Do men need a license to be allowed socialise (MOD NOTE IN OP)

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512653#Comment_118512653

cctv is one of the best inventions ever. More cameras will make 'em think twice and make people feel a bit safer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513546#Comment_118513546

Oh, I know the point... present unwinnable scenarios so that emotion is picked over rational thinking. Stoke the fear so that people respond to emotional triggers, and accept idiotic solutions that lead them into worse situations.

The problem with modern feminism is that it's begun to seek to place women above men, so that equality is no longer desired. Men are the enemy, and they need to be hobbled. As such, discrimination, stereotyping, the reinforcement of gender roles, etc are all brought in to play to categorize men. To take everything that feminism once sought to fight against, and instead, apply it to marginalizing men in society. That way the positions of women in society are assured and everything done to establish that position is justified. Facts will only matter once they have won, and decided what information is relevant.

The sad thing is that we would naturally dismiss such as being extremist and impractical... but over the years, most things coming from the media, or the social sciences (and by extension, psychology/sociology/HRM) seek to encourage exaggeration and the embrace of double standards, whether that's through the support of ideas like positive discrimination, or simply deciding that we need quotas to ensure a base minimum of women in industries (but no comment when there are more women than men)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEz1qGS0T1Q

Feels like this thread needed a soundtrack

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118512532#Comment_118512532

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483932#Comment_118483932

2/10

Rothko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513910#Comment_118513910

Not sure why that second quote by Pussyhands is there. New boards is a bit of a mess.

It's ok, you just needed a hug.

c montgomery

Anyone noticed alot less man bashing in the media since they arrested a foreigner for that murder?

Mad_maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118513719#Comment_118513719

The undermining of men is designed to destabilise society, these prominent feminist activists are Marxists, creating division used to be done through class warfare, now gender is a key weapon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516248#Comment_118516248

Ahh... Marxists wanted to change the social order through chaos... but feminists don't want to destabilise society, because that would make women vulnerable. Destabilisation of society would make the strengths of men more important in that situation. Better to reshape society with rules/laws that benefit them and reduce the opportunities for men to challenge their position. Civilisation and a stable society is better for women overall.

Feminism is based on marxism.. using a range of theories and action plans that were found within that ideology, but it's not Marxism now... and those who claim to be Marxist Feminists, are completely different from what Marx put forward in his theories.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516118#Comment_118516118

Nope. Not really. A return to the regular bashing that went on beforehand. Not quite as in your face but still there nonetheless.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516118#Comment_118516118

Fatigue simply set in. Happens!

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483914#Comment_118483914

This is the best post I’ve read in boards in years. I wish I could thank it more than once.

lawred2

Bad enough listening to McDonkey offering his thoughts on covid.. but who on earth is listening to that oddball's opinion on other societal issues!?

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516318#Comment_118516318

It is a very sober and calming post but did you ever hear about the slippery slope? That's the one outside RTE we men are in danger of going down...

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517794#Comment_118517794

Slippery slope or “thin end of a wedge” arguments butter no parsnips with me.

Liberty_Bear

Ask ourselves as men though, what has brought around this way of thinking. Our behaviours can be considered toxic to women whom feel unsafe in the current environment. The recent news events have made me think of my own behaviours over the years and if I was in anyways toxic. The notion of a course to socialise is a extreme as it evidentially insinuates that men are not capable of socialising which is a falsehood. What we as men can do is to look in and reflect on behaviours that we others might find toxic and hold each other accountable if we see it. My thruppence anyways

Ardent

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516118#Comment_118516118

Big time. It'd be funny if it wasn't so tragically sad.

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516118#Comment_118516118

Its a good earner for the papers so it will be back soon. Articles like that get lots of clicks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517907#Comment_118517907

It's more the case of building momentum for change. Ideas like consent classes have made it into trial runs in various schools in the UK, along with sensitivity training for young people. Each time an issue like this comes along, outrage is expressed, it dies down, but in the background, the activists pushing these kind of ideas gain just a little bit more support to implement their ideas. All the while others tell us not to be bothered or worried, and the changes are slid in without much resistance.

It's the way most social change has happened over the last decade, especially where it relates to Feminist driven change. Rinse and repeat.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519422#Comment_118519422

Jesus, talk about allowing your mind to run away with itself.

What social change has happened in the last decade that has negatively impacted your life?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519444#Comment_118519444

Ahh... TMH... true to form as always. How many cycles of questions would I be in for this time? Nah. I'm good thanks.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118516118#Comment_118516118

No, but I did notice that a thread about the tragic story of a young man who suffered bullying at the hands of his school mates and took his own life has had a total of 37 posts in the 4 days since Prime Time ran a program about it and meanwhile this thread lamenting any sort of suggestion that men can collectively positively impact society, or the one arguing that legislation to prevent hate speech (which includes that of a bullying nature online) are heavily contributed to.

