How long until we see €2 a litre and will it push more to EV's faster?

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867763#Comment_118867763

there you go again with your anti ev agenda.

Electricity could go up multiples of that and recharging your car would still be cheaper than filling it with petrol. There are reasons not to buy an EV but not that.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118867763#Comment_118867763

EV agenda lol. You only have to review my posting history to know how far off the mark you are.

NIMAN

Just did a quick calculation to compare the cost of fueling my petrol SUV versus my Ev on night rate electricity.

I'm working out it is approx 4.8x more expensive to use the petrol car right now to cover the same mileage.

Which explains why it has been rarely used over the last month or so.

DoneDeal reported some stats for their site which seem to confirm the Carzone data, that the increased fuel costs are driving huge amounts of interests in EV's.

https://www.thejournal.ie/car-price-inflation-electric-vehicles-5726114-Mar2022/

Would be cool if there was some stats available on the likes of bike sales, tax saver tickets, leap cards etc to see if those are increasing also or if its only a switch in the drive train rather than the mode. Possibly have to wait for annual CSO stats for that

BorneTobyWilde

How is fuel duty calculated, per litre or per euro. Guy on twitter calculating it was like

Fuel duty 465.98

Vat 23%

So it's 2 euro a litre, so 046.598 x 2 = 0.93196 x 23% = 1.14

?

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870684#Comment_118870684

It's more like

fuel cost+duty+Nora+carbon tax + vat = pump price.

( You must also add in all the delivery costs, and everyone must make a little along the way)

BorneTobyWilde

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871533#Comment_118871533

No he was doubling duty and vat up because fuel was 2 euro a litre. Thats bull though right? duty stays at 46p a litre, even if it's 5 euro a litre

And how if duty is only 46 cent a litre is fuel 1.90 ???? I don't get it considering oil is so cheap, and was 150 dollars a barrel in 2008 and fuel was still under 1.40 a litre

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871556#Comment_118871556

There have been extra taxes placed on diesel over the years in various budgets, be it vat increase from 21 to 23%, additional carbon tax, duty increases.

Another poster detailed how refining costs are also a variable.

Oil and fuel are sold as a commodity, demand dictates price.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118871583#Comment_118871583

Another poster detailed how refining costs are also a variable.

Can't recall who it was, but they shared the link below. It shows the price of refined diesel /petrol. As can be seen, diesel prices have gone berserk since Ukraine kicked off so price rises at the pump could still be on the way. To be honest, I'm a bit surprised it hasn't gone up already.

https://www.neste.com/investors/market-data/oil-product-margins#4ed3ff11

RTE news : New car sales jump by 40.7% in March - SIMI

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0401/1289798-new-car-sales-jump-by-40-7-in-march-simi/

Some interesting figures in this.

Leonard Hofstadter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118870099#Comment_118870099

You've literally posted two more articles promoting EVs since the post above, so if anything, that just confirms what I said previously.

Your beloved EVs are soon going to cost as much to run as an average diesel when using the ESB's fast charging network, yet another reason to stick with proper cars with real engines.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0405/1290615-esb-to-increase-prices-for-public-ev-charging-points/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886365#Comment_118886365

Well yeah, I posted info relevant to the thread and the many discussions had herein, much like the link you just posted is also relevant. Not sure why this is making you so angry. Did you want me to post about what I had for dinner today or something?

Honestly

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886365#Comment_118886365

But you know the vast majority of ev charging is done at home so why post this unless deliberately trying to mislead ?

mikeecho

I've noticed that circle k & maxol stations who normally charge 8/9¢ /L extra for premium diesel are keeping the premium at 199.9¢/l , even though the regular is less than 8/9¢ less.

They seem to be avoiding the €2 price point.

Anyway, after listening to the David McWilliams podcast (who was a guest speaker at a circle k dealer conference last week in Kilkenny, where he picked up some inside info) I'm off to fill a few more drums of diesel.

Laugh now.. but I'll be confident that my family has fuel in the medium term.

And if there isn't a shortage, it'll be used anyway.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886365#Comment_118886365

I have done 24,000km on EV in the past 12 months - used the public charging network twice in that time. The vast majority of EV charging is done at home and on night rate

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118886365#Comment_118886365

Are you really that emotionally wedded to the type of fuel that your car consumes that you feel the need to pretend that one type of car is real or proper and another is not?

