Report claims Defence Forces Admit ”They Cannot Meaningfully Defend Ireland”

Raichu

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/defence-forces-admit-they-cannot-meaningfully-defend-ireland-41292277.html?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=gnews&utm_campaign=CDAqDwgAKgcICjCx7J8JMMzIbzCPjzY&utm_content=rundown&gaa_at=la&gaa_n=AYc4ystak6sgYxGIIf3hcpktyAaEJetk-q36iFyPf_D5Xbp2onR_6gg9YPS2aLjDn4mfNohvXDiTpHikeK4YP9IcBzZYUq5-Xg%3D%3D&gaa_ts=61f71848&gaa_sig=PJnL1jGjppMQTMdKBZn7Wq_hP7fOYGq0UFFHvBad-W_ynzokWex_WWKMWqBrBNvzXBSTZnsREBnhR0AzGjJ2ww%3D%3D

if this report is correct some big changes due in the next while for the DF.

Not sure if this is just in response to the obvious questions people are asking in light of Russia’s crowding the Ukraine border & the EEZ war games or they really just felt like it was necessary.

i can’t pretend I wasn’t a little embarrassed to see the yanks having a laugh on the back of it but I can’t see a huge benefit to a massive overhaul. Some upgrades sure, I guess? But there’s hardly a need for things like renaming?

The report will also recommend renaming the Irish Air Corps the Irish Air Force and the Irish Naval Service the Irish Navy, while the Army Ranger Wing would be renamed Ireland’s Special Operations Force or IRL-SOF.

Granted renaming the Army Rangers I think is fair cos it does make them sound like a bit of a non totally serious group when in fact they are specially trained soldiers.

Overall not sure how I feel about this especially seeing as part of the changes proposed would mean we’re doing less peace keeping in an effort to “effectively defend the state”. We’re not under threat from anyone at present.. so what’s the point?

osarusan

Did anybody really think the Defence Forces actually had the capability to meaningfully defend Ireland?

The cost needed to develop our military to the point that it could meaningfully defend Ireland would be staggeringly astronomical.

I can see the need for radar to see what's going on in our territories, and more ships to patrol our waters, but in reality, any force that makes the decision to attack/invade Ireland, in light of our membership of the EU, and relationships with the USA and UK, would likely have the power to wipe us out...in which case surely they have bigger fish to fry.

Raichu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557039#Comment_118557039

This makes me think either

1. this report is just fluff either fully or partially.
2. these changes will be over a great, great length.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058230576/report-claims-defence-forces-admit-they-cannot-meaningfully-defend-ireland

"What's the point..."

As I said in another thread, disband the Defence Forces so.

Give the ships and airplanes to the coast guard, Civil Defence can help out with things like flood relief and the Rangers can be part of the anti-terrorist response in the Gardai.....

MarkEadie

Really? I thought we could take on Russia in a war... said nobody.

Raichu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557207#Comment_118557207

Yeah cos what we’ve got now is the same as nothing?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557231#Comment_118557231

Well pretty much. It is clear our defence forces are not up to par for even a small nation like Ireland. We are by far the weakest military in the EU, maybe on par with Malta or Luxembourg. So we either modernise it a bit, or stop lying to ourselves and get rid of it, because the status quo is not really sustainable.

Raichu

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557264#Comment_118557264

Who are we needing to fight against exactly? What’s wrong with the current military and the job they’re currently doing?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557268#Comment_118557268

Oh I don't know, how about the fact when the ARW had to go to Afghanistan on a moments notice to get Irish Citizens out of there, they had to thumb a ride of others? We have NO air transport capacity, again, the ONLY country in the EU apparently that doesn't have that capacity...

Is that acceptable in your books?

Kermit.de.frog

Sure we had to sponge rides for our citizens out of Afghanistan too. Another embarrassment as Coveney had to go begging others. The usual. Couldn't even send one aircraft like every other country because we don't have a single heavy lift.

Never mind the fact it would have helped Irish citizens in Afghanistan, Libya and elsewhere it's also just degrading to go about our business sponging like that.

There is no practical, moral or reputational benefit with other countries when you can't be arsed doing the bare minimum.

And then we turn up looking for help...

Raichu

So yeah we definitely need transport and radar. But changing names and potentially weapons upgrades? And is it absolutely vital that we reduce peace keeping to “defend the Irish nation” more? Like again— who are we defending against?

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557292#Comment_118557292

Apparently, it's grand!

Normally neutral countries have a good military because they don't have an alliance with anyone, so they can be truly neutral.

We are neutral in the sense that we don't want to spend anything on the military and sponge of the security NATO, the French and the UK provide us.....

