Joining The Party (I hope)

squinn2912

I’m not even sure where this is saving such is my remedial ability in navigating Boards!

The Past

Anyhow. I’m at a bit of a crossroads. I’ll begin with background - 14 marathons from 2008-2019. Sub 3 was my Holy Grail and I got the monkey off my back on my second attempt & 5th marathon and that’s a kind of story in itself. I remember having a brutal programme and signed up in a what the hell kinda way. The morning of the marathon was a wretched one and I almost turned the car on the way into Newry. Fast forward a few hours and I did a 1:27 second half to come in on 2:59. Funny how it can come together.

So I came out on the right and wrong side of a few more sub 3 attempts for the next few years and then kicked on a bit with more thoughtful planning in 2018 and dipped in under the 2:55. Kicked on another bit in 2019 and made my own plans for Belfast. Adjusted time of 2:53 after the long fiasco. Then injuries hit and when they hit they didn’t stop hitting. I had been going pretty well over the summer in 2019 and unexpectedly an ankle and hip niggle emerged. I went to an S&C coach to try to correct a few things and now 2 years have gone by and they’ve been injury blighted. He’s a good coach and highly thought of but I’ve decided it’s not working for me after having had a 9 month groin problem.

The Now

So that’s me done looking backwards in this thread (I said I’d make one and here it is, if it’s no good then aw well it’s better than no effort!)

At the moment I’ve been managing my groin and knocking out 30 odd mpw fairly consistently. This week I got out 6 days and just under 40 miles. On physio’s orders they were to be slow due to covid (anyone ever heard that phrase?). They were all slow except Thursday which was 6.5 miles @ 6:58 average. I’m just relieved to be coming through it at reduced levels of pain. Back to 5 days this week with a wee bit added on to each run to result in around the same mileage and when February comes I’ll assess where I can go then, if all goes well…

The Future

So Belfast marathon is 15 weeks today. I think that’s a little soon so I’m looking at Cork which gives me a few more weeks to get a sensible programme in. My plan is to build conservatively and I’ve identified 3 marathon goals;

Gold = Sub 2:50

Silver = PB 2:52

Bronze = Sub 3.

I’m also preparing myself mentally for the possibility of not running a marathon in the spring. Should that happen then I’ll settle for getting back into racing and attacking my shorter PBs

HM = 1:21

10km = 36:12

5km = 17:32

I’m a towering 5’ 9 and my racing weight is usually around 11st 4lbs, I went away over 12st and am currently sitting about 11st 9 - I think I can be a healthy 11st on the snout.

I talk in miles if you haven’t guessed and resist modernisation at all costs. I miss punts, cash, Ireland going to World Cups and having to worry about parking at Croke Park.

I’m an Irish teacher mar sin tá fáilte roimh Ghaeilge anseo and a farmer and we’re coming into calving season so prepare for some tired posts!

So I’ll try to maintain updates here and I’ll see if it gains any traction. Please feel free to offer your opinion I’ve fairly thick skin. Some of the other logs I read are really informative and supportive so I hope this one will be too.

shotgunmcos

Welcome at last!! That Injury but sounds incessant. Usually PT and its homework gets me back on track, ever slower I may add. This recent one is ongoing 9 months and physio, conservative treatment and a full 3 months no running didn't solve it.

What's your next move to see about your groin, given your targets will require a ramp up soon enough?!

squinn2912

Thanks pal haha! Ah it’s driven me mad. My own unqualified opinion is that the S&C didn’t suit my body I think these things are very personal rather than a ‘this works’ approach. You know the cliché about the definition of insanity I’m sure! So I decided to knock the gym work on the head. It means not getting up at silly o’clock on Tuesdays and Thursdays. The truth is that my running has only been decent to good during lockdowns so I figure I’m no worse off anyhow.

What is your injury?

Next move is to gently build volume while keeping pace easy enough except maybe one day per week, then 2. The physio reckons it’s improving and I asked him if he could pinpoint what the problem is. He told me we’ll fix it first and then look at what needs strengthened and I’m happy enough with that after all that torture. So I’d say my updates will likely be groin groin groin for a wee while but I’m prepared for that. In terms of when the training ramps up then that’s gonna be when the body allows it. There’s no point in rushing things. It might mean a 10-12 week programme for the marathon or sitting it out even but I’m optimistic. At the moment I’m doing dynamic warm ups for every run which is both activating and strengthening and after making those changes I feel much happier about running and relief that I’ve finally lanced the boil.

