Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Extension quote

124»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭screamer


    I completely agree, it’s awful. If our crew threw that up, they’d be made take it back down and rebuild (well they wouldn’t anyways as they’re professionals). It’s unfortunate but people don’t care about the blockwork at all, it’s cheapest price gets it. More interest in the powder and paint than the structure. Then you hear about cowboys, in construction, doing people out of their money…. Well, as in all things. If it’s too good to be true it probably is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Another contraction in PMI for construction and the first glimmer of hope as input costs come down in January. With more interest rates hikes scheduled for this year the cost of building will come down as the higher costs to borrow for buying or get work done with the interest rate rises is now quelling demand.


    https://www.pmi.spglobal.com/Public/Home/PressRelease/40d6285607ed451cb1f40d6f927e95eb



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,668 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Sorry guys, I've been out of ireland since NEw year so apologies for lack of update/response.

    Thanks to whoever spotted the lean on the upstairs brickwork - it was rectified

    Ground/floor first floor are replastered, painting next week.

    ground floor floors going down next week, kitchen to follow.

    Sanitary wares going in next week aswell


    2nd floor bedroom is the last "big" piece of work, it has to be plastered.

    I'll get my wife to get some pictures next week.


    Given our problem with the original builder, I couldn't be happier with our current on tbh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 554 ✭✭✭brownbinman


    If you're Dublin based, can you DM the builders details?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 470 ✭✭Shutuplaura


    Random question...I don't actually want to start a thread on it. Builders are asking for a fifty euro fee to just come out and look at my house and submit a quite for the extension I am hoping to build. Is this common in Dublin? I appreciate that there are lots of time wasters...but it seems a bit cheeky.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭enricoh


    Seems reasonable to me. Know a lad that does patios he charges e100 to give a quote. Knocks it off the job if he gets the gig.

    Gets rid of tyre kickers n he would have good ideas, cost saving tips etc from 20+ years experience.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Tell them to do one. I have 5 construction crews chomping at the bit to come and have a look at an extension I am building there is more competition and less work then they realize it might take another 6 to 12 months for the penny to drop on them. Wait 12 months and I bet they will be ringing you to see if you want the work done this has been my experience from a construction crew who quoted me at the start of the year and his price has come down by 5% when he rang me back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    It not reasonable at all. They come out look at what needs to be done and if they want the job they price accordingly. This is like charging a customer to have a look at the menu.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭enricoh


    He reckoned he spent 3-4 hours driving to n fro, meeting customer, pricing stuff n doing quote. Diesel n maybe tolls too.

    He had no bother losing out to another lad doing paving but a lot of them never went ahead, or got tarmac, decking etc instead. In which case they were just wasting his time. I think he had a fair point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    That is the cost of doing business, the person looking to get the job done gets zero in return for any fee paid. Anyone paying this are bonkers, work is drying up and there are more construction workers available. have a look at sites like Bark.ie that will have a pro nearer to you or the SCSI website for a general guide for pricing.

    https://scsi.ie/consumer/build/calculator/


    Your forgetting the cost of the cowboy spurs this construction lad has to buy. As I say its like a restaurant owner billing you for viewing his menu.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭denismc


    For those of you that got extensions done, were you able to stay in the house while the work was been done or was it a case of moving out and renting somewhere?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4 SineadMc80


    Hello 👋 just reading thread. Also looking to buy and everything needs renovation of course. Would be grateful if you would also pm me your builder you used for South Dublin. Thanks so much, Sinéad



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,668 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Will post some pictures later, we’re just about done. And will ask the builder his situation on work



  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Scoopsire


    If you could pass along the builders details too please south Dublin based, if that works for them

    Looking forward to seeing the pictures.

    Great that its almost done!

    Post edited by Scoopsire on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,668 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Couldn’t get upstairs today due to carpets.

    Some of the pictures are a week or so old.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Construction still contracting now 6 months in a row and 9 out of the last 10 months have seen the PMI negitive. Keep holding out the next 12 months will force construction workers to drop their prices or hit the wall

    https://tradingeconomics.com/ireland/construction-pmi



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭Bracken81


    Seems very reasonable, as there are quite a lot of time waters in the construction game

    I know of several Architects/Engineers who also charge the same for a Call out/Quote

    I called out to South Dublin last week(I live in Meath), chatted with clients for 2 hours, sent a quotation and answered some questions on email, all in probably 5 hours of my time and I've Not even received a Thank you email!!! Some people!