So, if people were genuinely worried about our neutrality and want us to maintain it, then we should be spending more..... but tbh, we are codding ourselves. A part-time nation.

John Doe1

Diplomacy is our best defence anyway.

The best we could hope for is if we are invaded is we could have a mass resistance movement using guerilla warfare which could possibly have some effect.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557278#Comment_118557278

It’s acceptable in my book. We didn’t have anything to transport citizens home from Afghanistan is big fcuking deal territory for me. The English or some other country will do it for us and we’ll pay them. Better than purchasing the structures to do it ourselves and only needing them once in a blue moon.

Ireland has no army really, not in the normal sense of why countries have armies. That’s fine with me.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557323#Comment_118557323

Mass resistance ,were a natio of wingers and begrudgers more happy to fund African nations defense forces than our own.

We don't need to spend hundreds of billions on defense 2-3 billion would be ideal to rebuild our defense forces

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557231#Comment_118557231

No expert but they do seem to be ringing some more/louder alarm bells that they can't do their job properly as it is, and will reach a point where that will become (even more) the case in a few years if nothing changes at all. Will be interesting to see if it is listened to/what happens.

By "job", I don't think they mean defending Ireland from a theorectical invasion by global powers who are armed to the teeth with all sorts and have military manpower on scale of our whole population (as discussed over course of edit: the other thread on the Russian exercises!), or the Aliens out of Independence Day!

It does seem be more down to earth and prosaic than that.

Atlantic Dawn

We are a neutral country, who would we have to defend against? We have no oil, gave away our gas and fish, no resources worth taking us over for.

SouthWesterly

Nephew was in the DF. He left after basic training as he tried and failed to get on any training courses. Placed just weren't available and he got sick of just sitting around the barracks

washman3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557397#Comment_118557397

And who would prevent other countries from enticing our TV/Radio stars to go work for them. Just imagine the kind of salaries Pat Kenny, Claire Byrne, Tubridy, Duffy, Darcy, O'Callaghan etc could command abroad....😉

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557340#Comment_118557340

So we should just disband the defence forces so and stop trying to pass ours off as one so. At least we should be honest about it.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557303#Comment_118557303

You admit that we need radar coverage as we lack it, yet who are we defending ourselves against?

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557397#Comment_118557397

Neutral countries invaded in WWII: Denmark, Latvia, Lithuania and San Marino.

This country can be used as a base to attack/control Britain.

Dyr

Lads, since the 60s the defence forces have existed so the Irish state can show what good guys we are on the international stage. They're purely for decorative purposes. Although they did prove very useful in ferrying illegal immigrants into Europe.

If we're going to be a shining beacon of hope and free stuff for every chancer showing up with a sob story then we can't be wasting our money on fripperies like the defence forces, them gaffes arent going to build themselves.

markodaly

Ah in fairness there were some posters on this forum stating that we should have invaded the North in the 1960's..... Walter Mitty types on crack!

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557472#Comment_118557472

In order to get to a level to 'defend' we would need to spend at least 1/3 of what the UK spends a year which might not even be enough given the sea area to defend, that would be circa €20 billion if it's a pure defence from some unknown attacker we want. There will never be the appetite for such nor the budget.

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557397#Comment_118557397

Wouldn't have to be about some material gain for an aggressor.

Attacking even briefly targeting key infrastructure would lead to a huge crisis on the EU and UK's door that they'd have deal with.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557514#Comment_118557514

Where are you getting 20 billion from?

growleaves

"some unknown attacker"

Russia have now shown us - specifically *us*, the Irish in Ireland - that if a world war breaks out they - the Russians - can hop over and invade if they want to.

No wish on my part to offend anyone but it is obvious that in a world war the danger comes from Russia and China who will fight the Western countries (all of them, I'm guessing, which means us also).

Yes there will never be the appetite or the budget to pay to defend the country but that doesn't mean we won't ever be attacked or invaded by anyone.

Name changes are a form of disorientating corporate restructuring achieving nothing except perhaps demoralisation from the breaking down of traditions.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557527#Comment_118557527

UK annual spend is circa €55 billion, we would be coming from a position of having to initially buy all the ships, subs, jets, helicopters, tanks, radar etc etc but would not be actively involved in wars around the world as the UK are.

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557514#Comment_118557514

I'm not sure we have to spend that much in fairness. Even a few bits and pieces could go a long way and certainly would not be 20 billion.

One heavy lift transporter is about 20 million for example.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118557536#Comment_118557536

We don't need subs ,

We need radar , extra ships and fast jets ans some helicopters ,were looking at 2-3 billion at most per year.

We're not the UK and we will have different operational requirements,