Swashbuckler

Happy to see this. Welcome to the logs. I'll follow with interest. You've hit that holy grail before me so i've plenty to learn from you.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488305#Comment_118488305

Aw you’re very kind to say that but getting there earlier doesn’t mean all that much! Your log sets the standard and I enjoy the detail. I’ll keep the updates coming anyhow sure and there might be an odd grain

Swashbuckler

I like the way you took a similar approach to me with your log title....not quite committing but hopeful nonetheless 😂

AuldManKing

Great to see this - looking forward to following along.

MY BAD

All the best. I'm looking forward to see your progress.

healy1835

Great to see you starting a log. I used to love reading about some of your casual sub 3's in a couple of other threads :)

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488533#Comment_118488533

Haha well that was a little double joke for my own amusement! I had no confidence that it would save in the training logs and then obviously there’s a fair bit of uncertainty with the bits of niggles so there it is

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488680#Comment_118488680

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118488963#Comment_118488963

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118489540#Comment_118489540

Thanks lads, much appreciated! The next one is going to be my best one cos it will be the one where I have to come back after injury, weight gain, frustration etc the timescale is kinda tight but I am determined to smash my PB and I just wanna get going. I’ve always run quite well with a kinda chip on my shoulder and used negative energy - anger, frustration, someone else telling me I’m not good enough to do xyz but at the moment I’m in a really good place and I can’t wait to get going. I feel brilliant mentally and even if my times dont come down right away I am really looking forward to enjoying the next few months of training. I’m taking a rest day today but I really feel like running. I’ll not do it though.

Haha BTW the sub3s never really felt casual. Now I know a bit more about what training is or should ideally be I can talk about them casually… that’s always easier after you’ve come through it! Sub 3 is a wonderful achievement and represents a body of work. My flippant responses don’t mean to ever undermine that for anyone else or myself! But yea it’s just a number in the grand scheme. I need to reopen your log @healy1835 I take fits and starts.

Wee note on the Jack Daniels book. Lovin it! Thanks for the recommendation especially @Swashbuckler The bit about positivity as a coach has really resonated with me and I’ll flick though that bit many times in the future as a reminder for motivation etc

shotgunmcos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118487061#Comment_118487061

Injury is infrapatellar fat pad. Physio had me taping it up but even rock tape wouldn't stay on, despite shaving around the knee. Problem with not running is I abandoned the strength stuff too, so I really need to go back to that first. Simple extended rest doesn't make it go away unfortunately

healy1835

Well if you've gotten as far as Rotterdam in my log, then I'm happy to tell you there are some great days ahead 😁

squinn2912

Right update time I think one a week would likely do for the time being but I might go again in a day or two. So here’s how this week has gone so far.

I’ve been advised to do 5 days this week rather than the 6 last week so I’m aiming to hit the same or slightly more miles over the 5 days (40 miles)

Monday - rest. Dealt with the demons of not running ok. Stayed late in work to kill the time. Done a bit round the yard at home. Core and upper body 20mins soft kinda workout.

Tuesday - 8 miles easy 7:31 average bang on what I wanted and bang on what I wanted to feel. Bit further than I’m used to so I’m pleased. Just building miles atm. Breaking in a new pair of orthotics as well so plenty of caution this week. With the rest day yesterday I thought I could give it a slight wee bit more in the middle miles so I ran 15 secs quicker than easy pace. One mile 7:13s - silly it wasn’t part of the plan.

Wednesday - 6.6 miles easy. 7:47 average. Bang on.

Thursday - rest day - 20 mins core/upper body and away to watch Spider-Man - see it if you can!

Friday - Morning run. Plan - 3 out at 8:00, 3 back at 7:15

Reality - 7:55, 7:53, 7:56 then 7:14, 7:13 7:10 and 0.7 @ 7:51 pace. So hit it pretty close. Happy to be back working towards some kinda ‘session’ (stop laughing) kinda stuff. I was nervous heading out for this - how would the groin hold up and how would I be on hills - passed both tests. Found it difficult keeping it to 7:15s but I didn’t stray too far. HR peaked at 143 average 134 so bang on for that, even if I don;t often monitor it.

