How can we integrate Unionism into a possible United Ireland?

votecounts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241681#Comment_119241681

A decent person would respect the wishes of the majority if a border poll should pass. Why should the nationalists be restricted in doing business with the EU because of Unionist "insecurity" in relation to the protocol. You'll see the true nature of unionism in the next few week while they burn our national flag and sing vile song about a mudered woman. Do you think that Unionists should have a veto in relation a UI, simple question.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241681#Comment_119241681

You ignored the last displacement of people, you told them they should have lain down and waited for the British to be democrats. Decent?

Why would 'decent' people have voted for any change in society blanch, using your twisted logic?

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241681#Comment_119241681

No we don't. What if many feel uncomfortable with their line of work in the wake of Brexit? What are you going to do for those who feel unhappy in their own family home with where the UK is going? Never mind that many are unhappy with the current situation but have stayed as they want to improve it. What if those are in the majority?

ancapailldorcha

Seems to me that the obvious answer is a border poll or a referendum in NI where they could be asked if they believe there is adequate support for unification. The portion of the GFA leaving it to the Secretary of State for NI puzzles me since no politician would want to be saying yes to that kind of poll.

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119183535#Comment_119183535

So you view the island as one entity. Progress. People like yourself only supported partition because of what was in it for them, not the good of all. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that but don't try pretend its about recognising identity. You have no love for the Irish, their language or equality in the North.

A UI would be a new construct not claimed by any other country or state. We will look after the rights of all our citizens equally.

Its equality you have a problem with.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119241384#Comment_119241384

They don't need a grant to go to Scotland anyway.

The whole thing about people not being able to live in a UI is silly.

*Moves to Aberdeen*

"Ah I am back in the fold of British supremacy away from this new UI."

Meanwhile your new next-door neighbour is a red-haired guy called Oisin O'Donaille who, under strict equality legislation, has the exact same standing as yourself .

Every part of the Anglo world has concentrations of Irish Catholics and/or their descendants - USA, Australia, New Zealand, England, Scotland, Canada. Equality legislation is broadly similar to in Ireland.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242521#Comment_119242521

The problem with that is why don't we have such a grant scheme now?

If, as Francie insists, this "grant scheme" is not ethnic cleansing by another name, why isn't one in place for those who are now calling for a border poll? Surely, if it is a good idea for unionists in the future, it is a good idea for good republicans now.

I will tell you the reason why. Introducing a grant scheme to "offer" people the chance to relocate from their homes, their schools, their workplaces, their friends, their heritage, is a horrible thing to do, especially when it can be abused by people on the ground who would start "asking" people to avail of the grant. It is an idea lacking in empathy and humanity, a denial of people's culture and heritage.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119242847#Comment_119242847

An island is a single entity, that is a geographical fact, just like the British Isles are a geographical fact.

However, there are many islands with separate identities on them. Timor, Cyprus, New Guinea, Borneo, the list of islands with more than one separate jurisdiction is long and lengthy.

I am Irish, I love myself, I love my Irishness, but my Irishness is inclusive, it is not based on othering the British, it is not based on the language being fior-Gael. For example, the Irish language is a large part of Irish heritage, but it is only a very tiny part of modern-day Irish culture. Just as sean-nos singing may have been dominant in the 18th century, it is a tiny, fairly insignificant part of modern-day Irish music. U2 alone have more influence over modern Irish culture than all the sean-nos singers in the country.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243186#Comment_119243186

So just tell them to like it or lump it. That's fine, I think anyone can judge who has 'empathy'.

People in the north who are of no use to partitionists or the government have always been ignored, that is my point. We now know you would ignore the 18% who say they cannot live in a UI.

You finally answered the question.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243243#Comment_119243243

What about those who cannot live in Northern Ireland and want a border poll? If a border poll is soundly rejected, will you be calling for a grant scheme for those good republicans who can't live there?

If you aren't, then your idea is shown up once again as a one-sided sectarian bigoted approach.

Speedline

So don't offer any assistance then. Leave them to sort themselves out in the event that they decide they can't live in a UI.

