2022 Seanad by-election

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863515#Comment_118863515

Certainly not a perfect solution. But it would be a step in the right direction.

touts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863497#Comment_118863497

Those two will either be voted out of the Dail or carried out feet first. They won't just give up because they have nothing else to do.

jolivmmx

I am very happy with the outcome! It seems the best person won!

Spanish Eyes

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863642#Comment_118863642

Yes, it's a long time since I had nothing bad to say about a (soon to be) politician, but this person always came across as sound as a pound, well to me anyway. He might go a long way eventually.

Shelga

I’m delighted my #1 got elected. I didn’t know anything about him before this, just did my small bit of research from their leaflets and also on here. He seems like a very worthy winner.

I still think the Trinity panel is elitist, but whilst it exists, I’ll exercise my right to vote. And when it’s such a tiny turnout, it really feels like your vote matters. A few hundred people who didn’t bother to post back their ballots, and it could have gone to any of the top 4, by the looks of it.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862689#Comment_118862689

The couple had the Mansion House free for a year, but it looks like they got a whole lot of rent free space in your head for an awful lot longer .

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118862600#Comment_118862600

I really agree with ILMI on that

https://ilmi.ie/disabled-children-and-young-disabled-adults-are-not-props-or-pawns-to-be-used-in-any-fundraising-or-political-campaigns/

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863886#Comment_118863886

That's not really fair in Clonan's case. He's been featuring his son on social media for years - in the context of his pride in him achieving education goals in spite of his disability. He didn't just wheel him out as a prop to get elected.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863399#Comment_118863399

She tweeted out afterwards that more women need to run. Now in general that's certainly true but I thought it an odd remark considering women were actually in the majority on the ballot in this case.

I can't see it being the end of the road for her although I don't think she can run for anything until at least 2024. Then she will either defend her seat at the locals in 2024, if she's smart, or run as an independent for Europe, on that same day, if she's learned absolutely nothing. Beyond that she might give Trinity another crack after the next general election - Norris might not defend his seat next time out given that he'll be pushing 80.

Snickers Man

I wonder will the Daily Express notice that their favourite Irish sounding board, Ray Bassett, got such a low share of the vote (3.4%) that he would have lost his deposit if it were a UK election? There, you have to get 5% of the poll if you want to keep your downpayment.

Because of his Eurosceptic views, and his willingness to spout them to a British audience (if not to an Irish electorate) Dr Bassett is a frequent contributor to the arch-conservative newspaper where his ravings are eagerly broadcast to the Great British Public as the authentic voice of the Real Ireland: loyal, anglophile, Eurosceptic and nostalgic for the days of the United Kingdom of Britain and (all of) Ireland.

A perfunctory search on Google, and a filtering out of duplicates reveals that he has been quoted at least 30 times in the twelve months from April 1st 2021 to March 31st 2022 in stories published on the express.co.uk website. That's two and a half times per month: not bad for a fat-cat bureaucrat retired on a gilt-edged public service pension that is usually the type of "elitist" roundly reviled by the eurosceptic/Brexit crew.

Most of those 30 mentions were in stories where his comment was the lead item, and featured under headlines like "EU warned [by Bassett] Irexit emerging as a credible prospect" (15/June/2021) or "Irish ex-diplomat admits EU bullying Dublin" (8/July 2021) to "EU shamed as ex-diplomat blasts whinging France" (18/September/2021) down to "EU throws Dublin under bus" (31/January/2022)

Now that he has been soundly rejected by the most concentrated West Brit constituency it is possible to find in Ireland (Trinners graduates of which I am one---How to you know if somebody went to Trinity? They tell you!) will his views continue to be sought by the Express?

You bet your sweet bippy!!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118863859#Comment_118863859

Hopefully, the next election will see the back of both of them so I can reclaim that area of my head without having recourse to the RTB!

Mind you, I fear that it will take me a lot longer to reclaim the small area of my brainspace occupied by the Wallace/Daly unit.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865138#Comment_118865138

I wouldn't have thought a Eurosceptic would do particularly well in Trinity. While it is the most Anglo friendly, it's also traditionally very liberal, so support for the EU would be a natural fit.

I don't understand Ray Bassett though. The DFA is very much in the pro-EU camp (so much so, that their interview process screens for EU views) so I can't understand how he got to the rank of ambassador whilst holding such opinions. Maybe he sat on them in office, but considering he's so outspoken now, that seems unlikely to me. I wonder what the true motivation is there.