Plan for Saturday is 12 miles easy so I’m feeling decent about that. Completing this week will give me a fair amount of confidence and then should next week work as well I’ll be able to start thinking about programmes. The 1st February is a key date. I have a feeling I’ll read back over these early days as a good motivator and a measure of how far I’ve come.

squinn2912

Saturday - 12.6 miles.

I’ve decided that 7:45 is my easy pace which is a little harder than I’m used to. Went solo, one partner is nursing injuries and has covid while the other thinks I’m a leper from having it 3 weeks ago! Sometimes I prefer doing my own thing and I tend to run faster on long runs but then the craic isn’t the same… So I averaged this one at 7:40 which is a bit faster than I’ve been going of late but I was in a decent rhythm and was just enjoying myself.

Spent most of the day very stiff around the groin and was already a little irked on Friday night when my father asked his weekly question “are you runnin in the mornin” which really means he’s planned a siege of a day running after cattle. 41 more of them are now clipped and done for lice I got shite in my eye but that’s a minor thing in the grand plan of making every weekend harder than the working week. Anyhow complaint aired.

Sunday - 6 miles

I’d have been in a bad way but I was running today. I concentrated on recovery and aimed at keeping everything slow. Felt the blood circulating nicely and ran smoothly. I chuckled at a gang of cyclists who were coming behind me and screaming ‘KEEP LEFT!!!!!’ Perish the thought that they would keep right. Such stress heads. 90 seconds later I could see them all pulling into the shop for a break. Growling more to do with safety I know but God they get under my skin.

So negativity aside that’s 40 miles for the week back to back and I’m contented with that. A decent indication of where the mindset is that I found myself looking through my Garmin data for 2019 and where I was that January. Not that far ahead of where I am now just that I had DCM 2018 in me at the time and I was doing more quick stuff. Still though with a month longer to prepare that’s encouraging. Just considering that the weather for Cork on June 5th could be quite hot. I’ve not been great in the heat before which can attack you in May just as easily. My thoughts are that you’re better being well trained than having favourable weather on the day, would you guys be with me on that?

Murph_D

The weather is beyond your control, the training is within it, so yes, I'm with you on that statement. If the weather's unfavourable, you adjust the plan and run the best race you can.

Love these farming snippets - makes this log kind of unique. Keep 'em coming!

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118521843#Comment_118521843

Ha! If I’m depending on the cattle to make the log entertaining I’m badly off but sure I’ll let yous know how calving is going anyhow haha

just out of the physio's and all is well improved thank God.

Swashbuckler

Can I ask what's the rationale behind picking 7.45 as easy pace. Surely easy just means easy, regardless of pace?

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527634#Comment_118527634

Hi lad sorry I’m just seeing this. Em I’m not that awful sure I would have recovery pace which would be well over 8s if I’m doing it right and then like second day easy running would be 7:45 to 8:00 anything round that. My long runs are normally slow and without ‘stuff’ just easy pace. At 7:40 and below I’m working so that’s what I was trying to convey in the post it was a run straddling the line between easy and steady.

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118527634#Comment_118527634

The interesting part is I always thought the same… more or less. Easy is what easy feels. So I stuck to (excuse me for using km/h) easy which been around 4:50 and slower. Going by experts (and VO2max tests) my easy pace should be 4:10-4:20. Tried that a few times and most certainly didn’t feel easy at all (on the legs but heart rate was fine). so stopped that and went back to easy feel.

Only after the plan said “easy at 4:25” it started to feel easy to the extent that I now even go beyond that pace when not watching the watch but going by feel. so what I’m kinda trying to say is: I think at some point you need to stick to a pace and go away from feel as feel can be misleading (which goes in both directions).

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118532019#Comment_118532019

No worries lad I’m old school but I can count just about haha!

I often wonder why so many programmes are worked from marathon goal pace and then forward to tempo/interval and back to steady and easy instead of starting off at easy and working forward from that. People tend to run to feel for easy but run to time for almost everything else which is a bit of a paradox.

