Which one of us is the D*ckhead?

zg3409

Personally if anyone is flashing at me I assume there is hidden danger ahead, and I slow down massively and leave lots of room from car in front. I don't stand on the brakes, I check my mirrors to see if anyone behind me, for fear they may suddenly overtake, which is a risk.

Then I would have had time to see the hazzard, and decide what to do. There could have been a fox, duck etc on the road, or a drunk or a speed trap.

The flat bed was not in the right to stop with such a queue of traffic behind him, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I often flash drivers to warn them of upcoming danger such as road flooded, cyclist on a bend etc, and I rarely see them take any action to slow.

I do tend to follow right of way and not let out people on side roads for no reason particularly if there is traffic behind. I do sometimes let people out if I know they are struggling and they need help getting out from side road if there is no risk to causing an accident. I find those waved out often shoot out without checking carefully.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828832#Comment_118828832

All drivers are legally required to drive in a manner that allows them to stop within the distance they can see to be clear. There could be anything on any road - animals, children, a crash. The problem with the scenario you outline is the dumb moped driver. They need to notice what's going on around them and ride accordingly.

TherapyBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118828649#Comment_118828649

Often a driver stopping, no matter how well meant their intent, in an unexpected way puts pressure on the pedestrian (or whoever) to “pick their moment”. Doing this sort of thing often takes the choice out of their hands.

Doolittle51

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830166#Comment_118830166

But if the van driver didn't stop, nobody would get harmed. You'll find that even cars will try to overtake the van in the scenario above. People don't like being stopped for no reason and will do silly things. It's much safer to keep traffic flowing.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830232#Comment_118830232

People need to get over not liking being stopped so. It's not 'for no reason'. There's a very good reason - to let someone cross the road safely and get on with their journey. Why do drivers think that their journey is more important than anyone else's?

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830321#Comment_118830321

Ah I don't think that's the case here. Doing the unexpected creates risk. Currently in Ireland the unexpected is stopping for peds in this scenario.

For me the interesting question is: should we do what the UK have done and make it mandatory to stop at junctions/roundabouts to give way to more vulnerable road users?

I'd be happy to do so then that becomes the expected.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830486#Comment_118830486

The more of us that do it, the more expected it will get.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830493#Comment_118830493

Not if it's not taught. Can't go making up rules and have them inconsistently applied.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830486#Comment_118830486

Ah I don't think that's the case here. Doing the unexpected creates risk.

It appears to be a form of urban area. Someone crossing the road should not be unexpected tbh!

km991148

And there are lots of examples of this going wrong.

How many times you been up a cycle lane and a vehicle in the driving lane flashes a car to right turn across the carriageway? Or flashes pedestrians across the road to have them walk into the cycle lane?

Of course being vigilant and reading the road ahead, these don't cause problems but it does increase risk.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830541#Comment_118830541

That's the question tho isn't it?

Should or shouldn't. Currently it's not the default to stop, so it is unexpected. Not a surprise when it happens, no problem and can be dealt with.. but not the default behaviour.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830505#Comment_118830505

It’s not a rule. It’s a courtesy.

I swear that most of the complaints have little to do with safety and everything to do with drivers not liking the idea of giving way to pedestrians for a few seconds.

TherapyBoy

It’s not safe Andrew.

A little bit of courtesy to pedestrians/cyclists/motorists/whatever is fine but stopping traffic to let another road user cross like this can & does cause accidents.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830905#Comment_118830905

I know it's not a rule here. That's my whole point 🙄

Predictability works best.

What about the other examples I gave? You never encountered them?

Not everything is all about them evil drivers..

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830553#Comment_118830553

Would you stop with the "default behaviour"! There is no default behaviour. What there is, is an assumption amongst some that they are entitled to absolute priority always.

In the OP's case they were given advance warning of something ahead. They still drove on when it is clear in the vid that the road is not a safe one to cross with small kids.

Should people driving along a road really believe that they have absolute priority along a stretch if road because it is not written in law that they do?

Oscar Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118732997#Comment_118732997

I wouldn't be a fan of stopping in such situations like this either!

