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sick of propping up non performing farms

  • 23-03-2022 3:04pm
    Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭ abnormalnorman

    every year its the same story - farmers are loosing money, and we need to support them.

    just saw this headline now (and haven't read it , sorry), but, why do we (tax payers) need to keep bailing out the farmers every time something doesn't go their way??

    if a farm isn't making profit, enough to withstand the never-ending problems of the world (wet weather, dry weather, war, covid, inflation, etc etc etc ) - then the farmer needs to re-organise, re-establish his/her enterprise to make it more sustainable, without support from everyone else. Somehow they can still afford to buy tractors worth 30k, when a tractor worth 10k will do the same job.

    Its the construction industry that are suffering the most in todays climate - some who are stuck in a contract to finish buildings that they priced maybe 2 years ago! No one on about a "fast delivery of money into their pockets".

    So my question before I get banned from boards - d you agree with above statement? Yes / No poll.

    Post edited by greysides on



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,586 ✭✭✭ Allinall


  • Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭ abnormalnorman

    so a farmer thats loosing money daily on his farm, should just plough on?? "keep the show on the road" - because that's all it is if its not making profit - a big show for the neighbours to be looking at, while its kept propped by government handouts and tax payers money

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  • Registered Users Posts: 420 ✭✭ abnormalnorman

  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭

    Its the EU mostly not Irish taxpayer that make the payments to farmers

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,629 ✭✭✭ Ubbquittious

    The supermarkets are the greatest winners from farm subsidies. Follow the supply chain and see how much the price rises between the farm and the shelf in the supermarkets.

    and the way things are set up now the supermarket can't lose. People are entrenched in their habits, local markets have been all but eradicated and there are EU rules to make life awkward for those wishing to bypass the supply chain. Even back in 1995 the local shopkeeper here would ask people if they wanted "gugs" because she wasn't officially allowed to sell them anymore.

    Farm subsidies end up in the pockets of Mr. Dunne/Aldi & Lord Tesco so they can buy more self-checkout machines and a new superyacht for themselves

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  • Registered Users Posts: 849 ✭✭✭ Easten

    Farmers here are very good at lobbying Government, the construction Industry not so good, I'd even go further and say the Construction Industry has a poor reputation and is goes through too many cycles of boom and bust along with all the price gowging and Tax payer bailouts along with it. I'm still paying USC from the last Banking/Building bailout. It's a hard penal Tax hitting the average Joe for an extra €70/week on average.

    But you do have a point that farmers are always moaning about prices and costs etc yet there has been a boom in land prices, New buildings/expansion and new Tractors and Machinery over the last few years. The amount of money some of these farms are on the hook for is staggering. Let's just hope Interest rates don't rise too much or there could be trouble ahead

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,755 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    life and markets are not as simply as this, subsidisation is common practice all over the world, in many sectors, including in agriculture, without which, we simply wouldnt survive, the idea of efficient markets is simply a myth. what has occurred has been our modern approach to production, we re simply over producing, and in turn squeezing the life out of many producers, loading them with debt, and hammering every aspect of their business, so much so, returns are poor, while their produce is sold at next to nothing, hence the subsides......

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,755 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    again, this is one of the main conundrums, increasing prices will more than likely cause inflation, causing an increase in pay, causing.....

    its a potential feedback loop, we ve shafted ourselves, with modern economics

  • Registered Users Posts: 26,755 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78

    yes people want these things, but many simply need them, as the cost of living is sky rocketing, our reality is far more complex than just people wanting their wants.....

  • Registered Users Posts: 16,597 ✭✭✭✭ bucketybuck

    A "Bailout" implies a one off support in a time of need, not this eternal propping up of unprofitable businesses.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,688 ✭✭✭ Kevhog1988

    Any decent construction contract has a clause for inflation price rises.

  • Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭ GNWoodd

    They wouldn’t be unprofitable if consumers paid a proper price for their food.

    In all honesty do a significant percentage of people not understand that ?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,597 ✭✭✭✭ bucketybuck

    People keep repeating that as if we don't already know it, and also as if it addresses the actual point at hand, but it doesn't.

    I'm paying for this food either way so I have no specific issue with food prices rising in line with a change to the business model. People will pay the market price for anything, whatever that might be.

    You have an industry that encourages people to basically have a shell company doing just enough so that it can receive support payments, that is a broken business model. If doing something about it means higher prices at the till then so be it.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,597 ✭✭✭ jaymla627

    The large majority of the population don't to be honest, but their all about to get a crash course in food inflation pretty shortly, the sense of dread I have for 2023 and food security worldwide and the geo-political fallout from it is frightening

  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ bunderoon

    Find out WHY the are loosing money the last 20-30 years and then you'll have your answer.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭ thefallingman

    It's losing money not loosing money good god, we need our farmers though but any help should be done correctly

  • Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭ GNWoodd

    I assume that what you are saying ‘by either way ‘ is your paying by both taxation and product price . The sum of both is still not sufficient . This is the reason that a lot of farmers are reducing stock numbers/ inputs and leaving the land barely ticking over .

    The price received for most farm produce doesn’t cover the cost of production. Adding in the subsidies barely makes it worthwhile.

    It is a perverted system that has become acceptable to all. The only way to have a true market is to get rid of farm subsidies and let food find its own price .

    No government will ever allow that to happen .

  • Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭ bunderoon

    A typo, good god.....

    And you forgot your full stop. Good god......

  • Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭

    Parts of the farming business are now being pushed towards paid environmental schemes instead of food production so it's not a broken business model as the environment is now the business and what is required by the state or EU.

    Post edited by on

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This discussion has been closed.