Anyhow I’m going off on one there’s big news. The easy I mentioned earlier was approximate, anyone who ever gave me coaching or advice told me to run at 7:40 - 8:00 for easy so I do run to feel and it almost always is something in that range. With injuries etc recently it’s more likely to be the upper end so that’s why my 7:40 average the other day was worth noting (I think!)

squinn2912

Alert! Alert! I did a tempo!!!

Monday - Nice, easy paced 7 miles on a cold, crisp but dry evening. This turned out to be a lovely run I REALLY enjoyed it. The whole town was out. I bumped into one of my partners and stood for a while having a craic after all the covid business that was a relief for us both. So we’re gonna meet up again this weekend for the long stuff and maybe another time beforehand if it can be worked. This man is an anecdote king so I’m looking forward to a few stories!

In addition to that the GAA club have the perimeter of the 2 fields tarmaced and concreted and the walk into the light and healthy club walks are on so the lights were all on and I did a couple of laps. Heaps of walkers, kids out kickin ball, committee member taking down names and the groundsmen fussing about for morning waiting to turn off the lights. They both came out of their wee hut to shout to me as I frequent the pitch, especially in winter.

Then on the footpaths everywhere I went I met someone my da’s mates gowlin well young Quinn, lads round my run that;s the boy Stevie. The B players were out doing a jog and they were joking that they might be too quick for me. All in all it was massively uplifting and people love to see people just at it so I was lovin all that.

Tuesday - Here it is, buckle up!

Session - 4 miles @ 6:35

Right so I did some activation exercises then 1 mile warm up then took off vowing I wouldn’t go mad on the first mile. It felt like a race and (quit laughing) I said a wee prayer as I got going. I got about 200 yards and sensed a yoke behind me and realised it was the oul boy’s van… window down “well are you just finishing” inside am thinkin will ya f*ck off da but I said no startin I’ll be half an hour or so and I’ll ring ya. “No, be in the yard and I’ll be back” “Right” so on I went cursing the inevitable stitch that would come from talking and running.

Anyhow I got them done - 6:28, 6:33, 6:31 & 6:36 - made a balls of the last one trying not to go too fast and then day dreaming for the last 20 yards when I knew the session was done. No big problem. 2 mile cool down and done! Couple of hours to get cattle sorted and back home to get marking essays and prepping for orals - love it!

Thoughts - a tempo is a tempo. I’m delighted. Felt much easier than I expected. My breathing was a little of early on and I’m shiiiiite at pacing after so long doing vanilla but I’m getting back to something like myself. Groin a little stiff 3/4 way through and an hour after but if it continues to improve and I get a bit of strength back into the glute and hip then I think I’m good to go!

This has got me checking out PB years and the training I’d be doing. In mileage I’m not gonna be very far off what January was in 2019 I’d have done a bit more quick stuff but no hurry there. I did Belfast that year so based on that I could look at it. My thinking now though is to bank the base miles and start the programme properly and give Cork a rattle. To that end me and herself booked a couple of nights in Cobh for midterm and I’m gonna try to get a look at the route for myself, even drive it.

squinn2912

Decided to give a mini-update tonight.

Wednesday - The plan was to do a 10k easy recovery pace. We’ve kinda addressed what easy means to us all and I tend to think of two easy paces. One is where you might do a long or medium long run or just get some miles in - that’s about 7:45s for me give or take. The other is recovery easy the day after a tough session or the day after my long run. Usually this is planned to be 8:20s and sometimes I run them quicker than intended.

Anyhow that was my plan. Got home from school and fired on the wellies, down to the yard and got stuck into the evening turns with the oul man. About an hour into it my groin was screaming at me. I could not believe it ffs. It had been grand all day and I couldn’t believe this. So I dragged my leg around and got read up but decided to knock the run on the head and did a little core work and foam rolling, everything pretty tight. Went to bed in foul form mostly with the knowledge that there might be an apology or two owed by morning. Then the hooer of a tv turned itself on at 2am. Full blast scary piano music blaring round the house. So I staggered down the stairs, the air was blue, off at the wall and back to the nest. Deep breathing to calm back down and the next thing it’s morning.