Furze99

Complete waste of space and unnecessary drain on public resources. We were given a golden opportunity to get rid of them a while back and somehow screwed it up.

AndrewJRenko

Has anyone got any insights into what was Gaffney’s appeal? Her leaflet didn’t stand out at all for me, and she didn’t seem to campaign. It is just that she’s the nice lady from the radio, the George Lee effect? I’m amazed that she came out 2nd place. It was fun watching my vote bouncing around and finally ending up with Clonan.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865397#Comment_118865397

Maybe she was researching for a topic for another book. I would think name recognition did a lot for her.

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865390#Comment_118865390

Funny things referendums, huh?

I think the key to winning a referendum is to campaign like hell for your point of view. All people: Irish, British or whoever, are averse to the "Mrs Doyle" line of persuasion "Ah, go on, go on, go on. You will, you will you will" which brooks no argument at all. It comes across as "We know best. Don't you dare question our superior knowledge. Just trust us and don't be bothering your silly inferior head with things you couldn't possibly understand"

That was the approach of all the major parties for referendums such as those on the Lisbon and Nice Treaties and especially the Seanad Reform referendums. People hate being taken for granted and there is immense power in being able to walk into a private polling booth and telling the powers that be to feck off just by voting the way they DIDN'T want you to vote.

Look at the recent Marriage Equality and Abortion referendums. Whatever about general attitudes being in flux in post-catholic Ireland those referendums were won by the determination of canvassers to get out on the streets and MAKE the case for their point of view. That is inherently respectful of the ability of individual members of the electorate to make up their own minds. And it pays dividends.

Though it pains me to say it: it's probably what won the Brexit referendum too.

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865479#Comment_118865479

Sure, there was no push behind it at all from those that put it before the people. Still, when I hear someone giving out about politicians and the like, I'm inclined to ask them did they vote in the Seanad referendum. Which usually elicits a response like 'what was that'?

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118864868#Comment_118864868

I disagree. I think its perfectly valid to talk about his experience as a carer but I found his social media in this campaign just totally ott on it. I know many disabled people were really really upset at his campaigns use of social media.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118865397#Comment_118865397

I think it was probably a lot of name recognition from a lot of Norriss voters in their 50s, 60s, 70s. Previously TCD used to auto enrol graduates. They dont anymore so the electorate is older in general.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118873710#Comment_118873710

You’re probably right. I’d have hoped that it took more than name recognition to get a vote.

Galwayguy35

I hope the spineless voters who didn't have the bottle to vote this gravey train out of existence are happy their taxes are still being used to keep this useless shower in a job.

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118873688#Comment_118873688

He was interviewed on RTE radio today and said his son ran his social media campaign so if blame is due it is the son you should target.

He put his name forward and got elected - if you have a problem with that, then put your name forward and get yourself elected.

Brussels Sprout

.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874133#Comment_118874133

🤣🤣🤣

Oh look be dismissive and rude about it why dont you without actually acknowledging or discussing why disabled people might be so upset. Oh and I'm not the discussion here by the way. The issue is.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874729#Comment_118874729

I deleted a post above in response to you because I reconsidered and thought better of it. Then I saw this latest comment of yours.

All of your posts in this thread were about how you thought that Hazel Chu was going to win. When she lost you suddenly pounced on the winner with this pearl clutching about how he ran his campaign. As someone with a disabled sibling it's coming across as entirely disingenuous.

The name Tom Clonan didn't mean anything to me but it turns out I did know him because his posts about his son, that I saw in the past, struck a chord with me. He was proud of his son and what he had achieved in his life. Your criticisms of him come across as spiteful and rooted in begrudgery.

Donald Trump

Some fella only got 28 votes.

How many do you need for nomination? Is it proposer, seconder and 10 assentors? Or 10 in total?

Either way, fairly deluded to be putting yourself forward for that unless you just want to get your name on a paper for free

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874961#Comment_118874961

That guy ran for both the TCD and NUI panels in the general election in 2020. He got 0.5% & 0.7% of the votes respectively. If he wasn't demoralised by those results then it's very likely that he won't be demoralised but this one either.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874997#Comment_118874997

Do they have to put up any expenses for these elections? Or is the cost borne by the college?

