How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

I'm guessing that we'll see €2 prices at the pumps by May/Jun.

Brent crude just passed $90 a barrel, the highest its been since 2014. Its also showing no signs of slowing down and will break through $100 a barrel before the end of the month in all likelihood.

As to whether this will push more people to move to EV's at a faster rate, I think thats pretty much a certainty

Gant21

Increase your salary to balance the inflation. Battery cars don’t suit every one.

bazz26

Some folks don't seem to understand how things work if they think owning and running a car is going to be cheaper if everyone just switches to EVs. Remember that electricity prices have increased by over 50% in the last 12 months or so too so it's not some unique phenomenon only associated with petroleum. The more people start switching to electricity to fuel their cars then it's only natural that demand pushes prices up.

Then you have to take the revenue stream from taxation, levies and grants. When the balance of the national fleet starts moving in the direction of EVs the Government are not just going to let the revenue stream trickle away to a lower level than they collect now from all the ICE cars out there. They will have to make back the short fall and that means more tax rises for EV owners, less grants towards purchasing EVs, taking away EV toll subsidies, etc. All these perks are to get people to switch, once they reach a saturation point where revenue starts to drop off they will go. The Government coffers depends on revenue from the likes of the motorist to go towards paying for the running of the country.

Atlantic Dawn

Depreciation is my highest cost per year, at the moment it's roughly triple my fuel costs even with current prices, it would be a monumentally stupid decision for me to buy a new electric car that would depreciate even more.

mikeecho

It's already €2 petrol in the Netherlands.

Anyway, we had truckers protesting back in mid 2000's when diesel hit €1/l.

The UK had a shock when they got to the magic £5 gallon.. there was outrage..but now they are paying £8 a gallon.

Nothing has happened except, more duty, higher vat and carbon tax.

Come budget time, and a few more cent is added on, people will just say, as shur, it's only a few pence... Not even the price of a coffee.

Well all those pennies are adding up.

Do I give a flying füç.. nope, because it's out of my hands.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118582880#Comment_118582880

Then you have to take the revenue stream from taxation, levies and grants. When the balance of the national fleet starts moving in the direction of EVs the Government are not just going to let the revenue stream trickle away to a lower level than they collect now from all the ICE cars out there. They will have to make back the short fall and that means more tax rises for EV owners, less grants towards purchasing EVs, taking away EV toll subsidies, etc. All these perks are to get people to switch, once they reach a saturation point where revenue starts to drop off they will go. The Government coffers depends on revenue from the likes of the motorist to go towards paying for the running of the country.

100%

I believe they are looking at incorporating one or both of the following in with the existing emissions based tax model

• Pay by annual mileage
• Pay by weight of vehicle

Its likely it'll be some combo of the 2 with a weighting applied to the vehicle weight part i.e. 10,000 miles in a large SUV will cost more than 10,000 miles in a small hatchback.

Its was flagged in the Five Cities Demand Management report as being under investigation at the moment so expect to see this within the next 1-2 years. Thread about that below

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058219950/five-cities-demand-management-report-congestion-charges-15-min-city-parking-charge-increases-etc

WishUWereHere

I recall a good few years ago, a barrel of crude hit €115, yet I never remember the pump price as high as it is now.

How anyone buys that petrol super is beyond me. I have seen it around €1.90/ltre.

Toyotafanboi

45k used cars on donedeal just under 1300 are EV's so the genepool is really there for a mass, knee jerk switch to EV and the waiting time for a new one is 6 - 12 months for some brands.

That being said, definitely €2 a litre is on the cards shortly and then it will just become the norm as a round number and we'll just accept it because we're a nation like that.

Would love a bit of relief in some regards myself, from the rapid increase in price of every single thing. The powers that be seem to think a one time €100 off my next ESB bill will see me sound.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118582880#Comment_118582880

This is the thing.

If 50 percent of ICE owners switched to EV's tomorrow (assuming in the first instance there were enough EV's on the market to do that) there would be a number of negative outcomes.

The national grid would most likely collapse, the cost of electricity would increase, the loss of ICE related revenue to the state would mean an imposition of significant charges on EV's, and most importantly, not a single public charger would have a queue of less than 20 at it on a regular basis.