Thursday - Tentatively got out of the bed this morning trying to keep the leg as straight as possible. Bit of walking about and no pain (great!). A day of oral assessments, complaints from every quarter and a drama with the 3rd years after their French teacher told them there are no jobs in Irish (evidenced by a google search in England!) Anyhow I deal with all of that fine and kinda forget the leg or at least the groin didn’t remind me it needs attention. So… same scenario this evening rootin about down with the cattle, checking the cows that are coming close to calving - the order is kinda 4, 12, 4, 6, 6… and then I feel the groin again and I’m fit to be tied! So minded myself, picked up Da from the mechanic’s where he had to leave the van and then got home to get ready to meet my pal for a run - shoulda done a decade but I didn’t think of it - so running leggings (without shorts) on and off I go - 7 miles easy NO BOTHER! My theory is the old orthotics in the wellies are the culprits. So some learning has occurred, please forgive my verbosity I promise the next update won’t be such a diary but it was a manic day or two and that’s a huge effect on all of our running yet something we don’t always tend to consider! I’ll take whatever abuse comes, I’m just glad to get through that run the jitters were on!

babacool

Nothing wrong with a good diary 😁. So did you throw out the wellies and switched to good old fashioned hiking/ trail running boots? 🙂

Laineyfrecks

Welcome to the logs! I have just caught up & enjoyed your diary approach...especially all your interactions with your Da & the farming!

Very best of Luck with your goals, will follow with interest 😊

Swashbuckler

Yeah the stories are brilliant to be honest.

"Anyhow that was my plan. Got home from school and fired on the wellies"

I was fully sure that was going to be followed by "and headed off for my run".

Listen I know we talked about the old Asics shoes and you need to move with the times but wellies for a run!!?

😂

squinn2912

HAhahaha AW you townies!! I was just thinking chronologically and the wellies were relevant later on! Now and again the run does be in the wellies but not by design!

Thanks @Laineyfrecks me and the oul man are as thick as thieves but we’re always at each other too haha

I’m gonna talk to the physio this weekend about new runners and orthotics… in the meantime my new cumulus arrived yesterday!!

E.coli

Don’t mind them squinn and all the over reliance on tech in shoes, Emil Zatopek was a triple Olympic champion training in army boots 😜 character is something no amount of gadgets can produce.

Good to see this log up and running will be following along for the training and the narratives that come with it

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118547582#Comment_118547582

Thanks buddy! I think I’ll settle for the one Olympic Gold sure it’ll do rightly!! Ah sure hi I don’t mind providing some entertainment and it’s hard to beat having a bit of craic!

Great, good to know you’ll keep an eye and I hope you’ll chip in with some suggestions/opinions as things arise!

squinn2912

Friday - Got out after school for an easy run again 7:45 average. Groin in better shape and feeling much more encouraged. Out then for beers for a leaving do which was really just 4 pigs shovelling Guinness into us. I was on a 9.45 curfew so I did the only thing you do and got 2 rounds in at 9.15 - last 2 at tempo pace 😁

So that meant that on Saturday I was gooey enough despite my protests the night before that I was sober. Talkin Shiite and dishin out apologies but more paranoia than reality… always the better way around! I went down to the yard and shovelled another kinda black stuff for a couple of hours and consoled myself that I was getting some core work in. New orthotics in the wellies all the time now instead of bein a lazy bollox and I’m a new man.

Sunday So following on from the **** shovelling I made an afternoon decision that I’d go down to Croker to cheer on the orangemen. What a performance!!! There were 6 empty seats to my left in the middle of the Hogan and it was just as well I had a little runway cos when Rian walloped that goal home I went absolutely buck mental! He’s actually a second cousin so you can all see sporting excellence is familial in this situation 😉 In all seriousness I dont think there’s a better forward in Ireland. Now I know it was only Dublin but a very encouraging start to the year!!

