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2022 Seanad by-election

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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    What is the issue with MacNeill?

    I wouldn't have been aware of him other than his bio and him running for the Seanad the couple of times but he appears to have an impressive CV. He was a scholar, played two sports for the college, represented his country internationally and an MD at Goldman.



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,991 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    This discussion isnt about me.

    Disabled people have told me they were upset about his social media and how they felt it talked about disabled people. The Independent Living Movement Ireland released a statement on the matter.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,596 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    You did see the statement from the Independent Living Movement on this issue, right?



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,596 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    What was it about the millionaire MacNeill that attracted Jennifer I wonder?



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,238 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    He has as much right to stand as anyone else, and better thought through policy positions than some. Your man who got 38 votes and whose platform was basically "I'm an immigrant, vote for me" is more of a waste of space on a ballot paper.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    If you bothered your arse to read what I said, it never disputed his right to stand. If you had a vote and were bothered to use it, you were more than welcome to give it to him. That he wastes the opportunity is speaks for himself and I'd reckon he probably comes from a fairly well-to-do background where he had everything handed to him easy and appreciates nothing.

    What you often have with people like that is that they want the limelight and want to get elected onto these things but then either haven't the competency or the work ethic to actually do something. His bio says he had a "silver medal" in some other election. So he wants to do these things but then fails badly and has to try to cover up by trying to take the pi$s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    Are you referring to McDermott? He was a joke candidate. As in he wasn't trying to get elected. His entire campaign was satirical. He ran the sort of campaign that you see the Monster Raving Looney Party do in UK elections. After the vote he declared fraud - not that the votes were tampered with but that there was no way that over 13,000 people bothered to vote in a Seanad bye-election.

    I don't see the harm in it, especially since, unlike in UK elections, the 132 people who gave him their first preference got to transfer their votes to real candidates after his elimination.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    He ran a joke election because he wanted to run but knew he didn't have a hope of being elected. So he ran as a "joke".

    Plenty of students run those type of campaigns. Sometimes as an actual tactic to try to win a student election. And sometimes just as a vanity project dressed up as a joke. the "joke" aspect is really just getting your excuses in first to save face.

    Either way, it's highly disrespectful to the democratic institutions of the state. The State being the ultimate entity which facilitates his current lifestyle as a student.

    Ultimately the "joke" backfires when you see that the system is actually open to everyone. He now will never have any reason to moan about the political system. Because he had the opportunity to be part of it and he failed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I'm guessing you're not a fan of Lord Buckhead or Elmo running against Boris Johnson in his local constituency either then! Ah well, each to their own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Neither of them is a vanity project to the same extent as they run under assumed names.


    Edit: Here is an interview with him


    In an interview with The University Times, McDermott draws a parallel between those and his current bid for the Seanad. “ I guess it’s very much: ‘If I get it, that’d be great.’”

    On the other hand: “If I don’t, I just go back to what I was doing anyway.”


    Despite a dislike for party politics, McDermott names Hazel Chu as his biggest competitor in the Seanad race. “She’s the only candidate I’d actually heard of before”, he admits. “As soon as she declared, I was like, well, I’m not going to win this one.”


    I mean, he briefly mentions things that are actual issues, but instead of using the opportunity to try to raise awareness of those issues, he uses it to shout over them with a "look at me, look at me. Sure amn't I a mad bastard altogether" strategy



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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,845 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    highly disrespectful to the democratic institutions of the state

    Since when was the Seanad democratic ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    People can vote in it ..... duh.

    Just because there is an election, it doesn't make it undemocratic if you aren't in a particular constituency. I can't vote for a TD in Cork, and then one in Galway, then one in Louth.


    People appointed are done so by people elected and whose prerogative it is to do so. The DU representatives are directly elected by the votes of its electorate. And it is open for any person to become part of that electorate by simply graduating from there.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,845 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    Yes but everyone gets to vote for a TD....duh

    Most of the country never get a Seanad vote in their lives.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    No, but you vote for people as your representatives to put others in there.

    Having a directly elected upper house would just be repeating the Dail and defeating its purpose. The university reps are a bit of an outlier in this regard. But there would have been philosophical justifications for it back in the day I suppose.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,845 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    That then means certain people get 2 votes 1 when they "vote for people as your representatives to put others in there" and one because they went to a certain school.

    We can just abolish all these pompous Trinners grads seat and the like so if they already have the same Seanad vote as me.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You can also get access through the NUI ones if you can't get the points to be a "pompous Trinners grad". Trinity also runs a few access programmes and is very accessible as a mature student.


    Fun fact, the University of Dublin used to confer degrees on what were DIT graduates back in the day. So I presume those also have a Seanad vote.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,845 ✭✭✭✭breezy1985


    What about all the people who go to non NUI universities or none at all.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    I think that comes under the ancient doctrine of "tough titties".


    The aspect of the Seanad which is a joke is failed TDs being granted seats on panels, for which they are supposed to be "experts", but for which they would appear to have no background at all.