I am all for EV for numerour reasons, but for those thinking it will mean far cheaper motoring - not a notion, or at least not without significant forward planning in a number of areas - we don't have a great track record for that in fairness.

Ubbquittious

There is a good chance this too will blow over. In 2012 prices went beyond 1.60/l

Oil price usually goes up before a war. I really hope there won't be a war but there's feck all we can do about it if there is. Supply chains are still fcuked, lots of people quit their jobs & lots who are doing less than they were before the pandemic

Danzy

A lot of lorries will have to park up at that diesel price.

What it will do to embed inflation doesn't bare thinking about .

Danger also that people will revolt against the green agenda if it is skinning them alive.

2 euro fuel will see a lot of hard days for people.

Swaine

I'd pay €3 a litre before I'd buy some sh1tbox electric car.

Leonard Hofstadter

In the UK the parliamentary committee on transport has recommended road pricing and an increase in VED (or motor tax to us) as people start shifting towards EVs.

EVs are only going to be cheap to run for a short while, once enough people switch they'll get rid of the discounted tolls, the 0% company car tax (that's already flagged as going from 2023), the VRT relief, and that's just the low hanging fruit.

It's absolutely ridiculous that people who are buying much heavier vehicles (and therefore wearing out our roads faster - hardly very environmentally friendly, but we'll gloss over that in the same way we know that the electricity used to go into these vehicles is definitely not 100% renewable energy but somehow EVs are 'zero emissions') are getting toll discounts not to mention €120 car tax. If you can afford an electric car, you can well afford to pay proper car tax and proper tolls like the rest of us mugs do, especially when you're wearing out our roads quicker than the rest of us are.

Danzy

The rate of wear on Ev tyres is often overlooked as well.

Killer K

Taxing cars by weight (particularly non -commercial), makes a lot of sense. It would also likely slow down the demand for SUVs therefore making environmental sense and a number of other benefits.

Lantus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585252#Comment_118585252

Lets add in drag coefficient and make it a party!

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058231385/how-long-until-we-see-2-a-litre-and-will-it-push-more-to-evs-faster

I don't see too much of a rush coming yet, people will adjust. The two immediate problems are the price of them and the range, never mind our poor charging infrastructure.

Wildly Boaring

Brother works on this in the car industry (high in env section in a car manufacturer)

His views 6 months ago

kWhr/100km is going to be the all-important new metric. Just because it doesn't have a tailpipe doesn't mean they can't tax based on efficiency

frosty123

And the electricity to recharge your EV where does that come from?? - your local 'fossil fueled' power station 😑

celtic_oz

MPGe = Miles per gallon equivalent ( roughly estimated based on price of petrol and electricity )

Renault Zoe = 180 MPGe = 1.31 L/100km

Peugeot e208 = 170 MPGe = 1.38 L/100km

inevitable .. before 2030 most new cars will be electric.. with a sizable amount of people generating fuel from solar off their roof, then finally Ireland to realize wind potential off west coast

zell12

Petrol 31/01/22 €/l

Could be worse

Toyotafanboi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118584889#Comment_118584889

I definitely wouldn't.

Ubbquittious

I'll be shticking to the auld LPG anyway

Leonard Hofstadter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585252#Comment_118585252

It would also have the advantage of reducing the uptake of EVs, since even the ones designed from the outset are still ridiculously heavy compared to cars with proper engines, like the ID3, which is 400 kilos more than a Golf, or the new EQS, which weighs a staggering 2.7 tonnes, a whopping 700 kilos more than a rear wheel drive diesel S-class or 4 Matic petrol S-class.

That's precisely the reason it won't happen, because of course the 'experts' think is no pollution whatsoever in making cars and of course there is no pollution whatsoever in driving an EV despite the fact that in 2020, only 13.5% of our electricity grid came from renewable energy and sure a few months ago they couldn't rule out electricity blackouts at Christmas time for the next few years🙄.