Unsurprisingly for here, a lot of the people who claim to be interested in how men are treated or the mental issues they experience, or whether or not legislation is necessary (they in fact think it will be dangerous) aren't interested in discussing how to stop the practice of bullying which often exists amongst children and results in devastating consequences.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519468#Comment_118519468

Still struggling with the concept of what a discussion board is I see. Maybe Facebook would be more to your taste.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519489#Comment_118519489

I happen to think the solution (in as much as there can be a solution - a strategy that reduces the incidences at least) to bullying is also applying timely and discouraging consequences for that kind of behaviour too tbh.......it wouldn't be going on the national airwaves claiming that all boys are bullies and when they see bullying happening in the schoolyard they should call it out etc ....regardless that the bully may be the local dealers son and already 6ft tall etc

After being the victim of bullying for some of my time in secondary school I also know there is no way any of those cnuts would have been changed by a course...but hey that's just my opinion....although some of them as they got older and got a bit more sense turned into completely different people in that respect.

Having taught for some time in a number of schools I also noticed girls were just as bad as boys .....although not in the same way, they could be as vindictive as hell and like to go for the psychological stuff a lot more ( isolating/excluding/spreading lies etc) - but I suppose that's a sexist thing to say.

Can't even imagine how a school tackles cyber bullying nowadays if parents don't cooperate in instances outside of school......again if its rife I imagine its because it can't be policed properly - hard to apply consequences/actual deterrants if a parent doesn't care.....go through the social media companies??? I'd imagine anything beyond reporting a clear incidence to companies and police and hoping for the best is as much as you can do but open to correction?.....its been a while.....

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118517907#Comment_118517907

Why?

If I was interested in buttering parsnips it would butter mine.

I would have thought there are lots of examples of thin ends of wedges ushering in much larger changes for good and for bad on this earth?

We are always being told how language is powerful and it can be used as a tool of oppression etc.....well that's a two edged sword, it can't be a weapon on one side of the debate and dismissed as irrelevant on the other side.

I think some the hysterical nonsense that went on was not only disrespectful to the victim and other victims but could potentially be damaging if it goes unchallenged......lots of people blithely accept what they hear on the national airwaves and before you know it theres a sizeable core of people that believe the horseshit no matter it seems how demonstrably silly it is......that to me is damaging and there should be a higher standard of accuracy etc.....look at the amount of nitwits that swear blind sleepy Joe as they call him stole the presidency......that's silly but they believe it because their favourite parasite news channel told them so....bet if you traced that back you would find a thin end of wedge somewhere that now represents a pretty big and potentially damaging division in American society.....

Enough morons go on the national airwaves saying men need to stand up and do something backed up by politicians trying to take the path of least resistance and media looking to make hay while the sun shines (many of them beholden to those self same politicians for the early leak/scoop) ....then suddenly there are no dissenting voices.....no one even asks a question at least in public is this really helpful?....Will it work? Will it reduce anxiety or feeling threatened in public places.....would taking a look at people with multiple previous convictions (number in the hundreds) and see if that's contributing, see is there poor resourcing of community policing and maybe strengthen consequences if you are an antisocial asshole, in this case would vetting immigrants have helped.....would those actually achieve anything.....would any of those be more helpful than allowing talking heads (some with axes to grind and others that want to play along so they get to keep playing) to say what to me at least is pretty nonsensical shite that wouldn't fly if it was applied collectively to pretty much any other grouping.

Even if it just helped out that subset of morons that will believe pretty much anything they hear on radio one and Joe Duffy......

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519662#Comment_118519662

Why? Because they don’t stand up to any scrutiny whatsoever.

people here are overreacting. People are being outraged about outrage. It’ll all blow over, because sane people don’t accept it.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519679#Comment_118519679

Fair enough...I was outraged because it was such utter bullshit they were peddling.

Because it was agenda driven and/or out of self interest imo which was not only sickeningly disrespectful but wouldn't solve any of the issues.

The best you could say about it afaic is it was unhelpful.......I dunno, I mean I have no doubt you are correct about it blowing over the news cycle just like time and tide waits for no one but if its filled with divisive unhelpul duplicitous hysteria I don't think that's a good think long term and maybe there should be a reaction other than a shrug.

Despite the fact I will no doubt be ignored or laughed at I intend to lodge a complaint. I think what happened was the opposite of providing a service to the public.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519499#Comment_118519499

Nope. I'm good with a discussion. However, I'm reminded of the last time we had a little chat. It amounted to question from you, answer from me, question from you, answer from me... and endless questions, gradually drifting further and further away from the topic.

