What part-if any-should Ireland play in the defence of Ukraine if Russia invades?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519495#Comment_118519495

We could fit in quite well in nato ,10,000 strong we wouldn't even be the smallest military involved,

Oddly enough we have a similar GDP and population to Denmark ,and yet they have a navy , air force and very capable army .

We can't hide behind the skirt's forever

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519550#Comment_118519550

You're familiar with peacetime configurations, defensive status, offensive status, yes?

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519550#Comment_118519550

Ukraine isn't Russia

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519538#Comment_118519538

Denmark has has about 20% more people residing there then we do, roughly 1 million people extra…

they also have very high income tax rates to pay for it, the highest in the EU…

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519858#Comment_118519858

Our spending for the next 10 years on welfare will add up to around 200-250 billion ,

We be lucky if we spent a fraction of that on defense,

It's not like we can't afford it ,

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519538#Comment_118519538

Sure aren't we at top table of the UN security... we decide who is taken out...

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520512#Comment_118520512

Lets see how the UN currently works Russian invades East Ukraine and shoots down flight MH17 ,at the UN Russia blocks a strongly worded statement being released , Russia blocks the UN from using the word shot down or shooting down of flight MH17,

The same applies to china, Israel and the US ,

We have a seat nothing more , nothing will come of it ,

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522763#Comment_118522763

As much as I'd absolutely love it if we could ,

There is too many people that will start with the fake tears over sending our son's and daughters to war ,

While expecting everyone else's sons and daughters to come to defend Ireland , while snibbling political parties try to hide behind the skirt of neutrality.

Our best option maybe a standing European army , every European State supplies soldiers, tech , logistics for the defense of Europe , leaving nato to go with Japan, south Korea, Israel,in a separate alliance

dxhound2005

We have a standing army, and and without checking I expect every other country below has as well. The idea of an alliance is that member countries can be called on at times of need. Where would a European standing army be based?

The member states of NATO are: 

Albania, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Montenegro, Netherlands, North Macedonia, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, United States.

NATO partner countries are:

Armenia, Austria, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Finland, Georgia, Ireland, Kazakhstan, Kyrghyz Republic, Malta, The Republic of Moldova, Russia, Serbia, Sweden, Switzerland, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Ukraine, Uzbekistan.

mickuhaha

If Russia decided to invade Ukraine it would most likely be in conjunction with a cyber attack on most world wide government security sites, much like with our health service. It will be hard to offer help when we're all at home wondering why Netflix won't work.

JC01

What's with some posters winding themselves up to the last talking about military equipment etc, you can nearly hear the Call of Duty addled lunatics climax at the thought of us deciding to build a military force and go off to war. Its downright weird.

Obviously Ireland has no role to play in any conflict that does break out, best leave that to the experts.

My heart does go out to the Ukrainians though, the future is looking very scary for them right now.

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522763#Comment_118522763

We would be Iceland part 2

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519495#Comment_118519495

These threads are gas, you have one group saying we have nothing, while another is all gung ho and can't wait to go to war.

Fact: we do have attack aircraft, the pilatus can be armed with rockets and machine gun pods for the ground attack role.

The naval service: the 76mm Oto Melara medium calibre naval armament is the most powerful weapon in the Naval Services arsenal. The 76mm is capable of engaging naval targets at range of up to 17km with a high level of precision, ensuring that the Naval Service can maintain a range advantage over all close range naval armaments and man portable weapon systems. The gyro stabilized gun is fully automated utilising a RADAMEC Fire Control System and is capable of engaging naval, air and shore based targets. It is mounted on both the CPV and LPV class of vessel. 

We're used to our govts being wasteful but this is an area where govt have been very efficient, surely this is something we should be happy about?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118523997#Comment_118523997

How very “US Congressman sending thoughts & prayers to highschool shooting victims” of you.

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524520#Comment_118524520

definitely, if we every went to war with the RNLI or a paramilitary navy made of pleasure craft

smurfjed

Chatted about this to a Ukrainian colleague two nights ago, 25 year old female. Her opinion was that the USA was trying to put military into Ukraine and that Russia was trying to stop that happening, she thought that it would be better for her country to align themselves with Russia. Not the response that I expected and I was rather surprised.

i guess that it kinda like Irish youth thinking that SF are the bees knees.

starkid

you either invest in the army/naval/airforce or you don´t. we have clearly chosen the latter. then we have shills from SF complaining about radar. they´d be the first to moan about the high costs. But in those countries military spends also confirm jobs etc. its not all a black hole.

the irony is we expect others to come to our rescue. if Russia got any closer we´d expect the UK to save us.

