How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892718#Comment_118892718

Plenty of EV's that suit the majority of people, the fact you do 40km a year and do a 370km trip 3 times a week means you arent in the majority. So maybe not for your specific circumstances no.

But check the average speed of you 370km journey, its unlikely to be anywhere near 120kph.

In a few years a model 3 or vw id3 should be in that price range id imagine, or an ioniq5

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892768#Comment_118892768

There are more people than you think who are in the same situation as myself.

Im not sure how many years I’ll have to wait to get my hands on an affordable EV that can do what I’m looking for, but will I have a battery degradation issue on my hands then?

For the craic I looked up muxsan to see how much it would cost to get a replacement/upgraded battery for a first gen leaf plus fast charger fitted etc. The price is astronomical so that won’t work either!

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892795#Comment_118892795

the majority of people arent, and you know that. Annual average mileage is less than half what you do and average trip lengths are less than 20km.

Battery degradation isnt the issue the uninformed make it out to be either, its more of an urban myth used by EV detractors.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892891#Comment_118892891

Oh I get ya I’m uninformed.

Catch you at a bad time or something ffs 🙄

Mr. teddywinkles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892902#Comment_118892902

Lots of dubs on here that never leave the pale 🙂

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892902#Comment_118892902

im great thanks, just responding to your posts. Is that ok with you?

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892920#Comment_118892920

Apparently.

Ya have to be careful what ya ask around here some lads don’t take kindly to a simple question.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892920#Comment_118892920

Yeah sure why dont we look at every anecdotal reason why an EV couldnt work instead of using the macro information that shows it does for a majority of people.

If you want to buy one or not i couldnt care less, but lets at least start with some reasonable information.

And im not a Dub, and go into the Ioniq5 thread and youll see lots of people outside dublin have bought them, imagine that.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892946#Comment_118892946

Your a bit touchy.

Maybe you need to relax?

I only asked about battery degradation and I’m being told I’m uninformed?

That’s kinda the point about asking a question, so that you gain knowledge.

whippet

it is all a pretty irrelevant discussion anyway. The future of personal motoring is moving away from ICE .... how long will it take ? I don't know but if you look at the % of new cars sold with some form of plug in battery it is obviously climbing rapidly.

The manufactures will produce more EVs and possibly PHEVs which in turn will make the ICE variants more expensive (economies of scale) to produce / maintain / service and of course governmental taxes and duties to encourage EVs.

There is no point arguing over specific use case scenarios like the fella who needs a 4x4 off roader that will carry 5 passengers with a Tow hitch, 60kg roofbox and go non-stop for 1300km ... as maybe one in 40000 people have this requirement.

3 years ago I would never have thought that I'd be able to get by with an EV ... now I am confident that I can get rid of ICE and go EV for both our cars. We do approx 40,000km between the two cars each year and if I need to spend 20 mins on a long journey topping up so be it.

The new generation of EVs from the Niros, IDs right up to the EV6s will be on the second hand market in the next couple of years (a lot of PCP out there) and will be a valid option for those who don't buy new cars.

It will happen by osmosis almost .. but don't tell that to the guys who believe they will reside in the ICE camp for ever

Chris_5339762

For me, I can do 1000km on one tank of diesel if I'm careful. Thats Cork to Belfast and back.

Most of my driving is commuting - 60km roundtrip per day. My employer won't give WFH at all, so thats a problem. That is perfect for an EV, and we have solar panels at home so a free charge could be done.

But I regularly do 500km daytrips at weekends. Up hills and into west Cork and all those places with no infrastructure. Thats why I won't buy an EV just yet. Once the range gets to 600 or 700km then yes. But for now, I'll keep my diesel until infrastructure and range improve. Just hope we don't actually have diesel shortages.

The only other option is to buy an EV and use that for work, taking my parents Toyota Hybrid petrol on long journeys. But its an expensive option, and a Toyota hybrid is nowhere near as fun as my Opel Astra.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892955#Comment_118892955

im touchy 😂 good lad. Im not touchy at all, i was trying to offer some context, you have made your mind up, thats fine, i could care less what you drive to be honest. But grow up a bit with the personal stuff, no need for it.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892994#Comment_118892994

😂 wow.

nothing personal there at all.

I’ve already stated I’d love an EV but it doesn’t suit.

Take it easy and chill man.

life’s too short to be getting upset.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893048#Comment_118893048

wow indeed, you said i am touchy, mentioned you must have got me at a bad day, that i need to relax, these are all personal comments.

So take it easy, dont be fretting yourself about how anyone else is doing and focus on yourself.

Hopefully you get an ev that suits your specific needs at some point in the future.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893098#Comment_118893098

Good man best of luck.

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892592#Comment_118892592

Things like this or any major event will be an issue alright, there are no chargers anywhere near Pairc Ui Chaoimh in Cork for instance, Tesla put in 4 superchargers last year at Mahon point but that's not walking distance to a match and no-one is going to be leaving a match mid game to move their car. Its gas when its undergone major renovations recently enough and an old ESB power station right beside it.