BorneTobyWilde

Making biodiesel is easy to do at home, but HVO? How does one make HVO at home. That is a far superior fuel, but made from the same feedstock as biodiesel

celtic_oz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586417#Comment_118586417

Natural gas is the largest source of electricity generated, accounting for 52% of all electricity generated in 2020. The amount of electricity generated from renewables grew from just 6% in 2005 to 42% in 2020. Wind was 37% of all electricity generated in 2020, second only to natural gas and five times as much as coal, peat and oil combined. Ireland has become a world leader in the grid integration of wind generation.

or

Renewable generation accounted for 43% of all electricity consumed in Ireland during 2020, as EirGrid works to facilitate increased amounts of renewable energy on the grid at any one time. Statistics compiled by EirGrid, operator of the national electricity grid, show that the use of renewable electricity jumped from 36% in 2019 to 43% last year. Wind generation accounted for most of the renewables, along with small amounts of hydro, bio energy, ocean energy and “renewable combined heat and power”.

Factor into that EVs are usually charged during the night when rates are cheaper and renewable percentages are higher

Ireland produces virtual ZERO oil, yet we could be the Saudi Arabia of wind.

PaulJoseph22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585540#Comment_118585540

Exactly, and the battery and the manufacture of the car itself, and the greens banging on about EV, they’re the ones that promoted diesel not that long ago.

celtic_oz

Electric car emissions myth 'busted'

The researchers say average “lifetime“ emissions from electric cars are up to 70% lower than petrol cars in countries like Sweden and France (where most electricity comes from renewables and nuclear), and around 30% lower in the UK.

They say the picture for electric cars will become steadily more favourable as nations shift to clean electricity.

The researchers carried out a life-cycle assessment in which they not only calculated greenhouse gas emissions generated when using cars and heating systems, but also in the production chain and waste processing.

PsychoPete

It's only a matter of time before any of the ev grants are gone and the government start going after the ev drivers for the short fall in taxes from petrol and diesel

fryup

watching the news yesterday its claimed the government will make an announcement on thursday in tackling the current cost of living, hopefully that'll include a drop on fuel VAT😐️

PsychoPete

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589403#Comment_118589403

Talks of a "decrease" in motor tax

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589413#Comment_118589413

Mine is 200 a year. I spend 12 times that on fuel.

And what's the talk of driving licences . Once every 10 years. Not what you call a huge outlay

I Know what I'd like to see

Phil.x

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586730#Comment_118586730

Electricity at night is only cheaper if you're on a night meter.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589413#Comment_118589413

Car tax is a fairly negligible cost of running a car for many and it funds councils in a small way. It generates about €1bn annually. A fuel price tweak sounds more plausible as it can be applied at midnight and just as quickly reversed at a future midnight.

ongarite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586079#Comment_118586079

Not willing to pay price as it is now. I’m driving a big powerful diesel car but I’m not enjoying the driving anymore. I’m watching trip computer trying to drive as efficiently as possible. Smiles per gallon era is over IMO..

New car was on the cards so going electric now is a no brainier for me. Free charging in work, night rate meter means daily top up charge of 100km costs €1.50 if I need to use it.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589504#Comment_118589504

Your cost of motoring will still go up if you spend money on a new electric car, te new car will depreciate at a higher cost than what you are spending on diesel.

Phil.x

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589403#Comment_118589403

No I can't see that happening, the high vat, carbon tax etc etc is the stick to beat the motorist into changing (eamon ryans thinking) what they are thinking is reducing the already low motor tax on greener cars which will do nothing for the cost of living and as for the one off €100 off your electricity bill, again they don't want to lower any taxes or charges that would make a meaningful difference but to hope the price of oil and gas come back down before the carbon tax increase come in this summer.

Lewis_Benson

What electric car would suit for towing?

I tow my boat to and from the water for fishing.

Currently drive a vw tiguan sport 2.0.

Gusser09

There will be **** all cuts in vat or taxes.

The pandemic has to be paid for now.

harmless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589526#Comment_118589526

Do you know the weight of your boat and trailer?

The Hyundai Ioniq 5 could potentially work for you if a reduction from the 2,000kg towing weight of the Tiguan to 1600kg of the Ioniq does not cause issues.

If you need 2000kg or more there are EV's that can do it but unfortinatly they are in a higher price bracket than a Tiguan.

Toyotafanboi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589504#Comment_118589504

Yes, agree with that completely.

I live in north Wexford and used to commute to Dublin daily, it would have cost around €45 a week, doing about 600kms doing 50mpg with diesel @ 1.30 ish.