    In many ways, the university candidates are the most deserving and valid candidates of their positions



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout


    I'd be far more annoyed about someone running as a legitimate candidate who engages in blatant disinformation (e.g. Gemma O' Doherty, anyone from The National Party, Renua or the Irish Freedom Party). People like that have the potential to actually be dangerous (thankfully the above mentioned are not though because they are so bad at it). We only need to look at other jurisdictions to see how people have managed to pull this off to the detriment of democracy.

    Ray Bassett ran in this election as well. His main job these days appears to be writing anti-EU pieces for the Daily Express to print so that they can imply that this is a common opinion held my Irish people. That is far more scurrilous behaviour and I was delighted to see him being roundly rejected at this election.

    If someone is instead saying "This is a joke" then there is no harm in it in my book. He's not costing the taxpayer any money as far as I can see. He was never going to get elected. I really cannot understand getting angry over it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34,238 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Yes, DIT graduates with TCD degrees (such as myself) do have votes in the TCD Seanad election. Only one candidate thought to mention "TCD and DIT graduates" in their leaflet however.

    The Irish electorate voted overwhelmingly in 1979 to add the 7th amendment to the constitution permitting all university graduates to be added to the electorate for the six university seats - but this has never been legislated for.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You can be against more than one type of candidate. The likes of your man taking the pis$ and turning it into a joke can pave the way for the more sinister candidates to get in. Once the process becomes a joke then sure why would people care when you tell them it doesn't matter?

    Would you have voted for Basset if he had still said the same policies but did it while taking the pi$s out of the Seanad or the process on social media? Could he count on you if he took that strategy maybe?

    Who pays for the election material?



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    That may be a reflection of the number on the register.

    Being pedantic (and open to correction) but I'd imagine that you wouldn't have a "TCD degree". Your degree would likely have been conferred by Dublin University. It is the same body which awards degrees to "TCD graduates". Both are/were probably conferred by Dublin University. (TCD being the only consituent college of Dublin University.)



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    You seem to be making the erroneous assumption that I would have voted for that candidate just because I don't object to the existence of his campaign in the first place.


    As for him paving the way for more sinister candidates.....that doesn't even make sense. You know what paves the way for sinister candidates though? The success of sinister candidates in other countries. The election of the politician who you have chosen to name your account after inspired a whole host of people with terrible running in our last local and general elections.


    Who pays for the election material?

    What material? Did he even produce anything beyond social media?

    The cost to add his name to the ballot paper is negligible considering there were already 16 candidates on it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Apathy can pave the way for more sinister candidates to get elected. Telling people that the process,or the institution, doesn't matter increase that apathy and disengagement.

    If the Seanad doesn't matter, or if any political election doesn't really matter, then why would I bother going to the effort of voting? Whereas the ones with an agenda will make an effort. They will rally their troops. They will sneak in in the face of that apathy.

    People making a joke of the process do affect that.

    Give me the name of one person who was inspired to run by Trump who would not have run otherwise? Given that you appear to be trying to take a personal dig for some reason.

    If you decide to read the words in my posts I never objected to his existence either. I merely said I would not have any time for him. He is as entitled to run as anyone else who can get the 10 nominations. It is just unfortunate that he decides to do so.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,693 ✭✭✭Brussels Sprout



    It wasn't a personal dig. I was actually writing his name and then I realised it was your username so just reworded it.

    One person who was inspired by Trump was Sarah Louise Mulligan. She ran on a far-right platform and explicitly said that Trump was her inspiration even creating a website telling the world how much she loved him. She was all over social media at the time which is why I remember her. She ended up coming second last in Cabra-Glasnevin with 168 first preference votes.

    We could probably have this back and forth all afternoon but I'm going to leave it there. Feel free to have the last word though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    That was the "lady" who used to try to get articles of herself in the likes of the Sun with photos of her with her knockers out.

    She used to be an amateur model (read that as let random fellas take photos of her in the nip) and then tried to make a big deal out of performing a sex scene naked in some film or series.

    Nothing wrong with any of that, but I'd reckon her running for anything had more to do with publicity than actual political ambition. Claiming to be a Trump fan would be one way to increase the publicity. I would count her on a par with your man and his "joke" campaign.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭AlanG


    You are wrong - DIT Graduates up until around 20 years ago got DIT Advanced Diplomas and were seperatly graded for TCD degrees. They have all the same rights and qualifications as if they attended TCD and the same parchments.

    As the DIT diploma and the TCD degree are in slightly different categories most now have 2 degrees as you can retrospectively get the DIT level 8 award upgraded. For example the Level 8 Advanced Diploma in Marketing Techinques in Mountjoy squlare was awarded a BSc in Management form TCD. They can now get a separate degree retrospectively from DIT.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭AlanG


    The failure to enact the referundum of 1979 is a joke and makes a mockery of the Dail. It should be an issue for every referendum campaign ever since.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,453 ✭✭✭sam t smith




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  • Registered Users Posts: 19,172 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    I'm not wrong. You just didn't understand the point


    Technically, there is no such thing as a "TCD degree". Trinity College does not have authority to award degrees. You may read about it even of wikipedia if you want https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Dublin



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