I'm all in favour of having politics accessible, but 28 votes is taking the piss unless he wants to fund it himself.

When it gets to something like that, you really only have someone advertising themselves or their businesses etc.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875010#Comment_118875010

Apparently there is no deposit. They just need to be nominated:

Who can be a candidate?

‘A person to be eligible for membership of Seanad Éireann must be eligible to become a member of Dáil Éireann’. Bunreacht na hÉireann, Art. 18.2 (Every citizen without distinction of sex who has reached the age of twenty-one years, and who is not placed under disability or incapacity by this Constitution or by law, shall be eligible for membership of Dáil Éireann. Bunreacht na hÉireann, Art. 16.1)

What does a candidate have to do?

A candidate has to be formally nominated, that is, must submit one fully completed hard copy Form of Nomination on or before the date of close of nominations (12 noon on Friday, 11th February 2022). 

Do candidates have to pay a deposit or other fee?

No.

What information is required in a Form of Nomination?

The candidate must give their name and address, and a description, which, ‘in the opinion of the Returning Officer, is calculated sufficiently to identify the candidate’. (Seanad Electoral (University Members) Act, 1937).

Candidates: must:

• have a Proposer, Seconder and Eight (8) Assentors all of whom must be registered voters in the Register being used for any given election.
• submit one completed Form of Nomination.

Note: Candidates are encouraged to liaise with the Academic Registry in order to confirm that their Proposer, Seconder and Eight Assentors are included in the Register being used for the purposes of election. 

https://www.tcd.ie/seanad/faq/

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826971#Comment_118826971

I wouldn't have any time for the likes of your man "Michael" who is just lazily wasting an actual democratic opportunity. It's completely disrespectful for all the people who sacrificed so much to be able to have the options that he has. You may not like the idea of the Seanad but it is there and is part of the State.

Maybe when he grow the **** up a bit, he will realise the value of what he had in being able to get himself put forward.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118657377#Comment_118657377

What is the issue with MacNeill?

I wouldn't have been aware of him other than his bio and him running for the Seanad the couple of times but he appears to have an impressive CV. He was a scholar, played two sports for the college, represented his country internationally and an MD at Goldman.

Annasopra

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874926#Comment_118874926

This discussion isnt about me.

Disabled people have told me they were upset about his social media and how they felt it talked about disabled people. The Independent Living Movement Ireland released a statement on the matter.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118874926#Comment_118874926

You did see the statement from the Independent Living Movement on this issue, right?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118826971#Comment_118826971

What was it about the millionaire MacNeill that attracted Jennifer I wonder?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118875038#Comment_118875038

He has as much right to stand as anyone else, and better thought through policy positions than some. Your man who got 38 votes and whose platform was basically "I'm an immigrant, vote for me" is more of a waste of space on a ballot paper.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880487#Comment_118880487

If you bothered your arse to read what I said, it never disputed his right to stand. If you had a vote and were bothered to use it, you were more than welcome to give it to him. That he wastes the opportunity is speaks for himself and I'd reckon he probably comes from a fairly well-to-do background where he had everything handed to him easy and appreciates nothing.

What you often have with people like that is that they want the limelight and want to get elected onto these things but then either haven't the competency or the work ethic to actually do something. His bio says he had a "silver medal" in some other election. So he wants to do these things but then fails badly and has to try to cover up by trying to take the pi$s.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118880672#Comment_118880672

Are you referring to McDermott? He was a joke candidate. As in he wasn't trying to get elected. His entire campaign was satirical. He ran the sort of campaign that you see the Monster Raving Looney Party do in UK elections. After the vote he declared fraud - not that the votes were tampered with but that there was no way that over 13,000 people bothered to vote in a Seanad bye-election.

I don't see the harm in it, especially since, unlike in UK elections, the 132 people who gave him their first preference got to transfer their votes to real candidates after his elimination.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882694#Comment_118882694

He ran a joke election because he wanted to run but knew he didn't have a hope of being elected. So he ran as a "joke".

Plenty of students run those type of campaigns. Sometimes as an actual tactic to try to win a student election. And sometimes just as a vanity project dressed up as a joke. the "joke" aspect is really just getting your excuses in first to save face.

Either way, it's highly disrespectful to the democratic institutions of the state. The State being the ultimate entity which facilitates his current lifestyle as a student.

