Ukraine Homes

maestroamado

I read there is a response from UK about our open door policy to Ukraine and we take 100000... 3

Where will they live...

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058236708/ukraine

I think Tìr na nÒg is due to reappear shortly. That should be able to house a few thousand nicely.

DubCount

The reality is we dont have enough housing for people already living here. 100,000 additional people is a lot of additional demand. I expect there will be some enhancement to the rent a room scheme to help. After that, we're going to need quick and cheap solutions for at least a temporary basis (modular homes, mobile homes etc.) until we can get supply sorted.

Of course, we could just force people into becoming landlords. We're already close to banning existing landlords from leaving, so its not too much of a stretch. Watch out for those "temporary emergency" measures - they tend to stick around for ever.

Claw Hammer

It is not known yet how many will come, or for how long. This rubbish about how we can't house our own won't fly. As members of the EU we are going to have to muck in. Given that we are not NATO members and don't spend on defence or contribute much militarily to European security the least we will be expected to do is offer humanitarian aid.

If things stabilise in Ukraine and refugees can go home, it will only have been a tenporary problem. If tens of thousands of refugees become long term residents, that is something else again.

The State will have to get its act together regarding housing and spatial planning, the speed of provision of infrastructure and costs of providing infrastructure.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761705#Comment_118761705

Peace talks have started over there. It may be the case that cooler heads will be able to hammer out some sort of a deal before thing escalate and other countries get sucked in. If the fighting ceases, there should be no need for anything close to 100k refugees to come here as those people will be needed to help with rebuilding. We can be hopeful.

If that doesn't happen, I think that it will be a disaster.

patnor1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761940#Comment_118761940

Refugees who plan to return usually stay close to border they crossed. That means Russia, Belarus, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Moldova.

Majority of refugees who move further away from home may have lost everything or simply want a change, these people do not intend to come back. So whatever number will come in here you can bet that most of them will want to stay. Which is quite understandable. Social welfare here is more than they can earn in most of jobs over there.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761957#Comment_118761957

If that doesn't happen, I think that it will be a disaster.

Yeah I mean in theory the ultimate ceiling on this is the entire 45M population of Ukraine (+any other countries the bould Vlad decides to invade)

Caranica

12,000 people have registered housing offers in their homes with the Irish red cross at the last count, that's more than enough to cope with the current demand.

maestroamado

I think it's great and 12000 people have signed up... Going forward the people who stay will need homes... Who will provide for this... Like a plan...

majority of Balkan war refugees went home, including those that came to Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762076#Comment_118762076

No I don't bet that most of them will want to stay.

BailMeOut

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058236708/ukraine-homes

worst-case scenario we will build tent cities on public land just like refugee camps in other countries. The Phoenix park would be an option as there is a lot of space there.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763552#Comment_118763552

I think that this is a perfectly reasonable proposal. These people are not immigrants; they're war refugees from what will (hopefully) be a temporary conflict. If I left Ireland for same reasons, I'd just be happy to have shelter without the fear of death before I returned home.

However, what I greatly fear is that certain groups are going to try to profit from this latest episode of human misery.

Subzero3

Even if they all left the housing crisis is not going to be fixed any time soon.

If a Ukrainian or other emigrant gets a job, is that considered Co-habiting from a welfare/tax point of view, if they are staying in your household?

mumo3

@patnor1011 "Social welfare here is more than they can earn in most of jobs over there." But the cost of living here is a lot higher, nowhere near covered by social welfare payment. People are also going on about the receipt of medical cards, but again try get a GP to take you on and your first experience waiting 12+ hours in A&E will dampen that freebie right down.

maestroamado

This conversation goin slightly different direction than I intended as I was more thinking we need be responsible taking people in without papers unless we can offer them a future better than an welfare...

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118761940#Comment_118761940

And if you think thats going to happen I have some grass that i want to sell you :)

Claw Hammer

If I think what is going to happen?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763423#Comment_118763423

I know several people i work with who pledged rooms in their houses. When they sat back and thought about it though they realized they didnt think it through and wont be going forward with it.

People already struggling and gas and electricity and petrol to increase like nobodies business. Then food to go up.

You'll have one or more people in your house all the time. Heating on, feeding them.

Its all very noble, and you really feel for the refugees, but there is a reality to this. Can people afford to take in refugees. Will they be able to afford it going forward.

If you get to be friends with the people in your house it would be very hard to show them the door when you start to struggle or find that you no longer feel like you have space in your own home. And what do you say when they go looking for alternative accommodation when the times comes and they find out, as so many irish people are at this very moment finding out when they go to move, that they cant find accommodation on the market.

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762561#Comment_118762561

The red cross did the same for Syrians, I think a lot were rejected or just didn't follow up.

maestroamado

Someone can correct me but I think it's possible people arriving without papers are Irish if they want to be...

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118764030#Comment_118764030

I personally would not take in a refugee unless they were someone whom I knew. This may seem a little cold, but I simply would not be comfortable with letting a total stranger into my home, and I cannot imagine that many people would be comfortable with that.