In reality a lot more people will need to take public transport or stay overnight but there were plenty of NI reg cars around Cork when they were playing one of the northern teams a few weeks ago so you could imagine every charge point off the motorway being jammers on the way home in the future, not what you need if your team is just after losing 😄

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892981#Comment_118892981

Funny you mention PCP there, with the way things have gone in the 2nd hand market things could be funny in a year or 2. If someone gets to the end of their PCP they could easily end up with €5k+ (possibly a good bit more) in equity to get another new yoke. Or they'll have the option to buy a 3 year old car they've already had for 3 years for way, wayyy below what the "market" price will be. After several years of seeing people posting about how PCP would be the new mortgage crisis it's kinda funny to see things going the other way.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892678#Comment_118892678

OK,let's try to be civil here,I've wanted to have a debate with some EV enthusiasts for a while.The holes in arguments and (as I see it) lack of understanding of other people's situations bothers me so I can get a bit snarky so apologies for that.

The example I gave is a situation I'd be in most weekends from January to April ie traveling to matches all over the country,massive numbers travel together for these matches almost all exclusively by car and a lot of the time very long distances,from one end of the country to the other.This is not including other non football related weekends away,medical appointments etc.

Using the football scenario the infrastructure isn't there to support even 5% of those cars being EV.I don't know about your claim that a 15 min charge would bring you from Mayo to Tralee and back (a 700 or 800km round trip in winter in this case) If it did I'm imagining it wouldnt be in 7 year old leaf anyway (an older leaf is often the retort when I say I can't put myself in debt to buy an EV)

Funnily enough,my partner has expressed an interest in an EV and an old leaf might even work for her (just about) as her commute is about 100km round trip.Id be happy enough to dip the toe in the EV market and try this out as long as we had a diesel car to do other journeys. Unfortunately this isn't an option as we live in a terraced house in a town.

I feel I'm not alone in not being eligible for an EV for a myriad of reasons,I think a lot or even most of the country would have similar or other obstacles.I think having these real life scenarios dismissed riles people up.I can see things from the point of view of somebody who has an EV and it meets 100% of their needs,I can't understand why that person can't see things from other people's points of view (ie those who an EV won't work for currently)

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892983#Comment_118892983

Ì'm not sure why some people think that because they do high mileage or whatever that EVs are threfore not a solution.

The reality is that there is a massive climate issue happening and everyone will need to make changes and they won't all be small changes. Whilst it is true that an EV does not suit you for all trips, you cannot continue doing long distances with an ICE. Is there a reason other than convenience that you could not do the Cork/Belfast trip in an EV?

That said, I don't think EVs are the answer...

https://twitter.com/JohnLeePettim13/status/1509228228019466243

It is just a pity that the recent IPCC report was pretty much ignored by the media who chose to run with stories of one man slapping another at a poxy awards show.

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892795#Comment_118892795

I do a long trip maybe once a month, or at a push twice a month. We have an EV. But couldnt have an EV as our only car due to that one trip.

But one thing you will notice that any time anyone has an issue which prevents them using buying an EV it gets dismissed by current EV owners and they will throw out all sorts of ridiculous solutions, ending with that you should be more like them and an EV would wuit you.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893338#Comment_118893338

Other than you having to take a break while it charges, why not?

JimmyVik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893355#Comment_118893355

See what I mean about trotting out stuid solutions:)

Heres one and they doint even know where, when, or any other details at all of the trip.

Im not even going to go into the issues ... again ..

appledrop

An article by the Sunday Independent motor columnists confirmed everything I've always said about EV.

He was testing driving I think the brand new Skoda EV which is meant to be one of best and he couldn't even drive to Kilkenny and back from Dublin without a charge.

What an absolute joke.

The car 'supposedly' does over 500km + he had it fully charged up but the reality was different.

If its cold, have to use heating, aircon, motorway driving etc saps the battery.

In reality it was giving him only around 300km and he couldn't risk it cutting out so had to stop off for a charge.

Oh and all this for bonus price of something like 55k, while you sit in car with no heat or technology in case it cuts out.

F&&k that.

I have a long daily commute in rural area , haven't a hope of charging point near work+ the thoughts of being in car and not knowing if your battery will run out or not depending on weather conditions, road use etc would do my head in.

They are grand for people in urban areas that only go down the road, but that's not the reality for a lot of people.

I'll keep my 3 year old diesel that I've fully paid for thanks very much.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118893389#Comment_118893389

They're also grand for a huge amount of rural drivers who never or extremely rarely do 100km in a day. Better range on R roads too.