  • Registered Users Posts: 401 ✭✭jiminho


    Not sure I agree. I would consider it an operating expense. You need to provide quotes in order to get work and get paid for that work. You’ll probably lose more than you win but the hope at the end of the day is your profit margin accounts for those operating expenses and at the end of the day, you/your company makes a tidy profit.

    If you were to start charging for quotes, you’d probably be making a tidy sum just for estimating work. Using your logic above, 2 quotes a day at 100E each, that’s approx 40k/annum. Granted you won’t have that level of turnover but hopefully you see my point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭Bracken81


    I wouldn't disagree, it is counter-intuitive to charge for callouts/quotes, as I don't do it myself

    But there are quite some amount of time wasters! Which can be soul destroying



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,111 ✭✭✭PMBC




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,484 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    It's a 203 x 203 I'd imagine. I don't believe there is a 175 x 175 or anything close to that listed.

    Edit, was referring to the end of the beam sticking out in 1st photo.

    Not certain what the one over the rear opening is.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭C3PO


    I’m not in the building game but I have many friends who are - all of them are absolutely flat out with at least 12-18 months work ahead of them. Along with the governments recent announcements, I wouldn’t be holding my breath for any significant drop in building prices - there is still massive pent up demand in the system!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Theoretically charging for quotes will reduce the amount of quotes you do, therefore removing people who are not committed and give you a more concentrated pipeline of prospective work.

    It could therefore cost less to do actual jobs as your dont have to waste time quoting for jobs that are probably not going to happen.

    The other side is you may be losing jobs because some people dont want to pay. personally im looking at extending but i dont want to pay a company to call and give me a ridiculous quote and massive lead time that wont work for me

    Maybe there is a role in technology to bridge the gap. Schedule a 30 minute consult by zoom where you can look at the area and give some answers and a rough quote, then for €100 or so you will do detailed quote and plans and use that commitment as a way to move forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Well I have had a half dozen builders out all quotes are now trending down the price I got this time last year to the lowest one I got is about 15% less than last year only one of the construction crews quoting was over last years quote I quickly told them where to go, 3 out of the other 5 have work on and the latest any of them can start is September and the other 2 can start during the summer June and July, the other 2 construction companies are able to start when I am willing to give the go ahead but I am now going back and seeing who can give the best price by playing them against each other. The pent up demand your seeing looks to have dissipated from what I can and the sums of this adds up to what I am seeing as - cost of living crisis + higher interest rates + builder price gouging = a serious contraction in work for the building game with regards to extensions. We can both give anecdotal evidence but the proof is in the pudding and point to a few metrics and real facts.

    So with that in mind


    Construction Output is down and this with a record number of new builds so the likes of extension and refurbs must be taking a massive hit if the new build output is up and has been trending upwards for the last 18 months.


    Construction PMI shrank in the last measure and has shrank 9 of the last 10 months.


    Irish consumer confidence is in the gutter for the last year and what happens when people lose confidence big ticket items go on the long finger.


    We have just (IMO as we need 2 quarters to be in a real recession) entering into a recession first Q1 2023 shows a big decline in GDP so even do 1/4 of all taxes coming in is in corpo tax and this little well of money is and will be drying up as investment runs for the hills as interest rates keep going up and even with this huge boon Ireland is now in the negative when it comes to our GDP first quarter and guess what Q2 with another 3/4 interest rate hikes coming within that timeframe its not hard to see that we will be in a real (no longer technical) recession.



    Just one of many sites tracking cost of raw materials with the exception of plasterboard the majority of all other construction materials have either declined or stabilized over the 9 to 12 months and from what I have seen prices are falling and the availability of construction companies seems to be on the up.


    Post edited by fliball123 on


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,668 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Moving in day today.

    Garden fencing and granite counter tops are left to do.

    I'm home for the first time in 5.5 months next week, so excited to see and find out what has been stressing my wife out so much..