Anyhow back to me. Set out this morning and banged out 14 miles. Kinda out and back route and I took on hills on the harder way round if you get me. On the way back I decided I’d open the legs out a bit and gave it some for 5k between miles 8-11 I hit them at 7:14, 6:54 and 6:52 and then was on 6:28 pace for the 0.1. I finished that segment going round the field at the Rangers - I rarely do a long run without a lap or two, kinda like a Rite of Passage. So I’m absolutely jacked with adrenaline, back straight, lungs full and landing on the sweet spot of my foot - Cian McConville (another 2nd cousin) is on his own with a dozen balls practicing his shooting - there’s just something I absolutely adore about running round the track/path there when some of the boys are training. I felt like I could easily do 6 miles at this pace but I go against my nature and try to hold back again for the hills home. Got it tight to slow to 7:25s again as I was just pumped.

So that’s 5hrs 23 for the week and 42.3 miles with a reintroduction of some pace. A midweek wobble but a strong, solid finish to the week. I don’t think I’m in marathon training yet I’m not calling it that, but it’s very solid preparatory material. I like to compare myself to myself (in order to find true greatness 😂) and I’m now 12 miles short of January for the PB year and that’s in a month where I’ve had niggles and covid and still have a day to go (I’m not doing another 12!) so I’m drawing a lot of positivity from all of that. I’m hoping at some time next month I can take on a race but no rush for that either.

squinn2912

Monday - 7.20 miles easy

Averaged 8:23 just went relaxed looked down at the watch an odd time and was pretty shocked to see how slow I was going it felt faster. Banked some miles and we’re on the go again.

Tuesday - 8 miles, 5@ tempo

Plan was to run at 6:35 average. Did some activation work and then 1 mile warm up and bit the lip and away. Averaged 6:31 for the tempo miles but it took a lot more out of me. I think Sunday’s run was still in the legs, it was windy and I just wasn’t in top form. Sleep not been wonderful the last 3 nights and a night on the beer lasts in the system a bit too. HR was averaging 169 and I spent 36 mins in zone 5 according to the garmin. Was very windy and of course I got the rain as well which would take it out of you too a bit. Felt a wee bit like a race effort when you’re having a sh*t race.

So I’m feeling very drained tonight but I’m taking the positives out of it too. I’ve banked another session of tempo or MP type running while gently raising the miles. If I haven’t said already I’m gonna do 45 miles this week so 30 to go. Tomorrow I had marked for a rest day with the 5 day week still in my plan. I feel like I’m keeping the shackles on a bit but that’s kinda what I want as well for now. In the next week or two I hope to ramp things up a bit.

squinn2912

Thursday - 8.5 miles easy with 10 x 30sec on/off

Friday - 7 miles easy pace

Two horrendous evenings got absolutely drenched. Text one of the lads to meet me and he was on for it. 3 miles went round doing laps into light rain but strong wind and eventually 2 of them arrive. They’d done a 3 mile loop. Got 2 miles in with them then ran one home, the other was for doing another mile and I had 3 left when it came on in a full pelt so he ran for cover while I pushed on. Got back up to the field and did the strides. Operation Transformation were up with cameras but mercifully they weren’t interested in me… I must have looked as wretched as I felt!

Friday I said to myself I’d get out during a lull in the rain. Set off and the sun was shining I’m thinking what made me wear the extra layer AND gloves… Anythow I was thinking If the weather would hold like this for half an hour then it can do what it likes. At 28 mins the sky darkened and I thought here we ****ing go. At 32 the hailstones came down like golf balls and seemed to hit me from every side. That subsided after about 10 mins into heavy rain and then sleety snow. 4 seasons in one hour. Got the run in anyhow but it’s another solo long run tomorrow morning cos I can’t align with anyone else’s free time. Dunno how I’m gonna get through it. I checked the HR of the last two nights and I’m averaging above 170 which is a bit annoying. I’m telling myself it’s the weather and on Sunday I’ve planned a rest day… from running.

Cleaned out the calving pens when I got home and sweettalked the girls not to be having any ideas about pushing wee feet out over the weekend. Went to meet a buddy then who is taking the club minors this year and he’s asked me to take them for some running/fitness work. There’s a lot on the plate but it is nice to be asked too. Something to mull over during this long (ish) run in the morning.

