20% cut to fares for all public transport operators from April

thomasj

https://twitter.com/MichealLehane/status/1491846247619178502

good news.

Worth mentioning that the 20% cut is only for the rest of 2022

Furze99

I suppose it is kinda good news. But to be honest, sweet feck all use to large numbers of people living in rural Ireland. Because basically there is no public transport.

It's a curious solution - the people most affected by rising petrol & diesel costs are the ones who are ignored. That said, you have to be resigned to the fact that it just costs more & more every time you fill up now - but what is galling is to hear politicians wringing their hands whilst Revenue creams in substantial duties and VAT on said fuels, never mind carbon taxes...

I suspect rural TDs will be getting their ears burnt.

bk

Interesting to see how this will impact the new 90 minute ticket. The 90 minute fare is supposed to go up to €2.50 in a few months. 20% off that would make it the ideal €2

Perhaps an oppurtunity to get rid of the stupid short fare and make it just a flat €2 fare?

thomasj

https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1491863108251439105?t=rf-rki0F3IzIMVDaVQ7e0w&s=08

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612457#Comment_118612457

Hard to find sympathy for the majority of rural dwellers who built their own house and hence actually made the figurative bed they lie in.

A selective scheme to support those who live rurally because they work on the land would be fine but wouldn't help those who chose to ensure they didn't have public transport.

thomasj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612515#Comment_118612515

They might defer it . The 20% cut is only meant to be for the rest of 2022.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612535#Comment_118612535

Some of us have no choice where we work as we're in the public service.

My job is 35 km from my home and only accessible by car. I live near a town but there's no reliable bus service between towns

Zebra3

Is this all public transport?

Inter-city buses and trains, etc?

thomasj

i presume anything that is PSO.

So all of Dublin Bus, Go ahead, irish rail, luas, locallink and i presume Bus eireann except for expressway?

I could be wrong

Chris_5339762

PSO... Ryanair Kerry to Dublin or Donegal to Dublin? Wonder if they thought about that one!!

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612968#Comment_118612968

Ryanair are not PSO on that route. But I'd be certain it won't apply to the Donegal flights or the various PSO ferries as their fares are only capped not set

Hogzy

Cant afford a home in the city centre so I have to look at commuting satellite towns outside of Dublin which means I can only commute by car unless I spend 3.5hrs per day on a bus. Cant do that though due to child care facilities opening/closing hours.

Theyre not building much property in the cities anymore (that isnt build to let or social housing) because everyone is objecting to major schemes.

Its just all broken!

Peregrine

A very good move and one that will be very difficult to reverse next year.

howiya

Does this buy them time to have another look at trying to introduce a more flexible ticket for those who are working in the office one or two days a week?

Its a strange strategy. Climate and cost of living crises. Let's make people go back to commuting daily..

con___manx1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612535#Comment_118612535

Its kinda of hard not to be a rural dweller for some people with the cost of a **** box of a house in dublin costing close to half a million. I think you should have at least some sympathy for those people.

Its not just people who live in the back of beeonds that dont have good public transport but also large to medium size towns on the commuter belt to dublin.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612515#Comment_118612515

I don’t see a 25% fare increase for anyone making short journeys under 3km being even remotely politically acceptable.

LXFlyer

Reading the comments about rural bus services, obviously it is not possible to facilitate every journey, but it is fair to say that the NTA are attempting to address this issue.

Local Link services have seen a big expansion across the country in recent years with many routes which were previously once a week or once a day Bus Éireann services becoming multiple daily services under Local Link.

Late last year the NTA published their “Connecting Ireland” strategy which is all about delivering a big increase in regional services.

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/connecting-ireland/what-is-connecting-ireland/

There’s a link on that page to maps showing what is proposed for each county.

It is not something that will happen overnight, as it will involve acquiring new vehicles and hiring drivers but the plan is to start the rollout later this year and complete it within five years.

Glaceon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612930#Comment_118612930

I'm getting the bus in and out of work at the moment. I usually get the 101X in the morning and the 100X on the way home. The PSO 101X is currently €6.30 from Drogheda so this would drop it to about €5. The Expressway 100X is €9.50. At that price difference, I'd be tempted to just let it pass and get the next 101X on the way back!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612814#Comment_118612814

What is your problem with this. Just because you didn't get what you wanted it doesn't make this a bad thing.

zell12

I'd say private bus operators are in a huff about this. Particularly ones on similar routes to BÉ. They would have grounds to sue the government for unfair competition subsidies, no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615277#Comment_118615277

Not everyone lives in a city or even a town with a half reliable transport link.