It is too dangerous & the family should find a safer place to cross!

road_high

That’s a great idea alright. Stop randomly in the middle of a busy road so traffic behind can plough into the back of you

lawred2

I was so drawn to the flashing lights I didn't even see the family waiting to cross

El_Duderino 09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830905#Comment_118830905

That's not my approach. I don't mind giving way to pedestrians when appropriate. If I'm pulling onto a road at a t-junction, I'd always give way to pedestrians. Same in residential areas where there are children for example. If there are no other cars, I'd sooner stop and let pedestrians cross. At least that way you know they have crossed so they won't walk out in front of you. Safe for everyone.

But these are urban examples where trafic is movibg slowly anyway. On a busy road traveling at 80 or 100km/hr, like in the video from the OP, it makes sense to just drive on and not make any moves unexpected by other motorists, and let the pedestrians cross when it's safe for them to do it.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118831244#Comment_118831244

I would asses each situation independently. But having said that more often than not I don't flash/wave or stop randomly.

It's just too busy these days and too much risk.

Of course, if driving or cycling I will create space in certain situations. I will make gaps in traffic and let others risk asses and decide if they want to use it. Thus is entirely different from stopping dead in flowing traffic and flashing people on.

Now regarding the default, in Ireland the pedestrians must wait. That's the default and therefore the expected (correct me if I'm wrong here).

Regarding the behaviour I'd like to see: I'd prefer the same as the new change the UK made to the highway code last month, which basically gives the right of way to pedestrians crossing at junctions and roundabouts (actually generally more rights to more vulnerable road users) If that became the default then people would know what to expect..

Unfortunately tho I don't think the Irish are ready for such a change, they can barely drive or cycle to the current rules of the road.. (can't even agree on what they are lol).

km991148

Like there are examples of this "courteous driving style" causing issues every other week in the "near misses" thread in the cycling forum...

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118831564#Comment_118831564

Really? Any examples?

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832017#Comment_118832017

Lol literally last week when a car flashed another oncoming car into a petrol station and nearly collided with the cyclist in the lane when it turned right across the traffic.

Or what about the examples I have above? You never experienced them?

km991148

How about I just say all car drivers are entitled pricks and we leave it there?

I think I'm clear on my driving and cycling style. I'm open to learning all the time but I'm not seeing any value or merit or anything to learn from in this thread.

Seth Brundle

Let's not make this another cyclists vs drivers thread

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832084#Comment_118832084

Agreed. My point was in reference to the "courtesy" extended by one road user to another. The video clip I posted is car and pedestrian, but that seems to be a risk some are willing to take.

Doolittle51

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118830905#Comment_118830905

Well my main concern is safety of the pedestrians. It's safer to let them use their own judgment when crossing the road. Another poster said that he hates when people stop to let him cross, so how do you know the pedestrians even want people to stop?

Personally I'd feel terrible if I caused an accident by stopping to let someone cross. For example if I was shunted into them, or something like the moped scenario occurred. I wouldn't be deemed liable by the insurance companies, but ultimately if my vehicle made contact with a pedestrian or cyclist in this type of situation, I'd always have the guilt that it wouldn't have happened if I didn't stop.

It baffles me that you cant see why it's unsafe to stop a car in free flowing traffic unnecessarily.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832661#Comment_118832661

Drivers stop or nearly stop in traffic all the time, perhaps to turn or pull into an entrance or driveway, or when an animal runs out, or when there is a cyclist that they can't pass safely. There's nothing particularly unusual about drivers having to slow or stop in traffic, other than in cases like this, that it is done specifically to accommodate pedestrians.

It is generally clear when someone is waiting to cross the road. I think I can recall one incident where I misinterpreted, and the person waved me on. No one died.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832062#Comment_118832062

This petrol station one?

https://twitter.com/sarsfieldsride/status/1503404421505560576?t=yDL7MHfeTshHQc4oY_ymSw&s=19

There's no indication that the driver was flashed.

Can you link to any other such cases please?

Doolittle51

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118832803#Comment_118832803

When a driver stops or slows to turn, the people behind him know why he's doing so. When people stop at random locations, other drivers get confused and will act erratically. This causes accidents.

The majority of posters on this thread think it's unsafe to stop randomly and drivers who behave like this are creating unsafe conditions where people can get hurt or killed.