In truth, I think that the housing of 100k refugees in private homes will be a non starter. At best, most people who could do this would only be able to take in one or maybe two people tops, and only for a limited time. How many would have the space or the means to take in a whole family? If the Irish state is to take in such numbers, the powers that be need a plan on what to do with them or there will be a disaster on the way.

Spanish Eyes

I know this might come across as an "I'm alright Jack" comment, but remember those many many cubicles for the Covid vax in places like Citywest? Could they be repurposed in the short term as a place to sleep and wash and be fed? A lid on top of the cubicle and a proper door would give privacy. Red Cross or whoever could supply food via our donations. Those centres were set up really fast and fair dues at the time, what is happening to them now though?

I know it is not ideal. But if these places are idle why not?

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118765358#Comment_118765358

Good idea...

My concern for the people that arrive from homes... Can they have a home here if they stay long term...

Squeeonline

Buy the dip! Time to get into the ukrainian property market. Due to bounce back any day now!

Yellow_Fern

We certainly should be helping those in need and I don't object to Ukrainian refugees getting help, but what grates my ears is how people who are keen to take very large numbers are the same people whinging about the government failing on house prices. Policy has consequences.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118769496#Comment_118769496

There's nothing new in that. The Irish electorate has consistently voted in either neo-liberal or leftist parties election after election and stood by whilst the civil service was packed to the rafters with legions of the same.

Furthermore, no debate is allowed in the public sphere, and those who even try to call attention to uncomfortable elephants in the room can have their lives destroyed by twitter mobs. In many ways, the Irish have damned themselves. I suppose it's all well and good if you're living in a mortgage free house with a pension on the way, but that will be paid for by younger generations who have been used to fund these benefits through debt.

I guess we reap what we sow, eh....

laoisgem

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770420#Comment_118770420

Ah here, no debate is allowed? seriously? the public have been asking for change for quite a while now

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770614#Comment_118770614

I don't think that I can even point out what I'm referring to without getting the thread closed. Read between then lines, if you know what I mean :(.

laoisgem

Why do you think that is?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770631#Comment_118770631

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118764031#Comment_118764031

IIRC after the dust had settled on that there were less than 100 households that took them in. Alot of your lofty D4 types would have screenshot their pledge and posted it on whatever.com platform just for the loikes.

One thing we could do in this country to help with these refugees is for government to come up with a programme to house them in holiday homes, there are thousands of these sitting idle for months upon months all around our coastlines. Offer owners free LPT charges for a few years in return for housing them, add a sweetener of covering holiday home insurance, etc... to make it attractive.

This would have the benefits of helping the refugees and also not putting further pressure on accommodation rental prices, hotel room prices and also the housing market.

If Govt instruct that houses or hotel rooms are bought up to cater for the refugees this will put further pressure on rent, house prices and hotel nights - the Government won't be forgiven for it.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770768#Comment_118770768

I remember that. There was an initial surge of virtue signaling, and then it died down. Apparently, 17k have signed up to take in a refugee. I wonder how many will follow up on the offer. I'd say many will change their mind, and I don't think we're quite so far gone as to force it on to people.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118770631#Comment_118770631

I do not agree people want change as they did it would happen... Sure we're grand as we are...

Claw Hammer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118762076#Comment_118762076

Refugees have poured into Poland and other states bordering Ukraine. There are not enough resources for all of them to stay just inside the border or even in those states at all. Ireland will have to take its share of the refugees. The refugees themselves will not have much choice. Some may have preferences which will be accommodated but many will be sent to Ireland. Some of the refugees have already enrolled in school in Ireland and if they integrate sufficiently, may be not so inclined to go home to a wasteland, which is what Urkraine will be when the fighting stops, whether or not the Russians are still there.

Sleepy

Given that Ukranians are, in general, a highly educated lot, maybe we could organise an exchange programme and send some of our career dolers out to the front lines?

wangchung

Irish people have surpassed themselves relation to helping out the Ukraine people against a murderer and tyrant . The Irish Government's decision to allow any Ukrainian to come here from the war zone without any visa ,whilst maybe admiral, they have done so without any plan how they would handle all these people. The various government agencies who have been told to handle the influx are completely overwhelmed; the social welfare; housing ,health etc. The airport is in chaos as they appear not to be able to deal with all the numbers coming in. The other issue is who all these people coming in and from where? I understand there are a number of Ukrainians coming in from other European countries where they have been residing for a number of years and taking advantage of our new open border policy and others using Ireland to get to UK .

Claw Hammer

They are welcome to go to the UK. Why should we stop them going to the UK? We left the UK in 1922!

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118784527#Comment_118784527

This is basically what the article I read was talking about... There is agreed travel arrangement between Irl/UK and people able to get to UK using this back door... I expect Boris and MM disfussed this at weekend...