Ultimately the "joke" backfires when you see that the system is actually open to everyone. He now will never have any reason to moan about the political system. Because he had the opportunity to be part of it and he failed.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882727#Comment_118882727

I'm guessing you're not a fan of Lord Buckhead or Elmo running against Boris Johnson in his local constituency either then! Ah well, each to their own.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882751#Comment_118882751

Neither of them is a vanity project to the same extent as they run under assumed names.

Edit: Here is an interview with him

https://universitytimes.ie/2022/02/michael-mcdermott-one-of-the-few-joke-candidates-in-irish-politics/

In an interview with The University Times, McDermott draws a parallel between those and his current bid for the Seanad. “ I guess it’s very much: ‘If I get it, that’d be great.’”

On the other hand: “If I don’t, I just go back to what I was doing anyway.”

Despite a dislike for party politics, McDermott names Hazel Chu as his biggest competitor in the Seanad race. “She’s the only candidate I’d actually heard of before”, he admits. “As soon as she declared, I was like, well, I’m not going to win this one.”

I mean, he briefly mentions things that are actual issues, but instead of using the opportunity to try to raise awareness of those issues, he uses it to shout over them with a "look at me, look at me. Sure amn't I a mad bastard altogether" strategy

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882727#Comment_118882727

highly disrespectful to the democratic institutions of the state

Since when was the Seanad democratic ?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882806#Comment_118882806

People can vote in it ..... duh.

Just because there is an election, it doesn't make it undemocratic if you aren't in a particular constituency. I can't vote for a TD in Cork, and then one in Galway, then one in Louth.

People appointed are done so by people elected and whose prerogative it is to do so. The DU representatives are directly elected by the votes of its electorate. And it is open for any person to become part of that electorate by simply graduating from there.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882810#Comment_118882810

Yes but everyone gets to vote for a TD....duh

Most of the country never get a Seanad vote in their lives.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882841#Comment_118882841

No, but you vote for people as your representatives to put others in there.

Having a directly elected upper house would just be repeating the Dail and defeating its purpose. The university reps are a bit of an outlier in this regard. But there would have been philosophical justifications for it back in the day I suppose.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882848#Comment_118882848

That then means certain people get 2 votes 1 when they "vote for people as your representatives to put others in there" and one because they went to a certain school.

We can just abolish all these pompous Trinners grads seat and the like so if they already have the same Seanad vote as me.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882860#Comment_118882860

You can also get access through the NUI ones if you can't get the points to be a "pompous Trinners grad". Trinity also runs a few access programmes and is very accessible as a mature student.

Fun fact, the University of Dublin used to confer degrees on what were DIT graduates back in the day. So I presume those also have a Seanad vote.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882869#Comment_118882869

What about all the people who go to non NUI universities or none at all.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118882878#Comment_118882878

I think that comes under the ancient doctrine of "tough titties".

The aspect of the Seanad which is a joke is failed TDs being granted seats on panels, for which they are supposed to be "experts", but for which they would appear to have no background at all.

In many ways, the university candidates are the most deserving and valid candidates of their positions

Brussels Sprout

I'd be far more annoyed about someone running as a legitimate candidate who engages in blatant disinformation (e.g. Gemma O' Doherty, anyone from The National Party, Renua or the Irish Freedom Party). People like that have the potential to actually be dangerous (thankfully the above mentioned are not though because they are so bad at it). We only need to look at other jurisdictions to see how people have managed to pull this off to the detriment of democracy.

Ray Bassett ran in this election as well. His main job these days appears to be writing anti-EU pieces for the Daily Express to print so that they can imply that this is a common opinion held my Irish people. That is far more scurrilous behaviour and I was delighted to see him being roundly rejected at this election.

If someone is instead saying "This is a joke" then there is no harm in it in my book. He's not costing the taxpayer any money as far as I can see. He was never going to get elected. I really cannot understand getting angry over it.

Hotblack Desiato

Yes, DIT graduates with TCD degrees (such as myself) do have votes in the TCD Seanad election. Only one candidate thought to mention "TCD and DIT graduates" in their leaflet however.

The Irish electorate voted overwhelmingly in 1979 to add the 7th amendment to the constitution permitting all university graduates to be added to the electorate for the six university seats - but this has never been legislated for.