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Mandatory vaccination in Ireland

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭ Gortanna


    The US has an amazing constitution and is known as 'the land of the free'. I'm talking purely in terms of freedom.


    Britain has a rich culture and history of liberty. Manga Carta, Bill of Rights etc.


    It's no coincidence that England has the fewest restrictions in the whole of Europe. It's also no coincidence that vaccine passports were immediately banned in loads of states in the US. They are un-American in the eyes of many Americans. They are in place in several US states, but the US is a country made up of many different countries.


    Vaccine passports aren't un-Irish because there's no such thing as 'un-Irish'. Similarly, mandatory vaccination wouldn't be 'un-Irish'. It might be objected to, but not because it was 'un-Irish'.


    So I'm talking purely in terms of freedom when I say that the US and England/Britain are proper countries. And a person can point that out without necessarily liking everything about the countries.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,465 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    So how do American citizens go about changing that wonderful constitution then? The can't because unlike Ireland and Switzerland they don't have a sovereign people. Not to mention the interpretation of said constitution by a packed supreme court (D or R depending on who holds sway at the time).

    And in the UK how can a citizen prevent parliament from doing an unconstitutional act? They can't, their constitution is unwritten, their head of state is unelected, their upper house is unelected and consequently their parliament not their people is sovereign. But given the recent interference by both the Queen and Prince Charles, that is even in some doubt.

    Have you heard of the Queens Prerogative? It a convention used by their Prime Minister to subvert parliament and allows him to directly implement legislation. Then there is the FOI reports that show both the Queen and Prince Charles have both interfered with the operation of parliament in recent times to their advantage....

    Oh and the Magna Carta, well fat lot of good that will do you as pretty much all of it's provisions were repealed by the mid 1800s

    You have a lot to learn about 'Real Countries' as you call them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 184 ✭✭ erlichbachman


    Gortanna is right, we suck as a country, our only identity is that of a leprechaun in a green suit, admit it people, as a country we are a walkover, this pandemic is proof, the country is full of people who would buy bag of muck if they were told it was gold.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭ Gortanna


    They rely on convention and a long history of liberty being a bulwark against tyranny. The reason vaccine passports were banned in loads of US states is because they were considered to be 'un-American'.


    I mentioned Magna Carta and the 1698 Bill of Rights in the context of that rich history and culture of liberty I mentioned.


    Why has it not once been said about any of the restrictions in Ireland that they were 'un-Irish'? It's because the concept doesn't exist. There's no history or culture of liberty in Ireland. Quite the opposite, in fact. That's why Ireland isn't capable of being independent. No sooner did it gain independence than it gave a lot of it away to the EU and became a province of it. But, as another poster pointed out, that's what the vast majority of the public wants, and so it won't change.


    And I called them 'proper countries', not 'real countries'.


    And to get back on topic, it will be interesting to see what happens in the US in terms of mandatory vaccination.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,372 ✭✭✭ Dav010


    I think there are a few African Americans/Latinos who would disagree with your description of the US. Strikingly, opinions on vaccines and Covid seems to in some way be divided on party lines. I think you should look at the numbers of infections/deaths in the US.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭ Gortanna


    But I say that's it known as 'the land of the free' (actually I don't think I wrote 'known as'. I should have), not that that has always been the case in reality. I point it it being known as 'the land of the free' to show why I believe vaccine passports were banned all across the US. It's because they were considered to be 'un-American' as a result of their being contra to the idea of 'the land of the free'.


    You're right of course to say that many people in the US wouldn't agree that the US has always lived up to being the 'land of the free', and it clearly hasn't, but my point was more about measures being unacceptable in two countries that have long traditions of liberty. Because they were 'un-American' and 'un-British' respectively.


    And then there's Sweden. This article explains well, I think, why Sweden went the way it did: What we can learn from the Swedish paradox - UnHerd


    And again, to link what I'm saying to mandatory vaccination, it will be interesting to see what happens in both the US and England.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles


    All 50 states have/had vaccine mandates in some shape or form before Covid, all 50 states now have vaccine mandates in some shape or form for Covid. Private companies are actually introducing their own vaccine mandates, it's wall to wall vaccine mandates over there.

    The UK are introducing vaccine mandates for certain health care workers in April.

    Da fuq that has to do with the 'Land of the Free' or the 'Magna Carta' is anyone's guess.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,907 ✭✭✭ Cluedo Monopoly


    I think the point about the 800 year old Magna Carta is that it was ahead of it's time and groundbreaking. The Magna Carta was widely considered a huge inspiration for the declaration of Independence which was also ahead of its time. I don't think the poster is saying that the Magna Carta is relevant now for vaccine mandates but I understand his point. That's my guess.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭ Gortanna


    That's exactly my point. Thanks. Unfortunately you have to explain things over and over again on here.


    Note how Boggles left out the bit about vaccine passports being banned in lots of states. And also about how there are many exemptions contained in those mandates.