Any motivation would be welcome

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118584865#Comment_118584865

😁😁😁😁😁😁 and you like my style of putting down the thoughts 😁😁😁😁.

seems like I’m living in the wrong part of the country. All I can say is, embrace those conditions! Embrace the wind, embrace the hailstorm and snow and rain and everything. It will make you stronger and prepare you perfectly for race day.

with regards to HR. Is that strap or wrist reading? Sounds a bit high to me. 🤔

Motivation I can’t provide. Running is stupid. Running is horrible. Running is painful. Running is …. What makes us feel alive! Always remember, there are people who would love to go for a run but can’t as ie in a wheelchair. So stop moaning and go out there! Embrace the world and don’t sweat it!

oh and with regards to being over or underdressed, just always dress like it’s minus 20 degrees out there even if it’s plus 100. You can always drop clothes when on a run but hardly ever put something on that you didn’t bring with you.

Swashbuckler

I got caught i those co ditions Friday. Destroyed. Weirdly I don't mind it though as long as its not sustained for ages.

Does the HR plot look normal when you view it? 170 sounds high but any idea what your max HR is ? I'd be slowing those easy runs down a bit if its genuinely not easy easy.

Swashbuckler

Judging by your long run this morning your 170 HR during the week was either fake news (bad reading from the monitor) or nothing to worry about (tiredness or dehydration).

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585251#Comment_118585251

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585286#Comment_118585286

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118585836#Comment_118585836

Thanks lads just the few wee nudges I needed!

Saturday - 15 miles

7:49 average and HR 151 - back to what I wanted to be at. The run didn’t feel great and the pile of coffee last night didn’t help things too much but the numbers are back.

I did a bit of an out and back (mainly and of course the obligatory couple of laps of the Rangers) the 7 miles out was downhill mainly but against the wind for once as it very rarely blows that direction. So I found it hard on a full enough stomach. At the turn I found it easier to hold some kinda pace but kept it around the same just nothing was sneaking over the 8:00. If I needed to allow it I would have there was no issue there the purpose of the run was to hit the miles so I wanted to just do that. Up the hills back up to cross with predictions of what time I’d be at XYZ - got them almost all wrong but that’s not the point.

Hi @Swashbuckler I wonder would wearing the watch on the outside of the long sleeves or gloves give you a bollox of a reading? Maybe that. Hydration should have been decent all week.

And Babs… I love your style!!!

So there’s another week closed out and I’m at 45.95 miles If I’d known I would have gone on for another 20 secs 😂

Gonna have a wee think about what mileage I should cover next week I’ll stick to the one run with pace and flick a coin on strides. My initial thought is to keep it at 45 and play this one at a draw then increase again the week after next. If I were doing Belfast then I’m bang on target for where I’d have expected myself to be. If Cork is a month later then I feel good about things. I will need to move onto that second day’s pace in the week but I don’t care about that until the bottom end of February.

Swashbuckler

Is the sensor at the back of the watch face not making contact with your skin?

Laineyfrecks

I think the motivation is there but it's ok to feel sh!tty running in weather like ours! I've been told on numerous occasions that its character building by @Swashbuckler amongst others😉 It doesn't feel like it when you are in the thick of it! I do believe it stands to you & when you look back on it you believe you were a dedicated, determined hard as$ runner...well that's what I think when I look back on my 2019 Bohermeen training, I really thought at times I was mental training in the dark, rain, wind & sleet 🤣 but I do believe it stood to me as the day of the race included all of the above weather, but I got my PB & was thrilled! Basically what I'm saying is there's nothing we can do about the bad weather but just going out to run in it shows the motivation is there!

Swashbuckler

Yep. Even if race day has absolutely perfect conditions, when the going gets tough, as it always does, it's added motivation to push on and suck it up knowing you worked your ass off in awful weather in training...

babacool

With regards to HR - i always suggest a little manual test (and to be honest even 154 I would consider extremely high for a long run). So here is what I do (and figured not to trust the wrist reading at all). Go for a run. After 20min look at what the watch says your HR is. Get ready to quickly find your pulse with your fingers. Stop (keep the watch on so you see the timer) and count your pulse for 10sec. Continue running at same effort as before. multiply your count by 6 and add 5 beats to the total. Now see if that number is within 5 beats of what your watch said before you stopped.

do that on an easy run but also do it once during a harder effort run. What I found is that if the watch is on the arm correctly the reading on an easy run is fairly accurate (if too lose or tight it has an impact already). But on workouts it’s more than just off. It’s unreliable. Tested that with 2 different wrist monitors and same result. Hence i personally gave up on this.

