What part-if any-should Ireland play in the defence of Ukraine if Russia invades?

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504833#Comment_118504833

There are many things I'd consider Northern Ireland circa 1968 to 1998, but 'generally settled' is not one of them.

Gatling

We don't have large stock piles of surplus modern weaponary that could be sent to Ukraine, our best assets would be the ARW who could be deployed to help in a training role along side other foreign units ,

But in saying that we hide behind the UN and neutrality like it's some kind of magic shield.

Nato and the Baltics will have to do the bulk of any fighting ,it would be a massive mistake on putin to invade , because he won't stop at ukraine if he does ,

We seen what happened to Saddam's great army with it's millions of men and thousands of tanks ,one of the biggest militaries in the world, who had the same doctrine as russia , we're so big our enemies will just fall ,

But when the other army are better trained , equipped and have the ability to hit targets 24/7 365 huge armoured columns become grave yards pretty quickly

fly_agaric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504833#Comment_118504833

It is not settled for "hundreds of years" plural. The current still somewhat unstable setup has just turned 100 (roughly speaking).

The portion of Irish history with large parts of what is now Ireland under jurisdiction of the English Crown, then later the entire island an integral part of the UK / British Empire etc. is pushing towards an order of magnitude longer than our history as an independent nation state.

The other poster was taking about "the Mongols" and the middle ages etc. in ref. to Ukraine to argue it's not a real country/people. So setting the clock back a little and looking at the broad sweep of Irish history, we also have no right to self determination as a people and are a piece of the bigger island's "sphere of influence".

edit: Funny, I mentioned "this forum" making excuses for Russia's aggression towards Ukraine but was thinking of the Current affairs thread on it which was worse for that!

dxhound2005

Since WW2 the Soviet Union expanded then retreated, giving independence to many countries. Germany reunified. Czechia and Slovakia divided. Yugoslavia became six different countries. The Soviet Union granted Crimea to Ukraine, Russia took it back.

Up to now there was never a unified state on the island of Ireland, independent from Britain.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118505288#Comment_118505288

Ah Jayzus , here we go .

BringingSexyBack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058228755/what-part-if-any-should-ireland-play-in-the-defence-of-ukraine-if-russia-invades

Russia has the gas pipes, so you might not hear a peep from Ze Germans and many of our Continental chums. Remember almost 10 years ago, things were dicey around that region and Russia, and The Irish farmers and exporters were worried about the price of wheat etc. .............

We shat ourselves when Russia fighter jets were acting the bollox getting close to Irish airspace and only for the British Airforce who knows what might have happen

We can do sweet FA - in any shape or form

Considering most of the world turned their backs on Ireland since 1918..................sod them

Examples of above - refusal to recognise Ireland as a sovereign State during the Versailles Peace Conference . Second example : UN refusing to intervene with NI despite the endless diplomatic campaign by Dr Paddy Hillery - they saw it as an internal matter for the UK - Only the European Court on Human Rights played any real role in the 1950-1970s to highlight the human rights abuse of Crown Forces and RUC .

Only through the EU , can Ireland offer anything constructive, as a total unit.

One poster made a good suggestion - offer asylum to those fleeing persecution

It might be a good excuse and chance to round up any commies and socialists in this country and eh, send them packing , one way or another. Wicklow Mountains could be a suitable location.

Other than that, we will bow to our Russian overlords.

JupiterKid

Well, we do have the iodine tablets if things really escalate...

...and these public service films on how to survive a nuclear attack might come in handy... ☢️ 💥 🤯🤯

...would be better entertainment than the Late Late. 😁

https://youtu.be/yNVMm2KpiDI

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058228755/what-part-if-any-should-ireland-play-in-the-defence-of-ukraine-if-russia-invades

I'd say we should do the same as we have done in the past. Let Russian troop carriers land at Shannon and refuel before they pulverise Kiev like we let American ones do so on their way to levelling Baghdad.