    In other news, the first builder we had, left the other person he was doing work for high and dry. He personally had been banned from the site a few weeks ago, and then his "brother"( not sure if they actually are brothers tbh) who was the foreman turned up one day and said they were all leaving as they hadnt been paid in weeks. The builders QS also called the person and said regardless of what he says dont pay him anymore money. He's in spain it seems.

    Will post some pics when i get back next week



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭screamer


    looks good.

    as for costs, construction workers are in line for a pay rise in a few weeks. That combined with the fact there are fewer lads at it with every passing year means prices will not drop substantially any time soon. As for charging to price a job, why not, they spend their time and fuel to come and look at the job and price it, no one’s time is free, does anyone work for free? Didn’t think so! also, plenty of home owners are the biggest time wasters, so better off to charge for pricing than deal with tyre kickers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    That's the cost of them doing work if the job is too far away they should just say no to the customer and should only consider going for jobs that are within range if there are no jobs in range then they will have to compete for the business.


    Also have you any evidence of a dwindling work force in construction or are you like others on here all mouth and no substance as the recent CSO figures would tell a different story - ye know some actual fact. 40K increase in construction workers in 2022 or an addional 31.4% working in the sector


    CSO Data


    So instead of you having a thought and spouting absolute garbage try putting some meat on the bones. It is obvious some on here have an agenda behind what they are sh1tting about. What we do know is that with rising interest rates and a cost of living crisis people who were in the market for an extension have been priced out of it and that is reflected in the construction PMIs and construction outputs. So now have more workers in the sector and less extension jobs actually been done what do you think that will do to price ??. The main reason why a lot of people have turned from potential customer to a tyre kicker is the gouging going on and the unbelievable prices some builders are putting on jobs. Sure how can you have a scenario where a builder comes out to price a job while they have work on and cannot possible do the job and they really don't fancy the job and its a small extension and being the hungry fecks they quote "a million to do it there lad, ye know war in Ukraine, price of materials blah blah" and when the potential customer says too expensive the builder can ask for a payment for pricing the job, Your having a laugh aren't you, the gouging going on is disgusting with out this going on.

    Post edited by fliball123 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,986 ✭✭✭enricoh


    I think a bricky must have scored an old flame on ya filibal -the hatred is real!

    I don't work in the building game so no skin off my nose, but I've plenty of mate's who do n they are all flat out.

    Look there's a lot of chancers in construction, always was n always will be. 10 year ago lads were working for buttons, as a result there's a big shortage of builders now n they are laying it on thick.

    There was a 30% increase in construction workers last year- were they laid off for covid? No young fellas I know want to know about sites , if I hear another one say they want to be a p.e teacher or personal trainer I'll scream!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Ah nothing like has happened Enricoh, I just don't like it when lads here don't like official figures and a site like SCSI stating what prices should be and them trying to dictate a policy of you will pay what we want or else. The guys working in construction and in particular the extension end of things are facing into a serious contraction as can be seen by the figures I put up and with interest rates rising work in this sector will be getting a lot scarcer. I was going to go ahead with my project this year but in all honesty I can only see prices flatlining in the next 12/24 months. Its like property prices no one thought we would see price decreases with the demand out there but when access to cheap credit is limited by the higher and higher rates (next interest rate rise coming tomorrow BTW) this is exactly what is currently happening..

    So just for transparency with regards to your question about losing labour during Covid the official CSO data shows that from Q2 2019 to Q2 2021 construction workers were down 13% or down by a little over 18k and then between Q2 2021 and Q2 2022 it went right back up by 31.4% or just over 40k more workers in construction. There has also been an active campaign drive to bring workers in to the sector from abroad from this time last year so I can predict that Q2 2023 will see another substantial increase in workers in the sector (but no proof yet) .



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 259 ✭✭society4


    i agree with you. Hopefully builders will be more realistic and people should hold off until these silly quotes stop…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭C3PO


    It may happen …… but likely not in the near future. Too much pent up demand and the new government grants on top of the existing ones will keep prices high for the foreseeable future! Quoting overall figures of an increasing construction workforce mean nothing if the additional workers are involved in commercial work rather than small domestic refurbs and extensions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,803 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Planning permission in the pre planning or planning process within a three kilometres of me in county Galway currently stands at approximately 350 units across about 4 estates. 110 odd of them due to start shortly after planning approved 12 months ago. Council recently bought all 110 units off developer plans( these were originally meant for the open market) Council planning another estate of one hundred odd houses nearby on their own land having bought 50 odd houses from a new development in the past 24 months.

