How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

whippet

my move to an EV wasn't primarily based on the savings in fuel ... it really was just accepting that for most people there isn't a need for an ICE anymore .. so when it came to changing cars I looked at EV options rather than ICE options. I do have a PHEV also and it served a purpose - but now that there are much better options in the more premium section of EVs when I go to change that it will be to an EV. As far as I'm concerned any mile that is driven without tail pipe emissions is positive.

Seth Brundle

It clearly is part of their remit though and has been for a very long time through eCars since 2010 nevermind every kW of power to an electric car goes through their network.

The ESB exists to produce and supply electricity. eCars is just a programme that they have to encourage electricity usage - its just a sales programme to be honest.

https://www.esb.ie/who-we-are/our-story/our-purpose

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890092#Comment_118890092

and if you exist to produce and supply electricity would you not be pretty focused on the new big demand area for that product?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888560#Comment_118888560

same for me, well put.

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888560#Comment_118888560

Will you have EV cars only then? I found people touting the perfection of EVs on here (not you) usually have a second car in the household that is ICE or plugin hybrid but they aren't so quick to mention that. The point I'm trying to make is that with the current infrastructure and battery technology EVs are good for only certain types of journeys and most would struggle or at least be quite restricted without a more traditional vehicle as well. At the moment do you ever find yourself taking the PHEV instead of the EV? If so why?

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888380#Comment_118888380

Understand where you are coming from, but all governments have to be seen to be trying to encourage the population to lower their carbon footprint, and reduce the country's emissions. To do that they will have to spend taxpayers money.

The same way they spend tax payers money on things like programmes to stop people smoking, trying to keep the population healthy, or paying incentives or money towards arts. You could say none of these things deserve taxpayers money either.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890185#Comment_118890185

with the current infrastructure and battery technology EVs are good for only certain types of journeys and most would struggle or at least be quite restricted without a more traditional vehicle as well.

Can you expand on this? I'm curious as to what kinds of journeys households would be doing where they could not be completed by EV's but could be done by ICE's. I'm presuming you are talking about like-for-like models here so I'm struggling to think of any journey types that comparable EV's couldn't do. Maybe there's some I just can't think of any

MadYaker

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890237#Comment_118890237

I never said journeys couldn't be completed with an EV so I'm not going to expand on a point I wasn't making. I just asked the poster a question.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890271#Comment_118890271

I thought the quoted text of yours was quite clear as to what you were stating but up to you, I was just curious

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890185#Comment_118890185

We have one car and it’s an ev

creedp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890199#Comment_118890199

The Govt already significantly subsidise EV uptake with no Vrt for lower priced cars and a €5k subsidy for cars up to €60k. Maybe investing in the public charging infrastructure be a more effective way of incentivising uptake?

Like all subsidies they benefit some more than others. Currently the grant approach primarily benefits people in a position to purchase new EVs and who have access to home charging.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890474#Comment_118890474

Doesn’t need to be a new car to avail of the grant , and to be fair the people it benefits are the people it should benefit .

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890185#Comment_118890185

At the moment I'll take the PHEV as it's a fun car to drive ... it's a G20 330e MSport Plus ... it's just a nice car to drive - totally different to the leaf which is more akin to a golf cart.

this time next year I reckon we will be an EV only household ... pending a test drive I intend to swap the 330e for a BMW i4 .

and I definitely won't be parting with €75k or so to save money ...

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890534#Comment_118890534

The grant only applies to new car purchases up to €60,000. The VRT relief applies to new cars and used imports and tails off between €40,000 and €50,000

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118891589#Comment_118891589

I thought he was referring to the home charger grant.

Figures released by SIMI show a similar story to other recent reports, EV purchases are up close to 100% year-over-year

https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/electric-car-sales-double-as-more-than-6000-sold-so-far-in-2022-41511118.html

Popoutman

For me, and my particular use case, there are no EVs that currently fill the requirements.

I want moderate to good offroad ability, roofrack capacity for at least 60kg, a removable ball-hitch, 600litres or more of rear luggage capacity when carrying 5 adults, a high level of decent comfort inside, and the ability to go trans-Europe without too much hassle (I'm defining that as 1000km in under 11 hours, and no more than 90min total of stops; this is a typical holiday journey for me).

My current car recently allowed a 1400km journey in 16 hours - and there's not an EV on the planet that can do that yet. That journey was as a result of a cancelled ferry, so a long detour was then needed in order to make another set of ferries in order to make the wedding ceremony that we had been invited to. Had we been driving an EV, we would not have made the wedding. The likely best of the EVs (Model S long range) would do the same journey in ~20 hours with a max speed of 100kph to make the distance (as per evnavigation.com )

If anyone has a suggestion for an EV that meets all of those criteria, I'd be interested to know that. None of the Teslas meet the interior comfort requirement and the Tesla SUV-like has neither the offroad ability nor the ability for a roofrack. The newest BMW iX xD50M and the new Lotus SUV look like they'll meet all of the criteria except the range requirement, but at all insane money; hence it's a rich man's game still to get quality EVs, no matter what Whippet thinks above.

