'd argue that is has failed miserably at all that.

Tarabuses

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695342#Comment_120695342

Maybe fine and wide, but for pedestrians. What happens further up the street is a cycle path if seperated from the footpath.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695352#Comment_120695352

No, further up the street there is a cycle path literally painted on half the footpath. Been there for 20+ years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120695327#Comment_120695327

You're right I see cars there all the time!

lucernarian

Recently there's been more posts about Griffith Avenue than about North Strand Road / Fairview.

Has there been any update given about completion dates? It seems that with much of one side of the route incomplete, and barely any of the other side started, that a completion date of December 2023 is unrealistic.

Gloomtastic!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697529#Comment_120697529

Before we leave Griffith Avenue, let’s have a little rant about traffic lights.

They’ve just installed/turned on a set of lights at the entrance to Griffith Woods. Cars have been coming and going from that estate for the last year or so with no issues. No, someone in DCC has shares in a traffic light company and now we have more delays as we wait for lights to change for non existent traffic. 🙄

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697544#Comment_120697544

Doubt that the driver factor was car traffic in and out, but more the large amount of people that live in there that might want to cross the road.

CatInABox

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697529#Comment_120697529

Nothing so far, but as far as I know, it's proceeding to schedule. The inbound side is very close to being complete, with elements already open.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697544#Comment_120697544

God, yes, it is so stupid! The lights also take ages, like about 5 minutes, for the pedestrian crossing to go green. It is so bad, that after the first day or two everyone walking East - West along Griffith Avenue is now ignoring them and just crossing even on pedestrian red, using them more like a zebra crossing.

It really is a perfect example of how DCC are ignoring the NTA guidelines that pedestrians should have priority.

Fair enough North - South, but the East - West arm really should be a zebra crossing or the pedestrian crossing should default to green and only change when a car aprroaches (like in the Netherlands).

What is stupid just like 200 meters away you have the crossings at Calderwood Road and Griffith Walk, actual proper road junctions entering Griffith Avenue and yet there are no traffic lights or zebra crossings at this junction, you are just expected to look out for cars and use your own judgement. Which is fine, I'm not saying these should change, but this is a busier junction then Griffith Woods, so it shows that all this was unnecessary.

Really for me this shows that we need to change the laws around zebra crossings, both the Griffith Wood and Calderwood Road junctions should just be simple raised zebra crossings, with no flashing lights necessary.

"Doubt that the driver factor was car traffic in and out, but more the large amount of people that live in there that might want to cross the road."

Then is fails miserably at that, as it takes like 5 minutes for the pedestrian crossing to go green.

Thelonious Monk

It looks like they've made no progress really around the fire station and Annesley Bridge, I can't see the route into town finished any time soon

bk

On Griffith Avenue, thinking about it, I don't know why they felt that they had to put an island with unnecessary extra traffic lights on the North - South arm in front of the apartments. I don't understand why they needed to over build it like this?

Like there are two other north - south traffic controlled junctions on either side of it (by Charlemont Estate and by the schools) and neither of these have this overbuilt island, they are just simple straight across light controlled pedestrian crossings.

bk

LMAO, I had totally forgot, that just across the road from this junction, like literally 5 meters away, there is actually one of those unofficial, raised, "zebra crossings" going East to West entering into Marino:

• Right hand of the picture is an unofficial zebra crossing, while on the left hand side you can see the new unnecessary junction.

On Griffith Avenue, there are like a dozen of these sort of unofficial zebra crossings, been there for years and work perfectly fine. I really don't know why they couldn't have done the same East to West outside of Griffith Woods.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120697988#Comment_120697988

I’m guessing that each junction was built according to DCCs requirements at the time. The older ones didn’t need traffic lights but some policy has changed since then. Maybe it’s an attempt to ensure blind people can cross safely, combined with DCCs long-standing dislike of zebra crossings. Older junctions will stay the way they are because no policy is going to be retroactive, the cost implications of that would be insane.

Pete_Cavan

I'd say it's just a case of DCC loving traffic lights and there was a chance to make the developer pay for a new set here, so...

cgcsb

Would have been great if we could have had the clongriffin cbc works ramping up as this was winding down. Unfortunately that wasn't to be. 14 months and no oral hearing date for the first cbc.