    Damn near impossible get planning for a one off house.

    Housing list in the electoral area alone requires 1500 odd units. Councils told to solve it, state has a few additional billion coming in over the next few years.

    I again don't see house prices dropping locally in the short term or near any big city. There's a massive amount of building coming, a limited number of trades people and a client (the state or housing charities)mopping up massive amounts of new builds squeezing the availability to anyone not on a housing list. That coupled with high employment, more major job announcements locally and I think that anyone in the extension only game would have no issue making as much or more coin in the new build game should people tighten the purse strings in that area.

    Am not condoning any of this. The market and states priorities are a shambles but don't be fooled in thinking if I wait six months or a year things will be cheaper. Credit will also be harder access.

    Eventually and hopefully supply will catch up with demand but I don't see that till at least the housing lists are cut significantly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Kippy your statement about not seeing house prices dropping in any big city has already been disproven well in the biggest city as in Dublin 6 monthly drops in prices already so they are dropping and the access to cheap credit now no longer being an option is the straw breaking the camels back with regards to buying a property.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,803 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    I think the rate of increase has dropped, but property prices are not "dropping".



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,520 ✭✭✭fliball123


    No the actual price has dropped. That is 5 month on month drops in Dublin and that was up to the end of February this year. So be interesting to see what Q2 in 2023 brings but I cannot see them going up not with the access to cheap credit gone.


    https://businessplus.ie/industry-type/real-estate-property/dublin-house-prices/#:~:text=Average%20Dublin%20residential%20property%20prices,month%20decline%20in%20January%202023.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,803 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Thanks, I was under the impression that it was the percentage rises that had dropped.

    Will see how it pans out in Q2 alright when traditionally more houses come on stream.



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭happyplants


    If it helps on the general discussion about costs I have just had our own QS price our works. It's a 70m2 extension done in ICF in a fairly "architectural" style. I'm just using as shorthand as I'm struggling to understand the costs but it's not a straight forward square box. There is work to existing house in terms of creating a bathroom in a room upstairs and shortening existing bathroom to create a bigger room beside it, as well as a heating system upgrade. There's some work on existing ceilings to improve insulation. It's not simple but not massive.

    In short, the cost inc VAT was presented to us at c.500k. That included c.40k for the heating system (ground source HP, rads upgrade, new UFH in extension) and 26k for decoration. I'm just referring to those two as they leapt out at me. The one that really did it for me was a post-works French drain in the back garden (as in when garden reinstated, put in a drain cos it gets very wet) at 4k. As it turned out I had already done the drain myself just for something to do and I think I spent about 750 euro and did it over a weekend last month and it's worked superbly. Obviously I'm not saying it's a marker, but...

    I'm absolutely sick as we've put a lot of money into design already but there you go. Even the idea of paying 26k to paint a house (inside) is too much for me.

    And this is our QS before we tender.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 856 ✭✭✭raxy


    I went to shanette sheds recently & seen they do a steel frame extension. I only briefly spoke to the sales guy about it but they look OK & a lot cheaper than an extension.

    I've since noticed some of the garden room companies offering similar.

    Has anyone had something like that added instead of a traditional extension?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,493 ✭✭✭DC999




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭Col_30


    Our builders QS priced our job way higher than what we estimated with our architect. The builder was able to come down on every aspect to get to our budget. I wouldn’t worry too much about the QS report. Just go out to tender with it and negotiate with builders. The ridiculous QS pricing I believe is inflating things and putting people off going ahead with jobs that are actually more affordable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,548 ✭✭✭denismc


    What was the difference between what your Q.S quoted and your final building cost?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,330 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    We've been looking at doing an extension. Very modest c.30m2. Pretty much a square box add on with no fancy finishes or style. A small bit of works to integrate it into the existing house. Got quoted €140k! That's just for the building works and before we furnish it and kit it out with a new kitchen! Unbelievable. That's the end of that dream unfortunately.



  • Registered Users Posts: 88 ✭✭happyplants


    Sure but this my own QS, so neither him or the architect are really likely to go to bat when they already think it should cost what they are costing before we go to tender.



Advertisement