So, nah. I'm fine with actual discussions.. not terribly interested in being interrogated with little in the way of actual involvement from you.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519813#Comment_118519813

Furiously ignoring the question about things that have negatively impacted your life in the last ten years.

Your avoidance is telling.

spookwoman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519588#Comment_118519588

Seems to all boil down to the same thing, parents not actually parenting.

Parents are supposed to teach what is right and wrong that includes how to treat other people and watching them to make sure they are not being little shites. Excuses like they need more clubs, classes in schools on how to behave etc is just offloading responsibility again. Maybe it's the parents that need to go to school and learn how to parent.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519910#Comment_118519910

This is why I think the country is probably in for a rough couple of decades, parents arnt or lots of them just ain’t making the effort….

SamStonesArm

Went out tonight . Only to local GAA club.

Got talking to a fella I done a course with about 15 years ago. His niece was with him. I said hello , how ya ? Bit much ?

RabbleRouser2k

Re: The Bullied Young Man

That was genuinely one of the most heartbreaking stories I ever heard. And sweet Eff all will be done about it. Nothing will be said about the parents of those who bullied him, nothing will be challenged, no new 'laws' will be drawn in ... we won't hear a peep out of Joesepha Madigan, Ivana Bacic, Helen McAtee or the likes. We've lost more people last year to suicide, than we have women to 'Violence perpetrated by Men' in 22 years. And that's not me exaggerating. Interestingly, women are often more likely to attempt suicide, too... but you never the woke crew discussing that either. Claim to want to help women, but ignore them unless they fit into the agenda.

The problem with suicide prevention is that much of it goes back to the home, the schools, and also goes back to activities. But cuts made to practically everything, has meant that children are suffering. Schools can barely afford to teach now, and have to do so in freezing conditions. Watching out for bullied pupils is difficult.

zv2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118519958#Comment_118519958

Waaay over the top. You need to talk to McConkey...

AyeGer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520011#Comment_118520011

Yes extremely sad story, it shocked me when I heard about it. Those who bullied him should be social outcasts now but they probably won’t.

zv2

Just for the record "However, Prof McConkey, an elder at the Clontarf Presbyterian church in Dublin, but better known as the head of the Department of International Health and Tropical Medicines at the Royal College of Surgeons, said: “Command and control, and sanction from on high, is not the Presbyterian way.”"

Leading Presbyterian Prof Sam McConkey condemns church’s threat to dismiss Dublin minister (irishtimes.com)

Sorry Sam, I just couldn't resist.

RabbleRouser2k

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520571#Comment_118520571

Nothing will be done. In my experience, the biggest douches in secondary school were often playing for the school clubs, the football, the rugby...you name it. So of course, they weren't called out on their behaviour. To be honest, it was only encouraged. Or ignored. (The coaches tended to be as immature as they were, some even dated girls the same age-not joking.) You couldn't 'discipline' these fellas, cos then they mightn't win the 'trophy' that year.

He was up against it, tragically. If he'd said anything, they'd have more than likely done nothing. This 'zero' tolerance thing you read about in schools... it's rubbish.

zv2

dp

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118520011#Comment_118520011

Eden Heaslip was a young man who took his own life after being bullied by other students. Prime Time gave the opportunity for his parents to talk about what he had suffered and you are using this to have a go at women in general, some women in particular and to show that you don't understand what is happening with respect to legislation.

Helen McEntee is literally in the process of bringing in legislation to target hate speech which is being designed to include hateful messaging on social media platforms, which is a form of bullying many people experience. (Legislation that many who are decrying suggestions that men can help women feel safer also don't want to see introduced by the way).

Why didn't you ask where are the Simon Hariss's, the Stephen Donnelly's the Leo Varadkars? I've frequently said on here that one thing that cannot be disputed with female activists is that they do raise their voice, stand up and support each other. But your post is telling that you see that as a being part of a 'woke crew' or an agenda of some sort. I think that is why we see virtually none of the people who argue on here against women's advocacy or against the hate speech legislation being introduced actually contributing in a positive way to conversations about men and their issues and how they can be helped. They see that sort of thing as being virtue signaling, or woke, or whatever and they would sooner suffer themselves and continue with others of their gender suffering rather than have to put in the effort calling for meaningful change or have it so that people can say that they are woke/virtue signaling etc.