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118783346#Comment_118783346

Most likely it has not been thought out at all. Furthermore, there will be plenty of money to be made from this. Consider this article:

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-tens-of-thousands-of-ukrainian-refugees-could-come-to-uk-with-10-000-funding-per-individual-says-michael-gove-12564972

Granted, this is the UK, but it would be safe to wager that something similar will be created here. This will create a financial incentive to take refugees, and it will line many a pocket. Call me cynical, but I would opine that mammon had more to do with the state's eagerness to take in refugees than any humanitarian ambitions. Also, I'm sure that the old Irish ambition to appear as the best boys and girls in the class probably weighed heavily on the minds of the politicians and bureaucrats who are behind this. Likely, the welfare of the refugees and the immense pressure they will place on already strained services were low on the list of priorities.

Anyways, I don't see that 100k+ people will find accommodation in private homes, so it begs the question of where they will be housed. Methinks a disaster is on the cards. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail in the next round of peace talks and this can be averted.

AnnieinDundrum

Not specifically here but the “discussions” on refugees from Ukraine makes me wonder how we’d have reacted to boatloads of Jewish refugees in the 1940s.

history shows us what brutality can happen. Surely we welcome them to save lives and sort out the practicalities later?

JimmyVik

Very few of them will want to go home.

I stayed in Kiev for a month with work about 5 years ago.

During that time I went to a few other places in Ukraine for a bit of travel and Kiev is most definitely the only part of it that you might even think was a modern city that someone might be happy to live in, and that is a stretch.

So I believe that all the refugees wont be from Kiev. Any who arent will definitely see Ireland as a step up and want to stay here.

Kiev will be a bombed out shell of a place, so reasons not to go back there if you think you can do better in Ireland.

Of course you will get some who will want to go back no matter what state it is in, but anyone thinking of improving theirs or their familys lives, will for sure come down on the side of - better life to be had in Ireland. Citizenship to follow, with everything that brings too (Europe).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792295#Comment_118792295

Ireland famously didn't want Jewish refugees. There were public protests against taking them in.

The government basically didn't want them in case they give rise to an anti-Semitic problem. Like saying now, we don't want Ukrainian refugees in case it causes racism to rise.

AnnieinDundrum

I know what we did in the 1940s but after the horror was revealed to us I thought we’d be better now. We can see live feeds of what’s happening, we don’t have to wait a decade to see it.

i read a posting on FB from an American I know slightly, he told his family tale of escaping from Ukraine and other parts of Eastern Europe in 1920s ish. But his other posts are about how the USA must tighten borders, reduce immigration etc.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792498#Comment_118792498

Have you any pointers for reading up on that? Genuinely interested.

RichardAnd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792295#Comment_118792295

It would depends on the individual and on their personal circumstances, just as it does today.

Humans are a tribal / family orientated species. If an individual is in a position where their needs are met, they will be open to considering the needs of others as it will not be seen as a “threat” to their own procurement of resources. This is just how we are, and there are very good, evolutionary reasons behind it

Taking the current situation as an example, if someone is struggling to pay rent / pay bills or find a home, the thought of an additional 100k people here is very worrying, regardless of the reasons.  More people means more pressure on resources. It’s very hard to be altruistic when one is themselves in a difficult position, and many people are indeed in difficult circumstances. I myself know a Romanian lady who is facing the loss of her rented accommodation, and she is extremely concerned that she will be unable to find something else if refugees arrive in huge numbers. I think that her worries are not hard to understand…

For my own part, I have sympathy for anyone who is displaced by conflict, but it is also important to bear in mind that there are consequences to every action.  Simply because someone raises concerns does not mean that they are a bad person. What is the right thing to do? I have no idea, but as I have said above, I have severe concerns about the motivations of the state and great worries for what could happen. 

My two cents…

retalivity

There is a ton of student accommodation built/being built in Dublin that has very low occupancy due to the ridiculous cost of a room. I expected the government to commandeer a few of these to house the Direct Provision crowd, but could see that being fast-tracked to house incoming Ukrainian refugees instead.

Effects

I know of one slumlord that's entered into deals with DCC for some of his properties, to house refugees.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792551#Comment_118792551

On the mobile at the mo, so can't really, but there is lots online about it

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793002#Comment_118793002

All good thanks. Found some stuff on Irish Times and Holocaust Ed Trust Ireland.

Annascaul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118763573#Comment_118763573

I am not against housing refugees, but that's the main issue. We're supposed to accept refugees, but can't even properly house our own people.

JimmyVik

I think they are approaching people now to get housing.

we have an old mobile home. Its about 30 years old. Mainly used a s a shed now, but it still looks like you could live in it, but you cant. It would be freezing and leaks. Even the toilet is decommissioned.

Had someone call in from a charity asking if they could use it to house refugees.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813324#Comment_118813324

Housing refugees isn't going to make that much difference.

The people in control of housing don't want to fix the crisis, and people who own property don't want their homes/investments to devalue.