Since the dose i'm working closer to home, spending €30 a week to do 270kms. Albeit a different car, doing 45mpg, petrol @ 1.70.

So, with rounding the numbers a shade, that's two thirds of the price to go a little less than half the distance, 3 years later.

Or to put it another way, someone who is lucky enough to have an ok salary, say 40k, 14k above the infamous living wage and who is also lucky enough to work less than 30kms from home is paying around 5% of their take home salary or working one full day per month, to pay for the fuel to get to work. Before, you tax, insure, NCT or service the car or pay for the car itself, in a country where there are no real alternatives to owning a car.

harmless

When you drive a car for fun like weekend outings on enjoyable roads the cost of fuel is still good value IMO.

If you mostly drive long commutes then that's already depressing before you factor in fuel prices.

Leonard Hofstadter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589524#Comment_118589524

Didn't the carbon tax increase already come into affect for motorists? They never wait with taxes on petrol and diesel. I understood that it is only for home heating that the carbon tax increase was coming in May, but that is usual as they always delay that so that folks won't have to worry about heating their homes over Christmas, etc.

I don't see them doing anything to reduce the cost of fuel, removing this year's carbon tax increase would be lovely but 2 cent a litre is €1.20 on a 60 litre tank, it's not going to make a substantial difference. To see it drop back by 10 cent would make a meaningful difference but that's beyond the Government's control. They could reduce the cost of toll tags (for example, the East Link toll bridge went up 50 cent or over 35%), car tax for older cars by €100, allow people to pay car tax in monthly instalments rather than the current situation of either 3, 6 or 12 months (paying a lot more if you don't get the disc for the whole year of course), that's something we'd all notice and appreciate.

I simply don't see it happening because the Greens love making the lives of motorists miserable (except wealthy people who can afford massive electric luxury cars and SUVs).

fryup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586610#Comment_118586610

easy to make really? please tell i'm all eyes & ears😶

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589814#Comment_118589814

You need the gear and ingredients, and the feedstock, so many vids on youtube, not complicated.

coolbeans

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589515#Comment_118589515

Any source for that at all? I don't believe it to be true.

Indestructable

Highest I've seen for petrol in Kildare today was 179.9.

I expect another few cent increase this week based off the increase in Brent on Friday.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589379#Comment_118589379

France and Sweden are most notable for having nuclear energy (lets see them run those calculations for Poland and Germany). We don't have that luxury and given the mental state of most Irish people, this country never will, so expect lots more of this:

At around 6pm, 22-1-22, wind was contributing less than 1% of the power required. Thank goodness for coal and gas.

It takes 50% more CO2 to make an EV than a petrol ICE. A Tesla 3 causes 180% more damage to a road than does something like a Honda Civic because of the extra weight.

Petrol prices will probably come down again. Voters gonna vote. Current fuel costs are probably going to change the politicians perception that they can continue to increase CO2 taxes and energy costs, because the populace is more worried about global warming than energy costs. Not any more, they aren't. Warm fuzzy greenie sound bites don't pay power bills, of which taxes are a stupidly high percentage.

cnocbui

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589403#Comment_118589403

Weren't they asked why they didn't just cut the tax on electricity, instead of the one off €100 power bill rebate, and they replied they couldn't afford it - lying tossers, of course. We get €100 and the UK get £395. My fill of hetaing oil last week cost €895. Revenue smiling ear to ear at the massive energy taxes windfall isn't going to get my vote come the next election.

I got a crazy idea for the government, as they appear lost for ideas - how about dropping CO2 taxes altogether? They are predicated on people being abe to choose alternatives, when that clearly isn't the case.

WishUWereHere

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590490#Comment_118590490

Where in Kildare OP?

I notice Circle K in Kill is now cheaper than McLoughlins in Ballymany, which I think is a first.

Strange times, eh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118590715#Comment_118590715

You love your single data points, always gives me a laugh when you post them. Unfortunately they still don't form the basis of any argument for anything, but they're entertaining nonetheless.

As regards weight, sure sounds like an issue. Sounds like we should start pushing for more people to get out of the car and onto bikes, walk, use PT. On paper it looks like a win-win option as it'll reduce emissions, save wear and tear on the road network and be a healthier choice.