Popoutman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887289#Comment_118887289

That's nice, when you've a home and a unique space to put up an EV charger. Plenty don't, and that's why the EV as a driver of habit change will always be a game for the well-off. No way Joe Average can afford that kind of outlay, and our country can't afford the short term costs to implement this for enough people. Few apartment dwellers, terraced house occupiers, or those that rent, can implement useful car charging at home. We know it needs to change but that doesn't change the absolute realities at the moment.. At least there are moves by some of the ICE car manufacturers to bring new EV cars under the $30000 mark.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887840#Comment_118887840

not true. A dedicated home charger costs about €600 .. not massive money .. but the cars can be charged off a 3-pin plug if you want. Driveways are not the preserve of the wealthy. I live in the countryside and we are not all millionaires. As for the outlay .. that is the same for ICE or EV cars ... and as there are more EVs sold new in a few years these will be on the 2nd hand market ...

As for people living in urban centres ... where do they park their cars now ? on the side of the street ? also people living in urban centres shouldn't need to use cars as much so charging infrastructure isn't as big a concern as the cost of public charging will still be cheaper than fuel

Pitting this as a class divide is just nonsense .... I paid €30k for my new EV .. not mega bucks and the same price as a Diesel Golf.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887289#Comment_118887289

Since I got the Gen 2 Leaf, it has become the main car at home. The petrol car only used now when both of us need a car.

Charge my ev either on night rate electricity or else for free at work.

Recently calculated that per km the petrol car costs 4.9x more to fuel than the ev charged on night rate.

whippet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887953#Comment_118887953

same here - we have a 330e PHEV that is really the second car in the household now ... the Leaf is just the default car for any journey. Although I do still like the BMW for some journeys when I want a bit of fun - but even that car does most of it's driving on EV.

iColdFusion

ESB jacking up their public charging prices, they are 95% owned by the Irish government and made nearly 680million in profit last year, so much for the "we're all in this together" green agenda!

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2022/0405/1290615-esb-to-increase-prices-for-public-ev-charging-points/

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888127#Comment_118888127

Why should the cost of this service which is exclusive to those who have an EV remain subsidised, especially given the current and pending energy problems?

NIMAN

If the gov uses the income to build a better charging infrastructure, then perhaps its not a bad thing.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888127#Comment_118888127

ESB give a dividend back to their shareholders every year, if their profits increase that money is returned to government and goes back into the general government funding. I'd rather see more chargers than lower charging fees. More chargers means I don't have to wait on a journey, lower fees means I can afford an expensive coffee whilst waiting an hour to get home.

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888216#Comment_118888216

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888252#Comment_118888252

My main point being that it is just giving people more excuses not to buy EV's when the government are constantly saying they want far more on our roads and the government have massive control over the ESB, surely the ESB should be taking the hit to encourage EV uptake or some carbon tax money should be funneled their way to keep charging costs low.

liamog

Given the supply issues and waiting lists I don't think we need to any incentives to encourage uptake at the moment.

A sustainable charging network that allows companies to make money from selling you electricity will be a much better incentive that subsidising your journey to Cork.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888280#Comment_118888280

But it is not part of the ESB's remit to encourage people away from ICE and into EVs. That is the government's job and they are doing that.

As for the increased electricity costs being an excuse, I don't think it will be. Petrol and diesel prices have shot up yet I still continue to see people driving short journeys. I still see people speeding, etc. Not much has changed as a result of the high fuel costs.

When buying, most people look at the cost of buying and not the total cost of ownership (which to my knowledge will still favours the EV).

Why should it be tax payer who pays for charge infrastucture? Did tax payer install diesel pumps?

iColdFusion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888320#Comment_118888320

It clearly is part of their remit though and has been for a very long time through eCars since 2010 nevermind every kW of power to an electric car goes through their network.

Im not pro EV in any major way and quite happy with my petrol guzzler but the government needs to start convincing people an EV makes sense, like you say buying a 60k Tesla isn't a logical choice, people mostly buy on sticker price, their general feelings and rarely do any detailed maths on long term costs so the key is to ensure any news stories they read are all about how great owning an EV is.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888380#Comment_118888380

I would say the taxpayer has payed for very little charging infrastructure in Ireland to date but they should be doing much more, private companies arnt going to massively expand the infrastructure until there are enough EV's on the road to make them a good profit, people are going to hold back on an EV until the infrastructure is in place so the government needs to step in now unless they want this changeover to take a generation, every new diesel car sold today is going to be on the road for the next 10-15 years.

liamog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118888380#Comment_118888380

Good few reasons I can think of, we import about €3bn worth of refined/unrefined petroleum products per year. I'd much rather see that money stay in the Irish Economy instead of paying for energy from abroad. I'm also a fan of moving tailpipe emissions away from people. I prefer clean air when walking around cities.