After that we can bitch about Ukrainian refugees arriving here.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118498489#Comment_118498489

Good call, Einstein, and then let's forego the third of a billion quid's worth of imports from Russia and get them elsewhere for twice the price. Perhaps after we close the Russian embassy and they close ours in Moscow we can pay the Brits to represent Irish diplomatic needs in Russia. Then any cargo plane traversing Russian airspace and bound for Ireland full of cheap crap from Bangladesh or Beijing is subject to additional tariffs that need to be paid by the Irish Exchequer (i.e. YOU) and any fuel from Russia sold to Ireland is again subject to additional surcharges. Perhaps we pay a bit more for our communications that bounce off Russian satellites or ones that were put into orbit via Russian rockets.

But yeah, let's send Dimitry and his secretary Katarina, packing from their viper's nest in Ballsbridge.

Any more brainfarts?

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503652#Comment_118503652

At what point would you say the rest of the world needs to step in and do something? Do we just let powerful nations eat up the small ones and turn a blind eye to atrocities?

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500347#Comment_118500347

Isn't it just as disgusting that a Russian diplomat was beaten up by Dutch agents?

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118500410#Comment_118500410

But dumplings are nicer than Twinkies. Tschaikovsky sounds better than Cindy Lauper. Some of us want to be controlled by a superpower with a bit of panache.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118501982#Comment_118501982

"Anyway, Russia has the capability to invade, but probably not the capability of occupying and quelling a guerilla force.!

I dunno. Apparently Russia invaded Crimea and had them all vote (against their will) to become part of Russia again. They [Russia] seem to be doing a good job at keeping the Crimean guerilla resistance movement at bay.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118502929#Comment_118502929

Since the Russians defeated the Nazis and lost over 20 million of their citizens in the process perhaps we should be a bit more thankful to Joe Stalin. Putin is a tough guy but he ain't no Josef.

You see there are some people who care about the plight of others no matter who they are. I care about the Palestinian granny being booted out of her house at gunpoint as the bulldozers come in to level her house and Havi and Rebecca move in and look around and say "yes, our villa will be very nice here". But anyone who attends a demonstration against this, you will call a bunch of **** with their flags and posters.

Where were you when Iraq was invaded and occupied and ultimately destroyed. Afghanistan likewise or Libya? Are you saying that the people of Ukraine are more important to you than the people of Cuba or Venezuela? The butchery in East Timor at the hands of America and the Australians? Was that none of your business either?

Either they are ALL your business or none of them are your business. Don't pick one and blithely ignore a load of others Or is that going to be dismissed as "whatiffery"?

You also talk about neighbours, oh so caring. I hope you aren't referring to the British. So let's look at our closest neighbours.

The Dutch, French, Belgians, British, Spanish, Portuguese.....AHHH bollocks they're all good guys, feckit, I'm ranting. FCUK the RUSSIANS!

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503516#Comment_118503516

If Russia could avoid a single casualty [that is if you believe the bullshit fantasy that they have any interest in invading Ukraine] wouldn't they just shut off gas, oil and electricity to Ukraine rather than send in a single tank?

"Yeah comrades...let's invade a country but continue to supply them with the resources to fight us back." ....and then some bright spark pipes up and says "Actually, why invade? Let's just cut off their energy supply and let them eat each other. Then we deliver them humanitarian aid. These sanctions that the West use seem to have a certain impact. Let's try them with the Ukrainian bastards"

HAHAHA!

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118503636#Comment_118503636

Don't underestimate the ability of an Irish person to defend his/her country from foreign aggression.

BurgerFace

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118504952#Comment_118504952

Since you're bloviating about whose dick is bigger and whose tanks are weaker and all that other adolescent crap, would not the smart money not be on the scummy Russians to not even bother with tanks and planes and just fire a barrage of ICBM's at Kiev, maybe the odd one with a nuclear payload? Not a single Russian live lost in combat or a tank burnt out. Just defeat. I mean you seem to think that Russia just wants to invade and/or obliterate Ukraine. So why would they waste time and fuels and energy and lives doing so? Why not just have a sub from Sevastopol spray Ukraine with a load of ballistic missiles?