Just launched today, the govt's Sustainable Mobility Policy

The Sustainable Mobility Policy will play a key role in supporting Ireland’s goal to half its greenhouse gas emissions by 2030. It will make it easier for people to choose walking, cycling and public transport daily instead of having to use a petrol or diesel car. The policy’s action plan to 2025 includes actions to improve and expand sustainable mobility options across the country by providing safe, green, accessible and efficient alternatives to car journeys. It also includes demand management and behavioural change measures to manage daily travel demand more efficiently and to reduce the journeys taken by private car.

To achieve Ireland’s targeted 51% emissions reduction by 2030, the plan aims to deliver at least 500,000 additional daily active travel and public transport by 2030 and a 10% reduction in the number of kilometres driven by fossil fuelled cars.

Key action areas in the policy include:

• Improving the safety of walking, cycling and public transport networks and making them more accessible for all users.
• Moving the public transport fleet to low and zero emission vehicles.
• Commencing delivery of BusConnects in our cities and Connecting Ireland in rural areas.
• Improving rail infrastructure and services.
• Introducing a more attractive fare structure.
• Reallocating road space to prioritise walking, cycling and public transport.
• Adopting a transport-orientated approach to housing development to place new housing close to public transport.
• Making it easier to switch between different modes.

New measures will also be put in place to improve the delivery of sustainable mobility policy including:

• A Leadership Group to drive implementation of the policy and agree a programme of ‘pathfinder’ projects at local level.
• A new annual National Household Travel Survey.
• A new National Sustainable Mobility Forum to engage with stakeholders.
• A public engagement strategy to promote the benefits of sustainable mobility and raise public awareness of options

Press release

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/dd807-irelands-new-sustainable-mobility-policy-is-a-priority-in-our-climate-and-energy-use-plans-for-the-future/

Policy document

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/220898/a538f81a-cf99-48c6-bf98-ce524f132c37.pdf#page=null

Action Plan

https://www.gov.ie/pdf/?file=https://assets.gov.ie/220900/f64bdce8-c407-4ff2-9374-cbef88f39874.pdf#page=null

There's a lot of interesting items in the action plan which will be of interest to many in this thread as it may offer a way of avoiding some of the fuel costs

iColdFusion

The ironic thing in all of this is I went from a GTD to an R in 2020 with working from home and its actually prepared me for an EV more than anything, I get less than 500km to a tank and when it goes to reserve I really need to think about finding a petrol station 😄

Overall I think at least 80% of people would be perfectly happy in an EV, as long as it has the right badge or image they don't care how it is powered or drives.

Popoutman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892556#Comment_118892556

Please, you should know better than to behave like that.

Just because I have particular requirements does not mean that my requirements are "extreme", nor does it allow you so **** all over those requirements. My point is not any less valid for being an outlier than any other - and I've specified that it's for *my* use case. I haven't tried to "normalise" it - that's your failure to comprehend that someone else has a use case that you can't stuff EV down the throat of. I can't help you understand that my use case is important to me, and if you choose to fail to look at things from my (perfectly valid) point of view it makes you look like a dick. Again.

You didn't like how I describe that EVs are more damaging due to their weight, well, again, I can only assume that you are not the type of person that can understand simple physics. Oh well.

Popoutman

and @whippet - I bought my current ICE motor for significantly less than the price of a new Golf - and for 2/3 the price of any of the VW EV cars. It does make me feel warm and fuzzy that even with the C02 output of that car, I still am way ahead of any new EV for total carbon emissions, and will be for the planned lifetime of that vehicle for me.

I'm happy for you that you're one of the few that can currently use an EV well. There are many more that can't, or there's nothing out there available for them - just remember that and be cognisant of those that cannot afford to pay that much to end up in the same place they currently are.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118894236#Comment_118894236

I'd put the figure a bit higher than 80%. Trouble is that people who drive a lot and are into cars are the loudest and that gets through. So on one side are the dweebs talking about electric cars while on the other it's "RRRRRRRRRRRRR cars VRROOOOOM" and there are a lot more of them.

I even think of people like my cousin, she's on the road probably 4 hours a day with the kids but in terms of distance I very much doubt she'd hit 100km in a day too often. And even she's a fairly extreme example.

There are massive numbers of cars in the countryside that even on 2 trips a day won't hit 100km. Same in the towns, the amount of cars sitting idle for 23+ hours a day is huge. The next car I have (like the last one) will be got based on my needs and the expense. I was able to get a new car last year for under €15k as the nominal price and it's likely worth more now and it runs on LPG which seems to be cheaper than (or roughly on par with) public charging per kilmetre which is a nice bonus. :P I'll buy an electric car when it makes sense but right now by subsidising one side of the market it's allowed the other side of the market to stay more competitive, even as fuel prices have risen.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118894874#Comment_118894874

congrats on getting yourself riled up for nothing ..... I have zero issue with anyone driving an ICE ...you have totally misrepresented my post. It is not the norm to require a 4x4 with off road capability, tow hitch and the ability to do 1200km in comfort without stopping. It is an extreme.

I've said all along that EV isn't for everyone at the moment - however there are many people out there who think EV isn't an option when it is.