The young (and old) men of the country would be in a much better position if those who claim to be concerned that no one is fighting for them actually put effort in to doing just that instead of only using them and their suffering and pain in an attempt to stop others advocating for women. We saw the same thing earlier in this thread with Michael Tormey's name being used only to try to get people to stop talking about Aisling Murphy. I for one don't believe that those who used his name on here stopped to think about his family for a second but only saw an opportunity to deflect from the suffering of the Murphy family. Shameful behaviour if you ask me.

arthursway

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522300#Comment_118522300

These feminists you speak so fondly of could you ask them why do they go missing when the topic of biological males being allowed to dominate female sports comes up?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118522345#Comment_118522345

Two things to say about this.

Firstly, thanks for giving another example of where all of a sudden men are concerned about womens sports only when they can use it to fight another demon in their eyes, that of trans rights. I would suspect that the reason women don't comment so much about this is because for the most part, it is not a big issue in that the number of trans people who actually do this is very small in the greater scheme of things. I am actually of the opinion that testosterone benefits pre-transition cannot always be overcome and I suspect if the numbers dominating, as you say were problematic, then women in general would look at this and act in their greater interests.

Secondly, if you weren't scared of the concept of feminists, maybe you could ask them yourself.

cokeiscrap

If the number 1 selling brand in this country get to jump on another band wagon, then they would probably ask for men to have a licence to socialise.

In the last couple of years they dismissed a male employee because a female colleague made an unproven allegation against him.

The female instead of going to the police authorities, decided instead to go to her boss claiming that she had been sexually assaulted/raped.

What was equally as disturbing, was that the WRC upheld the decision by the company and said the alleged(unproven) event had only happened because they were at a company social event and therefore was considered work. The WRC failed to take into account that the company supplied them with free alcoholic beverages for most of the event. Of course this shouldn't matter if the alleged incident took place, of which there was no proof of this.

Even the males legal team were astounded at the decision as they had advised him that it was not a work related incident and advised him to answer no comment to any question that they had deemed non work related. This was unbelievably seen by the WRC as not proving his innocence.

The full case can be found in the WRC decisions if you search for Beverage company.

Pawwed Rig

Work nights out are always considered as work and have been for decades.

cokeiscrap

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118528170#Comment_118528170

I wonder are you confusing work nights out, where it would be optional to attend, rather than team-building events that normally would take place during worktime to ensure that everyone attends? No one that was at the function where this alleged assault took place was forced to be there. Apart from HR and management, who would be expected to be at the Christmas party to try and show the "workers" that they really are all a team 🤡 🤡

Where/when does the Work night out end? Is it when the free bar closes if there is one or is it when the venue closes? Is the company responsible for getting you to the event if you have gone home/somewhere else to change into your casual/going out clothes? Are they also responsible for ensuring your safe journey home after the event?

If the night out is held in a hotel are you forced to stay there, even if there is a reduced rate for employees or are you able to decide to go to your own residence? If you decide to stay in the hotel, why would it be the responsibility of the employer to ensure your safety when they have long ended the free meal, free (alcoholic)drinks, band and the banqueting hall has been cleared. What if you then decide that you have not had enough of the partying and festivities and because you are staying at the hotel, you decide to continue your nights activities by deciding to avail of the residents bar? Is the company you work for still responsible for your actions and safety? If they are, would they not also be responsible for supplying you with intoxicating substances at your place of work? Surely this is illegal and needs to be investigated by the H.S.A. as the WRC deemed the alleged assault to have occurred due to the actions of the employer in holding the event and providing hotel rooms at a reduced rate.

It was after all this that the alleged incident took place and where I believe the WRC overstepped its governance. Maybe I am wrong, but surely everyone is entitled to the presumption of innocent until proved guilty.

Why wasn't the incident reported to the police? I have no logical understanding of why someone would rather go to their boss/shift manager to make a complaint as serious as sexual assault/rape rather than the policing authorities. Then, if the authorities believed there was a case to answer, then take disciplinary action against the employee that had been accused of this vile offence and have a final decision delayed regarding their employment until all criminal charges had been processed and a court decision arrived at.

A work night out organised and/or paid/subsidised by a company is considered work. Always has. Surprised your buddies solicitors didn't know that.

Also, you cannot force any victims to report a crime! Jesus, what sort of country would that be.

Pawwed Rig

Is your company responsible for getting you into work and home again safely? Of course not. I assume they hired adults for a reason

Potential-Monke

A man in Germany successfully claimed a workplace accident claim when he fell down his stairs going to his home office... I'm sure leaving the house and driving there would also be covered if this is the indication of things to come.

Is this the latest 'men can't be trusted' thing?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538291#Comment_118538291

No, it's the latest 'fella thinks he shouldn't be held accountable for his actions' thing.

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118538269#Comment_118538269

There are all sorts of crazy laws around the world that don't apply here. We are talking about Ireland