If I were to rely on a bus to get to work I just couldn't.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615336#Comment_118615336

Ya but it doesn't make this wrong. It wasn't a one or the other choice where it was this or help the rural people they could have done both.

You surely should be angry that the government didn't help rural drivers rather than vent your anger at this which will help many people.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615278#Comment_118615278

They are welcome to offer discounts if they so wish and they often do

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615408#Comment_118615408

Who says I'm angry.

Im just pointing out the facts

loyatemu

any chance they could bring forward the promised 50% student discount as well?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615434#Comment_118615434

Sorry fair enough I took you up wrong.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615278#Comment_118615278

Remember that it is only BÉ PSO services that this will apply to. Expressway routes are commercial and as such this won’t apply to them.

You are not looking at a lot of routes where both PSO and private commercial operators compete with one another.

Where they do the BÉ PSO routes may take longer due to serving places that would otherwise not have a bus service.

Peregrine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615278#Comment_118615278

They don't have a leg to stand on. The NTA is free to set its fares at whatever price it sees fit.

They also shouldn't be in direct competition. The closest would be express private routes vs stopping Bus Éireann routes or express bus vs Irish Rail.

bk

"They might defer it . The 20% cut is only meant to be for the rest of 2022."

Well deferring it wouldn't be much of a cut, that would end up being just a 8% cut.

It needs to be one of the following to be fair:

2.50 - 20% = €2

2.30 - 20% = €1.84

Anything else would be a rip off by the NTA.

"I don’t see a 25% fare increase for anyone making short journeys under 3km being even remotely politically acceptable."

Well so far the 3km short fare has actually only be rolled out to two corridros so far and even then there is zero information on what it covers, so I suspect most people entitled to it don't know about it or use it anyway.

The NTA have really messed up these new fares and it is time they fix it.

zell12

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118615710#Comment_118615710

An example is Galway City where City Direct directly compete with Bus Eireann on three city routes. They both use the Leap Card system. Or Galway commuter towns where Burkes compete with Bus Eireann. Or Kilkenny City routes, which is privately run on behalf of the NTA. All seem to be excluded from this initiative.

It would be viewed as state subsidies being provided against private competitors

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616488#Comment_118616488

City Direct cover areas of the city and routes which Bus Eireann pretend don't even exist. So not really directly competition.

Still I reckon they and the public will be rightfully annoyed.

People living in "Lower Knocknacarra" are getting subsidised fares already and a price cut.

Poorer people living "Upper Knocknacarra" don't and aren't.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616488#Comment_118616488

The Kilkenny City routes are PSO services and will be therefore covered by the fare reduction. It doesn’t matter who operates them - the State is paying for them.

Burkes have very limited competition from Bus Eireann PSO services.

The 52 and 64 are both commercial Expressway routes so are not covered by this announcement.

The 429 and 456 are PSO but the 429 is one departure per day and the 456 has five. Not exactly massive competition to Burkes.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616483#Comment_118616483

OK I will rephrase. The 1-3 stage fare still exists - increasing that would go down like a lead balloon politically. Plenty of people still use it.

I totally agree about the comms on the fares by the NTA - appalling doesn’t even come close.

TranslatorPS

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616488#Comment_118616488

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616578#Comment_118616578

While City Direct cover Cappagh Road, Western Distributor Road, and Clybaun Road pretty much by themselves, they do also attempt to compete on the Salthill corridor, and the 411/412 routing as far as the Bishop O'Donnell Road x Rahoon Road junction is a carbon copy of the 405. In saying that, City Direct is 52 cent dearer than BE on a Leap Card Adult Single already (€1.68 vs €2.20), so I think it's just those determined on time that bother getting City Direct when they can get the Bus Eireann service - and this shows particularly on outbound services where very few get off a 411 service before its unique section on Rahoon Road (then again it helps that the 405 and City Direct Eyre Square stops are separate).

Well, the difference is going to sting even further, as a 20% discount on €1.68 brings it down to €1.34 or €1.35 - a full 85-86c cheaper. I know I'm not a happy camper here (City Direct is the only operator I have within less than 20 minutes' walking distance).

City Direct in Kilkenny however is a PSO service contracted like Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, or Go-Ahead, as another poster has mentioned, so one should fully expect them to be covered by the 20% drop.

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118616838#Comment_118616838

So it amounts to a kick in the teeth for Burkes customers, who won't get something that other public transport users are getting.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617075#Comment_118617075

Well Burkes is a commercial service.