Swashbuckler

Opposite experience for me to be honest . Generally my session readings are bang on. Easy can be hit and miss sometimes. But generally accurate. Either way I'm not one for spending too much time worrying about heart rate. It's a handy tool but not one I focus too much on.

babacool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118586768#Comment_118586768

I’d say the older you are the less importance it has. At least that’s what I keep telling myself and as said, no more going by HR but feel.

Murph_D

My advice is, if you want to run by HR, use a strap. The wrist sensors are not reliable enough. Sometimes great, more often way off, whether you're young or old.

E.coli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587269#Comment_118587269

Funnily I think the only times my wrist sensor is actually accurate tends to be race days for what ever reason.

With that in mind worth nothing that HR can be useful information but it can in itself be highly unreliable.

Look at the things which can affect it; freshness/fatigue, sleep, hydration, stress, time you run at, illness, what food you are that day, conditions, course profile to name a few. Unless you factor all that in it’s as general a guide as pace to be honest.

If you do want to use it however best advice is don’t plan a sordid rendezvous with the neighbours wife pre run if you are aiming to keep the HR accurate for an easy run 😂

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587384#Comment_118587384

I guess I always assumed its most accurate on race day because the heart rate is so high meaning the sensitivity of the monitor matters less. Whereas with easy running it's a "faint" pulse and harder to detect. Coming from a background in electronics I probably should know the reason. 😅

Murph_D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587384#Comment_118587384

But, but, but... isn't it precisely because HR is affected by all those things that it IS an accurate guide. If you're tired/stressed etc HR will be higher, so your pace for a 'normal' effort (under 'normal' conditions) will be slower. So running to HR helps you not overdo (or underdo) the effort.

E.coli

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118587483#Comment_118587483

I think it depends on if you subscribe to training zone and physiological model training theory.

https://www.scienceofrunning.com/2012/06/physiological-model-of-training-why-i.html?v=47e5dceea252

I think you make a great point about under doing it regards effort and usually HR is a good beginners guide to slowing down but arguably it can also cause people to go too far in that regard and paint by numbers so to speak too conservatively as training age progresses

babacool

To be honest when I personally still looked at my HR and made sure I’m ok HR wise it was always only for easy runs to ensure I’m not going too fast on those. As for workouts it’s always been pace or effort (based on feel) rather than HR. Had it a few times where a session was meant to be something like 10min @ 165bpm and I even struggled getting to 160 as the legs were tired and heavy. So pushing to the limit would have meant overdoing it despite being at the right HR range. Guess that’s what e.coli means (to some extent). HR is influenced by so many things and just going by that (regardless in what direction) could cause issues but also hold you back.

also i know a few “aged” runners who push, run fast and the HR is low. Or some ladies I know regardless on how slow they run, the HR is high. They would have to walk to keep the HR low.

in short, my personal experience is: go by HR at the beginning to get a good feel of your pace & fitness but at some point, turn off the HR reading. It will distract you. It took me a long time to realise that but I’m a lot happier with runs since I don’t have that constant focus on it.

squinn2912

Some very interesting thoughts from you guys on HR. I’ve never trained to HR I’m more into feel and what I believe are potential goals. If I feel drained then I take a passing glance at the HR just cos it’s there. Something I would keep an eye on. If it looks very high then I’d be checking it a bit tighter until it goes back down and then forget about it, maybe for months! Races I’ve been surprised at how low it’s been, maybe that indicates good fitness and pacing? Eg Dublin Marathon average was 139 and the highest bits were in the first 25 mins, likely a hill or two.

Swashbuckler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118589171#Comment_118589171

But back to my original question. If you don't have the watch in direct contact with your skin , in otherwords if you have a sleeve or a glove between the watch and your skin, then your readings will be questionable at best and more likely junk.

squinn2912

Yea possibly. To tell you the truth I don’t even remember Thursday and Friday how I had it on. I was checking someone else’s HR and then thought I wonder what mine was… then I saw it sky high. Overthinking likely.