You want to know why they don't? Because you are living in a fcuking comic-book world coupled to a video game and low-budget Chuck Norris movie. That's why.

riddles

The West should address Russian citizens directly and ask do they feel military aggression and further chaos is going to address any of their major problems?

climate change

Covid

pollution

food supply and affordability

employment

dealing with an ageing population

Housing

Calling out Putin’s small man syndrome and his BS deflection tactics as he is not winning domestically. Simply asking Russian citizens to reject his nonsense.

The EU is to a large extent culpable by pursuing half baked green solutions which ensure reliance on this clowns major stick.

Any aggression the West should disconnect Russia completely from IT economically - maybe the penny drops in Russia that nationalistic sabre rattling is a concept from the early to mid 20th century.

Freezing the foreign assets of Russian elites will test Putin’s resolve fairly quickly.

Question from someone (me) who can’t be bothered googling it -

What’s the difference between an incursion and an invasion?

migrant

Perhaps Ireland could manage to match the efforts that it put into defeating Naziism. Is that too high a bar?

We could get Michael Flately to organise a line of defence along the entire Ukraine border. No one is getting up after a high kick from a hard shoe!

https://gfycat.com/fatalidolizedflounder

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118497855#Comment_118497855

We would expect France and Germany to help. I don't think anyone would get too sour if the countries of 5 million with a combined air fleet of 6 propeller planes said they couldn't help.

Gatling

@BurgerFace ,,,,,,,,,,,

Nah just nah 🤦

LillySV

We don’t even have one attack helicopter or a single jet fighter…what u want Ireland to do ..step in to declare war on Russia …. All Russia would have to do is successfully get afew jet fighters over to Ireland( we will be relying on Uk protecting us in the skies of course) and one or two little bombing runs and ireland main cities would be in ruins

now near in mind that the corruption and pissing of money away is so bad here when it comes to the govt giving out contracts to rebuild infrastructure … how many centuries and tax raises later might the fix back up Ireland !!?

dxhound2005

Why bother with helicopters and tanks, when we could shut down Moscow with a cyber attack.

https://www.deseret.com/2021/8/11/22606230/inside-a-future-cyberwar

Brian Lighthouse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509967#Comment_118509967

See this is one of the nuances and another reason why we should stay out of it.

Crimea was the Holiday destination of choice for eons and the MRGA crowd applauded loudly after that shenanigan - restore the 1992 constitution - There's a famous video of the Putin Walk into the chamber in the Kremlin afterwards, I think it is this one. https://youtu.be/nYpj3r1Wrck

He knows how to put on a show all the same. And sure isn't that half the battle.

But he does a lot of walking into that chamber so I'm not sure if that video is that exactly. The one following Crimea's vote to restore the 1992 constitution and thereby becoming autonomous and thereby having the freedom to associate with any nation they please.

I really don't think Ukrainian's are flapping as much as we are led to believe they are (about an invasion) those two breakaway "separatist republics" (Donetsk and Luhansk) have now seen 8 years of war and the loss of 13,000 lives. From what I hear they are expecting an invasion, but over the last 8 years they listened to broken promises of ceasefire and predistions of atrocities that never occurred, so forgive them for taking all that is going on now with a pinch of salt.

Right now Putin is holding the cards really close to his chest and no-one can tell you what he is planning to do. No-one knows. He is playing with his soldiers in his own land and that's all he is doing at the moment.

Essientially he is pointing a gun at Ukraine, but he's making his demands while looking at the US (December 17, no NATO for ukraine and no military exercises in Ukraine, it's a bit too close for comfort please and thanks.)

I'll say it once more, Putin is running Russia and thinking it is an empire. He is "Emperor of the Rus" - Overlord of the Great, the Little and the White.

The MRGA crowd at home love it and want more of it.

Not everyone at home agrees with Putin and the MRGA crowd, and that is why Navalny is in jail. All he really said was that Russia is a state, a nation, not an empire.