Burkes spotted an opportunity for a commercial bus service where the State wasn’t providing one and operate a decent frequency service with no subsidy.

Are you suggesting that the State should subsidise every single commercial operator and thereby effectively take over all transport?

Where do you draw the line with an argument like that? The government can only control fares on services that it pays for.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617075#Comment_118617075

Burke's can always drop their price too.

B2021M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617243#Comment_118617243

Maybe that wouldn't be commercially viable for them?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617277#Comment_118617277

Well there are commercial buses charging less than Bus Eireann so should the state sue them ?

The amount of bitterness and selfishness around this is unreal. All day here and on the radio people trying to rip it apart because it doesn't save them money.

B2021M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617651#Comment_118617651

If a commercial operator can run a route cheaper than Bus Eireann that tells you a lot about how Blue Eireann is run.

What do you mean by the second paragraph?

StreetLight

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617801#Comment_118617801

It tells me Bus Eireann are willing to pay decent wages for good drivers whose remit is to provide a public service. This is as opposed to a privateer whose bottom line is money and who cut and ran from their customers during the pandemic. You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

B2021M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617880#Comment_118617880

Fair enough but the service will clearly cost more. Plenty of people are happy that they can pay less on private providers too.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617801#Comment_118617801

I mean all day people have been ripping into this because they get nothing out of it as if because it doesn't suit them it should be scrapped.

I'm not paying bills but you don't hear me say fk that €200 cause its no good to me.

B2021M

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118618073#Comment_118618073

I agree with you on that.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617880#Comment_118617880

There's a very simple explanation for the reason that state funded companies continued to run large numbers of services in our towns and cities during the worst of the pandemic and fully commercial operators didn't.

Bus Eireann Town and City services, like Dublin Bus got significant levels of cash poured to them from the Government via the NTA to keep their services running, whereas the fully commercial operators got very little (and some got nothing at all) in comparison.

I know some people want to turn this into an ideological crusade, but it's not rocket science to work out that if a company handed large sums of money by a taxpayer in difficult times, it is going to find it easier to run services than companies that get nothing.

Also did I miss Go-Ahead cutting and running from their services? Why do you think they didn't, since they are a so called privateer?

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118617651#Comment_118617651

What the other poster is talking about, is that in simple terms under EU law, a Government cannot be seen to be funding a state company to compete against a private enterprise, it would fall under all sorts of issues in relation to illegal state aid and not providing a fair marketplace.

In reality there are very little commercial services that truly compete with PSO funded services. There might be some overlap in terms of routing but generally the routes tend to be quite different in terms of structure, length and speed of service, directness of route, limited stop vs frequent stops etc.

I do think that we should all be welcoming these fare reductions on publicly funded transport networks. I understand that some people are upset that they will not benefit if they use services that are not publicly funded but that is just the way the cookie crumbles. I doubt these people would be saying it's not fair on BE customers if they got something that the BE pax didn't.

As LXFlyer has said, there is no chance that you will be seeing the transfer fare in Dublin going to €2.50 anytime soon after this, never say never, but I can't see this happening this year now. It would be politically suicide for the Government to do that, and I would expect Ms Graham in the NTA will know that and use it as leverage to get whatever funding the NTA needs to keep it lower.

LXFlyer

Actually I was referring to the suggested abolition of the short fare by another poster.

But I agree with you - increasing the transfer fare from €2.30 to €2.50 would have caused uproar.

I’m not sure I quite share your confidence as to the political nous of the NTA based on recent developments, but you’d like to think that someone there could read the room.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118619028#Comment_118619028

I know one well connected person whom all along has maintained that the increase to €2.50 after a promotional period was because the NTA were not guaranteed the amount of funding that they felt was needed to keep it at the lower amount.

Whilst that still might be the case, recent signs have shown that perhaps the NTA are not as politically astute as they should be as you say so I'm very much on the fence with this one. I can see it from both sides. but the thing that is certain that is going to €2.50 anytime soon must surely be dead in the water. I don't see how any transport authority anywhere could defend it on top of the 20% discount being removed.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118612535#Comment_118612535

Damn those people who built my 'one off' house over 150 years ago.

xtradel

What date in April does this begin. I've been checking Galway-Dublin trains for the 5th April but no changes in prices yet, same as when I checked last week.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118619472#Comment_118619472

I wonder will they give 20% off the discounted early booking price or just the lot rate. Hopefully they do and its most likely gonna just take them a few days to sort out the site but there is also a chance they cant update the site till April