Its one of those quirks of Ireland. we were never touched by the last great war, so we mantain our neutrality. in the future will that be possible?

we have no idea what its like to be in a theatre of war. all those nato countries were touched in some way by WW2. they are going to be shaped by that destruction.

i wouldn´t care either way. but theres too many Irish people who have built up this image of Ireland as a sort of saviour and bastion of pure goodness when it comes to things like the armed forces and nuclear power etc.

Ireland will only ever get some build up if something bad happens or our progression continues apace, to an Ireland where the hard left or people couched in myth and exceptionalism don´t have such a hold.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524601#Comment_118524601

Crazy exaggeration of reality, surely sticking to facts is a better approach?

No one's going to war with anyone atm, the yanks are at worst promising to hit back with 'massive economic sanctions'. I can't imagine Putin greeting that with anything but derision.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524520#Comment_118524520

https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/pilatus_when-the-us-adopted-a-swiss-war-plane-s-twin/44219834

altho we do only have 8. the reality is our navy and airforce would be quickly over run.

XsApollo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524621#Comment_118524621

She wouldn’t be far wrong,

Anybody that thinks NATO would like to admit Ukraine to benefit NATO is deluded.

The US push for Ukraine to be admitted to NATO is 100% got to do with getting one over on Russia.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524668#Comment_118524668

No matter what we had our forces would be overrun by Russia, US, UK etc. So that is an argument to have nothing, or do we cut our cloth to suit our needs?

I'd like more of the sexy stuff but not at the expense of assisting our oap's etc.

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524621#Comment_118524621

I think it's natural many Ukrainians would ally to their large neighbour, it makes sense on many levels.

I'm sure many realise the US are merely interested in how mush grief they can cause Russia rather than any real concern for Ukraine.

starkid

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524733#Comment_118524733

ah yeah look its never going to happen. having 13 jets does nothing apart from projection of power and maybe curries some influence from somewhere.

but it can swing too far the other way. where you start having people say, sure why do we need an army etc etc. the radar thing with SF speaking out is exactly the type of bs you would see. SF would be the first to moan if it was millions spent on a system.

look at our lax attitude to policing until they sexed it up with a few armed patrols after the violence. even still we are sleepwaling into more issues there/ we think we can do it different in this country. we can´t.

we are a reactionary nation and unshaped by WW2 meaning our reaction was muted. we spared our cities and people but had our leader sign Hitlers book of condolence. its shaped us for better and worse. if 20 million Irish had died in WW2 we´d probably be holding drills somewhere as well. i despise Russia and its hard left apologists but i can get some of their stance (if thats not contradictory)

Storm 10

Warship at sea tonight on Channel 5 features HMS Norththumberland sent to investigate gathering of Warships and Submarines off the West Coast of Ireland

Storm 10

Black Noel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524897#Comment_118524897

Let them have their fun.

I think it's fair go if the brits insist on sending weapons to Russia's neighbours in order to mess them around, Russia pays back likewise.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524621#Comment_118524621

To be fair, it’s more like you asked a girl from East Belfast about Irish Independence. They think Gardai and the IRA colluded to kill protestants & get away with it up there, and the crazier ones would like nothing more than to be surrounded by battalions of British Army troops about to push South to end the Republic once and for all & return Ireland to its “rightful” place in the Union.

JC01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118524595#Comment_118524595

I’m being realistic.

A. What moral obligation have we to get involved? Should we also involve ourselves in Syria and Yemen while we’re at it? This matter is literally none of our business. And save the faux outrage that the Russians are exercising 250km from our island. 99% of people wouldn’t of known that that area fell within our EEZ a week ago but suddenly everyone is very concerned about what boats are bobbing about in the Atlantic.

B. And this is probably the the more important point, what the hell are we supposed to do? The Russians or indeed any military superpower could send us back to 1874 in an afternoons work. Some clown was suggesting we should have 6 F32s for “coastal defence” or some such bollox earlier on. This in a country that had to rent out a couple hundred Qashqais from Hertz and slap Garda stickers on them only 2 years ago.

Lads that have seen Saving Private Ryan once too often and have absolutely no concept of the realities on the ground for those facing a superpower determined to control your country and its actions.

So no, I don’t feel like a US congressman who has an actual responsibility to deal with this situation considering US congressmen are part of the system which is inherently responsible for the situation as it stands today unlike Irish TDs!

Fathom

Shannon. Staging airport for US supplies heading to Eastern Europe. Before. During. And after military conflict. Including buildup of NATO allies in nearby conflict countries.

Of course Ireland’s neutrality from NATO may be questioned. But Ireland and the USA have an understanding that may benefit both. And airport fees paid by USA don’t hurt.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118526622#Comment_118526622

Neutral in name only