sick of propping up non performing farms

abnormalnorman

every year its the same story - farmers are loosing money, and we need to support them.

just saw this headline now (and haven't read it , sorry), but, why do we (tax payers) need to keep bailing out the farmers every time something doesn't go their way??

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/agri-business/i-hope-there-can-be-a-fast-delivery-of-money-into-farmers-pockets-new-aca-president-noel-feeney-on-cap-and-other-challenges-41472174.html

if a farm isn't making profit, enough to withstand the never-ending problems of the world (wet weather, dry weather, war, covid, inflation, etc etc etc ) - then the farmer needs to re-organise, re-establish his/her enterprise to make it more sustainable, without support from everyone else. Somehow they can still afford to buy tractors worth 30k, when a tractor worth 10k will do the same job.

Its the construction industry that are suffering the most in todays climate - some who are stuck in a contract to finish buildings that they priced maybe 2 years ago! No one on about a "fast delivery of money into their pockets".

So my question before I get banned from boards - d you agree with above statement? Yes / No poll.

Allinall

No.

Conversations 3

People need to start paying a proper price for their food.

Then we'll see how much you want the CAP back.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823821#Comment_118823821

Pay for it directly on the food or pay it indirectly through taxes, either way I'm paying for it.

Doesn't address the point though, in any other industry a business either makes money or it fails, yet in this industry we continue to prop up loss making enterprises. Read the farm forum here and you see lots of lads declaring their intention to keep just enough stock to get the "payments". What sort of warped industry model is that?

epfff

No

People want and governments need bellow cost of production food in current economic system.

At current rates of support you are going to see people die from starvation inparts of Europe within 18 months.

abnormalnorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823811#Comment_118823811

so a farmer thats loosing money daily on his farm, should just plough on?? "keep the show on the road" - because that's all it is if its not making profit - a big show for the neighbours to be looking at, while its kept propped by government handouts and tax payers money

abnormalnorman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823821#Comment_118823821

no problem paying for my food.

epfff

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823941#Comment_118823941

Good for ypu now can you u go and sell that idea of paying cost of production to the other 500 million people in EU so farmers can have a fair market to sell into instead of putting your time into trying to start a keyboard warrior war.

cap.in.hand.

Its the EU mostly not Irish taxpayer that make the payments to farmers

Ubbquittious

The supermarkets are the greatest winners from farm subsidies. Follow the supply chain and see how much the price rises between the farm and the shelf in the supermarkets.

and the way things are set up now the supermarket can't lose. People are entrenched in their habits, local markets have been all but eradicated and there are EU rules to make life awkward for those wishing to bypass the supply chain. Even back in 1995 the local shopkeeper here would ask people if they wanted "gugs" because she wasn't officially allowed to sell them anymore.

Farm subsidies end up in the pockets of Mr. Dunne/Aldi & Lord Tesco so they can buy more self-checkout machines and a new superyacht for themselves

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058238523/sick-of-propping-up-non-performing-farms

When consumers start paying the cost of production plus a margin for their food you can come back and have your poll.

Easten

Farmers here are very good at lobbying Government, the construction Industry not so good, I'd even go further and say the Construction Industry has a poor reputation and is goes through too many cycles of boom and bust along with all the price gowging and Tax payer bailouts along with it. I'm still paying USC from the last Banking/Building bailout. It's a hard penal Tax hitting the average Joe for an extra €70/week on average.

But you do have a point that farmers are always moaning about prices and costs etc yet there has been a boom in land prices, New buildings/expansion and new Tractors and Machinery over the last few years. The amount of money some of these farms are on the hook for is staggering. Let's just hope Interest rates don't rise too much or there could be trouble ahead

Wanderer78

life and markets are not as simply as this, subsidisation is common practice all over the world, in many sectors, including in agriculture, without which, we simply wouldnt survive, the idea of efficient markets is simply a myth. what has occurred has been our modern approach to production, we re simply over producing, and in turn squeezing the life out of many producers, loading them with debt, and hammering every aspect of their business, so much so, returns are poor, while their produce is sold at next to nothing, hence the subsides......

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118823821#Comment_118823821

again, this is one of the main conundrums, increasing prices will more than likely cause inflation, causing an increase in pay, causing.....

its a potential feedback loop, we ve shafted ourselves, with modern economics

Furze99

What does the OP mean by non performing farms? I mean there are some very substantial agricultural businesses in the country, which if you talked to their accountants, might be considered non performing, despite big turnovers and large farm payments. And at the opposite end, small farms and upland farmers turning over the bare minimum. And everything in between. You'd be better off redistributing farm supports towards smaller enterprises and keeping rural Ireland populated. There's a value in having people on the land, managing it in as environmentally way as possible, for all citizens including urban tax payers.

893bet

People don’t want to “bail out farmers”

but they do want the “Aldi super 6” and “5 meats for 20 quid”.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824210#Comment_118824210

yes people want these things, but many simply need them, as the cost of living is sky rocketing, our reality is far more complex than just people wanting their wants.....

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058238523/sick-of-propping-up-non-performing-farms

The construction industry, you mean the industry that offered my friend €1200+ a week cash in hand to barrow cement to two block layers? Without even having to mix said cement.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824210#Comment_118824210

A "Bailout" implies a one off support in a time of need, not this eternal propping up of unprofitable businesses.

Kevhog1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058238523/sick-of-propping-up-non-performing-farms

Any decent construction contract has a clause for inflation price rises.

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824380#Comment_118824380

They wouldn’t be unprofitable if consumers paid a proper price for their food.

In all honesty do a significant percentage of people not understand that ?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824449#Comment_118824449

People keep repeating that as if we don't already know it, and also as if it addresses the actual point at hand, but it doesn't.

I'm paying for this food either way so I have no specific issue with food prices rising in line with a change to the business model. People will pay the market price for anything, whatever that might be.

You have an industry that encourages people to basically have a shell company doing just enough so that it can receive support payments, that is a broken business model. If doing something about it means higher prices at the till then so be it.

jaymla627

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824449#Comment_118824449

The large majority of the population don't to be honest, but their all about to get a crash course in food inflation pretty shortly, the sense of dread I have for 2023 and food security worldwide and the geo-political fallout from it is frightening

White Clover

You're making the assumption that agriculture is the only sector that is subsidized. It's not.

bunderoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058238523/sick-of-propping-up-non-performing-farms

Find out WHY the are loosing money the last 20-30 years and then you'll have your answer.

thefallingman

It's losing money not loosing money good god, we need our farmers though but any help should be done correctly

GNWoodd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824493#Comment_118824493

I assume that what you are saying ‘by either way ‘ is your paying by both taxation and product price . The sum of both is still not sufficient . This is the reason that a lot of farmers are reducing stock numbers/ inputs and leaving the land barely ticking over .

The price received for most farm produce doesn’t cover the cost of production. Adding in the subsidies barely makes it worthwhile.

It is a perverted system that has become acceptable to all. The only way to have a true market is to get rid of farm subsidies and let food find its own price .

No government will ever allow that to happen .

bunderoon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824571#Comment_118824571

A typo, good god.....

And you forgot your full stop. Good god......

cap.in.hand.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824493#Comment_118824493

Parts of the farming business are now being pushed towards paid environmental schemes instead of food production so it's not a broken business model as the environment is now the business and what is required by the state or EU.

JeffKenna

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058238523/sick-of-propping-up-non-performing-farms

I find it hard to believe that you actually want a serious discussion when you didn't even bother reading the article that sparked your outrage.

JoeCasey

Last year 33 billion spent on social protection, 1.6 in farming.