PS: you might hear reports that the Cyberwar has begun and Russian groups or groups linked to Russia have hacked into Ukrainian "things". Not really new news for example:

December 2021: Australia, A Russian group took owned up to the ransomware attack on utility firm CS energy. The australian media had blamed Chinese Government hackers.

https://www.crn.com.au/news/qld-govt-owned-energy-company-attack-claimed-by-russian-speaking-gang-573831

December 2021: Worldwide, A Russian group using malware on android and windows devices obtained access to private emails of 3,500 government officials. A random newspaper article here:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/google-sues-two-russian-nationals-for-allegedly-hacking-computers-1.4749273

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-57156197

https://www.politico.eu/article/russia-brash-hackers-turn-to-german-election/

AND - IRELAND

May 14, 2021 - The HSE ransomware attack used the Conti Ransomware-as-a-service (RaaS) which was developed and operated by a Russian group.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40714856.html

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509973#Comment_118509973

Your post concentrates of past events many of which are a world away from Ukraine (East Timor, for heaven's sake). We are faces here and now with Russia threatening a war in Europe like nothing since the days of Hitler and Stalin, so stop the monstrous what-aboutery.

On WW2, you cite the Russians as losing 20m while defeating the Nazis. I don't deny for a moment the scale of their effort and losses, but they did it with help from the West, whether material or having the Germans to cope with a Western as well as an Eastern front. And never forget that the whole WW2 started a couple of days after the Stalin-Ribbentrop pact, with the Soviets being complicit with Hitler in the invasion of Poland with all its mass-murder. I have no desire for pointless Russia-bashing, but neither will I accept the big lie that somehow Russia was just a victim, especially when you look at their record in Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia and elsewhere post WW2.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510224#Comment_118510224

Yes we don't have fast jets or attack helicopters , but we still have the ability to defend the country ,and yes we need the RAF to patrol or intercept foreign aircraft ,but we are already part of EU battlegroups who will be tasked to defend against foreign aggression in Europe we also fall under the nato umbrella as part of the partnership for peace ,

Many people sound off about how we are neutral , but we produce dual purpose technologies here guidance systems and others things ,that can be used for civilian purposes but also and mainly goes into missles and aircraft for military purposes ,and you can guarantee that every major conflict that's happened over the last few centuries Irishmen and women have been there on the front lines

AyeGer

Why exactly are Russia so annoyed at the thought of Ukraine joining NATO. They are a separate country.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510972#Comment_118510972

It's considered historical Russia and it's on the border of Russia.

They see it as an existential threat.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510154#Comment_118510154

An invasion implies an intention to stay in control of the country/region for a significant period of time

An incursion is for a particular action (such as a retaliation for some hostile act), carries it out and exits quickly.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510655#Comment_118510655

More Russians died at the hands of various Russian leaderships post WW2 than Jews who died in the Holocaust in Germany , let's blame NATO somehow.

Unfortunately several posters regularly post about how Russia are a victim of nato aggression , they have been completely surrounded and nato have hundreds of thousands of soldiers and tanks , aircraft ,ships preparing to invade Russia ,

When ever asked for evidence to back up the claims we get rants about everyone hating Russians , Russia won WW2 , Russia won this and that ,

Look at what America did in Afghanistan when they invaded ,but wait remember that time Russia invaded afghanistan and massacred the then government before using a scorched earth policy against the civilian population of Afghanistan ,they wiped out agriculture ,cities and towns because they couldn't get a handle on the afghans.

At least when nato and the US went in they actually tried to help the afghan people they rebuilt infrastructure , hospitals , schools , encouraged political movement and empowerment

Fiery mutant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509940#Comment_118509940

"Somw of us want to be controlled by a superpower with a bit of panache"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509978#Comment_118509978

What **** planet are you on? The knots you tie yourself into spouting this rubbish is embarrassing. If you so like the authoritarian bollox then **** off over there to live. You have the mental capacity of a slipper. putting you in the ignore list so I don't have to see your daily vomit across these pages.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510215#Comment_118510215

I have a feeling Germany might not want to be involved in this one.