We all should also remember that fort most people, it's currently more environmentally friendly to purchase a used ICE car than to buy a new EV, for ownerships of three years and typical Irish annual distance travelled. I worked out the figures for a 2011 Cayenne Turbo versus a new Tesla Model S, and the total C02 output from construction and use is lower for the Cayenne up to (iirc) ~40000km driven.

I do look forwards to EVs fulfilling my use case, but until they can, I'll have to stick with ICEs. EVBs suit many people that can afford it, I can afford it, but it's not yet right for me.

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118890185#Comment_118890185

I’m struggling to think of many people who absolutely could not get by without an ICE. We’re a single car family, EV only for almost 2.5 years, no PHEV and with four young children, prams, bikes, etc. The car does work trips, school runs, sports training, GAA matches, trips right across the country to visit grand parents, random holidays in Ireland, etc and we’ve never had a problem.

The only caveat is that we have home charging. I know its possible to live with an EV without home charging but I wouldn’t.

Edit: I’m not suggesting everyone should throw away their working cars to buy an EV. I’m just saying that if you’re in a position to buy a car (like I did when my old Insignia died), you shouldn’t rule them out thinking that they’re niche.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892476#Comment_118892476

You sound like a real extreme case, and that's fair enough there will be examples you can always find where an EV won't fit the bill.

But you are an outlier. The vast vast majority of people could live with a full ev, they are just afraid to admit it.

I have had this discussion with many people I know since I first got my 1st ev. "Oh, it only does 230km, that's not a lot" is a line I heard many times, from people who rarely leave the town they live in.

Studies I have read in the past suggest that a large percentage of people don't travel more than 50 or 60km in a single day (if I'm remembering the data correctly) . Most could do that in an older ev, let alone a new one with bigger range. Ok so they may go to an airport once a year or have similar journey's, but if you know about those, they can be planned.

Some folk simply are afraid to admit the ev would do it for them. Maybe they don't want to let go of the diesel, that's fair enough. Maybe they can't afford an ev, and that's fair enough too. Or maybe they live in a terraced house and can't install a charger. Again that would be a genuine reason. But don't be throwing the excuse that a car that can do 300km wouldn't suit your daily life.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892477#Comment_118892477

I'll give an example of a very large cohort who are excluded from buying an EV.

Those who can't afford to put themselves in serious debt over a car

Those who are excluded from owning a EV because they can't install a home charger.

I reckon combining the two you are looking at more than 50% of the population.

Its a serious lack of awareness bordering on complete arrogance not being able to see things (or at least acknowledge things) from other people's points of view and personal situations.

On another note,I live in the West,this year alone I've been to kerry,Tyrone,Dublin twice just for football matches,the usual huge convoy of cars from Mayo in tow.How would that work if even 20% of them were EV?

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892476#Comment_118892476

you have just quoted the most extreme example possible and try to make it the norm ... for the vast, vast majority of people a €30k leaf would satisfy most of their driving needs.

By the way - for the extreme case you are quoting I'd assume you are looking at a €100k or so ICE SUV ?

I intend to be be fully EV and as long as I can get a range of 400km I'll be happy as I can't remember the last time I drove more than that in a single stint.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892549#Comment_118892549

if it were the case that 20% of cars in that convoy were EV the charging network would be much better as there would be cars to support it commercially, and in most cases a 15-20 min charge would be more than enough to get you home, same as stopping for petrol or diesel by the time you are done.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892476#Comment_118892476

so what you need is an etron with more range, its not that far off really. Bjorn (teslabjorn) on youtube does 1000km tests on lots of EVs (plenty of them, even inefficient ones with fast charging like the etron can do it in less than 11 hours) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGG2A11yWwI

You may find this interesting also, i certainly did (its a boardsie)!

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycan-to-the-arctic-circle-road-trip-2022.9393/

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892565#Comment_118892565

I'm going to give you the benifit of the doubt here and assume maybe you've never been in a matchday convoy.Lots and lots,sometimes 1000s of cars travel at the exact same time on one road, now think about your response again.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892549#Comment_118892549

you dont need serious debt to buy an EV, you need debt (or plenty of spare money) to buy any new car, EV or ICE, but there are plenty of used options that fit the majority of peoples requirements.

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892592#Comment_118892592

you are very kind to be so gracious to give me the benefit of the the doubt. You do understand that these matches will most likely still be played in 10 years time and at that stage the majority of cars on the road will be EVs, now think about your question again.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892645#Comment_118892645

At lot of would be,should,be going on here.

I'm talking about now,I wouldn't go trying to predict the future.

HBC08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892598#Comment_118892598

See this is the thing,I don't need or want a new car.My current car fulfills 100% of my needs.

Putting myself in debt or using my imaginary spare €50k to buy a car that can't do what my current car does makes zero sense.I don't see how anyone could not agree with that

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892667#Comment_118892667

well you are trying to predict something because as things stand right now the cars in the convoy clearly arent a majority of EVs, so whatever point you are making its not working.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118892598#Comment_118892598

Plenty of used EV options?

Nope.

Id love an EV, but I’m driving a diesel insignia with no debt on it doing 40k kms a year, 3 times a week doing 370km trip.

What used EV is there that can do that journey without using a public charger and travelling at 120kph and not costing 20k plus?