    Neil Oliver put it best when he said that "the world needs America, or at least needs the idea of America". It's the "idea of America" I'm talking about. The idea of 'the land of the free'. And I stress again that liking what the words 'land of the free' stand for does not mean that one necessarily likes everything about the US. I certainly don't. But I do agree with Neil Oliver that the US is a great hope for the world.



  • Registered Users Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles


    The topic of the thread is mandatory vaccination, not vaccine passports.

    The "Land of the Free" is wall to wall mandatory vaccines and have been for years and have introduced wide sweeping covid mandatory vaccination.

    Ireland has done no such thing or have any plans to, but we are terrible, something, something.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,465 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    More soft-selling of mandatory vaccination in yesterday's Irish Times.

    This makes me think that we're being prepared for it, though its only one indication on its own.



  • Registered Users Posts: 31,152 ✭✭✭✭ is_that_so


    Aren't these just Op-ed pieces? That's not an indication of government plans. Contrary to what some posters think you can't just introduce this with a quick bit of legislation or an SI. Even if it was planned, in practice it would take months to get to that point and September next would be about as early as it might begin its passage through the Oireachtas,



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭ PommieBast


    At this stage the only practical solution is to just let Omicron rip through the unvaccinated population. I doubt any sort of vaccination policy (mandatory or otherwise) will get them all jabbed up before they get infected.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,883 ✭✭✭✭ Cuddlesworth


    In the States, larger private companies are getting hit hard this year by their health and life insurance premiums and I wouldn't be surprised if a significant majority of them mandate vaccines internally regardless of any Federal or State mandates.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ Raichu


    How can your immune system fight a virus you have no immunity to?

    Vaccines work. That’s a fact. The vaccine at present is not as effective against Omi, no problem, by March they have a new version deigned for Omi ready.

    not quite unlike the flu..



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,577 ✭✭✭✭ Mrs OBumble


    The vaccine is helping overall: hospital numbers are high but manageable.

    But if the vaccine was fit for purpose, then there would not be so very many vaccinated people getting Covid.

    And some people must be immune: there are lots of cases where unvaccinated people had had household-contact exposure (even sharing a bed or bedroom), but didn't get sick.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,526 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Pawwed Rig


    The death rate is well down and the ICUs are disproportionately filled by the unvaccinated. It takes wilful ignorance or conspiracy theories for anyone to say vaccines are not helping



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  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ Raichu


    I’m not discussing whether the vaccine works or not, this is not open to debate. It’s scientific fact.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,465 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    The "newspaper of record" softening people up for it is significant in my opinion. Look at the Board of Trustees for the IT its a who's who of establishment people, they are hand in glove with the people who run this country.

    I didn't say it would be easy to introduce or would happen overnight.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,465 ✭✭✭ growleaves


    That's happened already hasn't it? I know plenty people vacc'd and unvacc'd who have gotten Omicron and recovered.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭ PommieBast


    I'd say its happening rather than happened. Cases have just about peaked here in London but they are still on the up everywhere else in Europe.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,253 ✭✭✭ Risteard81




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,688 ✭✭✭✭ Bass Reeves


    All the Magna Carta did was transfer some rights from a single individual to a small group of individuals. It did [email protected]@k for the lad ploughing the field he was still a serf or a virtual indentured slave The peasants revolts of the 1300's started the end of serfdom but it did not disappear in the UK until 1500's.

    It was actually bought in by the Normans. The Celtic people of Ireland and Scotland did not have serfdom. That was why the English invasion of Ireland was opposed so much by the ordinary people.

    When serfs became free in the 1500's there ability to vote was hampered unless they had rateable valuations above a limit so the house of commons was elected by the midsized landholders and country gentleman, but the house of lords still had huge sway until it power was limited by the liberals government with the King signing off on it in the early 1900's.

    So your theory on the Magna Carta is just a load of rubbish

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,075 ✭✭✭ patnor1011


    I think there is hardly anyone out there who never had simple cold.

    Previous cold infection is considered to be quite more effective against omicron than covid vaccine.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,150 ✭✭✭ Higgins5473


    spot on, but the “the paper of record” tag is long gone. Some of the utter drivel they are printing and putting online would make the British red tops blush with embarrassment. Jeremy Kyle-esque stories and headlines. It’s shamelessly just a government promo pamphlet now mixed in with some bulky Harvey Norman or Eir garbage advertisements. Even the sports pages are sh*te now, how hard is it to get that right but they still manage to make a balls of it or have woke agenda of the week rammed down your throat in the middle of a match report from Yeovil Town vs Grimsby or some such sh*t game. Awful publication.



  • Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭ Raichu


    Okay, let me phrase it again.

    I’m not discussing it. Anyone else is free to, of course, but I’m not going to discuss whether or not the vaccine works, because it does. How well it does/doesn’t work again Omi is a whole other topic.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 33,486 ✭✭✭✭ Boggles


    Huh? How could they possible know that?

    I assume everyone has had a previous 'cold infection' whether vaccinated or not.



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