LillySV

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510948#Comment_118510948

I know what your saying but I still don’t think Ireland as a nation needs to raise its head above the parapet . And just like Afghanistan, Vietnam etc… I’d wonder would the people appreciate our involvement at the end of it all anyways ?… I’d doubt it… thousands of innocents would be slaughtered by both sides and Russia will still take over, if that’s what they want. Us , Britain and the western Allie’s are no longer the superpowers now … that honor lies with the likes of China , russias pals… Russia themselves have a fierce arsenal too . I don’t see any good coming out of it

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511333#Comment_118511333

That was about if the UK invaded us which was the example the poster used.

I Should have made it a bit clearer.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511344#Comment_118511344

What , we're being invaded ?

I still have my FCA great coat .

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511358#Comment_118511358

Must get one myself. Gonna be freezing up in Cratloe Woods hiding from the tans.

corner of hells

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511394#Comment_118511394

Them tans would be pretty old now , you'll be fine.

techman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118510215#Comment_118510215

If you look back at our history, France or Spain the big powers back in time never came to our aid, they sent small contingents alright but they were never prepared for a fully fledged engagement over Ireland, we just were not important enough

As for Germany, a German engagement never even got off the paper.

breezy1985

Don't forget the Scottish. De Bruce sent his brother over with an army but we didn't really understand what was going on and never got behind him.

We got our own back on the Spanish and their paltry aid by sending them the feckless Blueshirts.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511400#Comment_118511400

Comparing history several centuries back is no way related to modern Europe,but we're not alone

bilston

Nothing Ireland can do, not really anyone can do other than the US, but if thebUS push too hard things could quickly get out of control.

The US, Brits and a few others are sending military hardware to Ukraine, but its tokenism. If Russia wants to invade Ukraine it will and only the US can stop them and they won't. Perhaps the combined military might of all of Europe might be able to do something, but they'll never all agree.

Its a delicate situation, pretty much any former Soviet state that hasn't joined NATO and hasn't been pro Moscow has suffered directly or indirectly from Russia in the last 20 odd years so I can understand why Ukraine would want to join NATO. Equally I can understand why Russia don't want NATO right on its doorstep.

Now if Russia eventually turns its attentions to the Baltic States or even Poland then thats different gravy and we're all in the s***

techman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118511454#Comment_118511454

If the British had serious designs on us again like the Russians have over Ukraine now, nobody would come to our aid.

They wouldn't consider France or Germany too much, only the US would have big sway over Britain. In fact it was the need by Churchill to keep America on side at start of WW2 that prevented him ignoring Irish neutrality and also the fact he already had northern Ireland anyway

BorneTobyWilde

If Russia invades and take over Ukraine, the US will do something like make it impossible for Putin to buy a Stetson Cowboy Hat, and then declare themselves victors , that's the reality.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512215#Comment_118512215

I mean it's fantasy land stuff anyway but no way would the UK be allowed to invade an EU country

Just Some Young Lad

Listen, we can't wade into this from a military perspective, whether we'd like to or not. In fact, picking a side in a war like this would invalidate our neutrality, the one thing that keeps us safe. Diplomacy might be an option but I highly doubt it will ever come to that.

The truth is that this is just a power play. Russia doesn't want Ukraine to join NATO, which I can understand. Then Russia would be in the striking zone for a lot more NATO firepower if it was stationed there. On the flipside, NATO don't want Ukraine to be controlled by Russia for the same reasons. It's the epitome of the two biggest guys on the playground jeering and sneering at each other.

Ireland - depending on when a conflict occurred, might be able to offer humanitarian aid and could offer to assist with logistics when it comes to refugees but that will be dependent on when and if something happens.

Gatling

@JustSomeLad picking a side in a war like this would invalidate our neutrality, the one thing that keeps us safe.

We're about as neutral as any other countries in Europe or further afield ,

The reason we're safe has been were an island with a bigger island separating us from Europe proper ,not be because of some political term

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509874#Comment_118509874

Russian's have been transiting Shannon a number of years en-route to Africa and South America, they just don't fly through in overt military aircraft (although some are ex-mil)

shillyshilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118509967#Comment_118509967

Crimea isn't an area the size of Ukraine, it is also a strategic point for Russia which has been heavily fortified ... there is a reason why there is more soldiers there than locals there.... might be the reason too as to why they have held onto it...

you really are coming out with some serious garbage today