Just like the British did when they allowed loyalists to burn Catholics from their homes in Belfast in the 70s.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243262#Comment_119243262

Again, I ask. If a border poll is defeated 70:30, pushing the prospect of a united Ireland back into the realms of fantasy, will you offer a similar resettlement scheme to good republicans?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243261#Comment_119243261

Have they said they 'couldn't live' in their homeplace?

Nope.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243269#Comment_119243269

If some did say that, would you offer it to them?

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243223#Comment_119243223

You said there were two identities on the island. You spoke on the whole island, ignoring partition. Progress.

And like North America, Canada is not beholden to America.

If you are Irish, the British are 'other'. Unless you personally choose to identify as both, which is fine of course. Have you as much disgust for British people who choose not to identify as Irish, are they exclusionist nationalists too? It seems you've only issue with the Northern Irish identity. You should respect that the Irish language is cemented into the Irish culture. Just because its not as popular as it might be doesn't mean you should be ready to exclude it from any meaningful place in Irish culture. You seem very quick and ready to pull apart Irish culture yet speak on recognising the two identities of the island. How about you respect both identities in the North before you go preaching about respecting the unionist identity in a UI? Might be more credible.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243278#Comment_119243278

Help people who 'couldn't' live there, of course I would. Regardless of who they are. It's called empathy.

guyfo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119236751#Comment_119236751

Remind me again why do we speak English in Ireland?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243333#Comment_119243333

Nobody is "other" to me, that is your problem, that you "other" different people.

I have no issue with the Northern Irish identity, I am delighted that people choose to identify as Northern Irish, a third alternative to the two exclusionary nationalist viewpoints up there.

Culture is living. Heritage is dead culture. The Irish language is more heritage than culture. However, I do acknowledge that to a tiny minority of Irish people, the Irish language plays an important role in their daily lives. However, that has to be put into perspective whereby the vast vast majority of Irish people do not speak any Irish outside of school in their daily lives. That puts its "meaningful" place in Irish culture into context.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243388#Comment_119243388

Because we want to.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243448#Comment_119243448

Being Irish is now exclusionary?

You tie yourself up in so many knots trying to make this same stupid point that you can't even see how ridiculous you have become.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243449#Comment_119243449

Get out of it.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243540#Comment_119243540

Fantasy history now from blanch.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243540#Comment_119243540

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243655#Comment_119243655

If people don't want to speak English, they don't have to.

We speak English here, because we want to, simple as.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243706#Comment_119243706

The question was: 'Why do we speak English here?'

Brucie Bonus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243448#Comment_119243448

Depends on your definition. British and French and Spanish are 'other' when speaking about Irish in the nation sense. Thats why we have different governments and laws.

You are attempting to suggest a third option is viable upon people who don't want it. And because they don't want it you are labelling them 'exclusionary', which is a nonsense term you use to demean people you disagree with, while claiming to respect their identity.

You constantly dismiss and belittle the language. You want a united Ireland to remain British enough for the people who don't want a UI. I know the real agenda is a fear the political landscape will change and not in your favour. That harks back to why certain elements supported partition and still do, self interest.

If the current pattern remains, cosying up to the DUP in a UI might bring FG back, which I assume is why they already started the ground work.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243278#Comment_119243278

Why not? I am sure anyone who wants to move would take the free money.

In any case if you don't want the grant scheme then we can simply not offer it. That is an option. Saves money, anyone who wants to move can do so out of their own pocket but no one will be encouraged to move or to stay.

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243811#Comment_119243811

I was going to say blanch152 sidestepped the whole issue of not being allowed to speak anything but english

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119243449#Comment_119243449

Because it was bet out of the people,my grandfather pre-independance was beaten in primary school for saying a word of irish,were given a stick for parents to mark at weekends when ever irish was said again and beaten for however many times they spoke irish.....his parents being long regarded as nationlist obviously didnt participate in this

But your white-washing of irish history is fcuking gross

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247180#Comment_119247180

Partitionism ignores the history that doesn't tally with their views. We have seen it over and over here.

FraserburghFreddie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119247180#Comment_119247180

Same old whinging about what the dastardly British did in the past.You should look to the future,not constantly whining.My Grandfather was beaten by german soldiers in a prison camp but I don't hate Germany or harp on about it.